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Metcalf & 65kg discussion

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Not sure how you could say he'd likely medal up a weight, when he's never been able to medal at his normal wrestling weight.  It would be EASIER for him to go up, wrestler bigger athletes and succeed?  

Given that he wins on grinding on his opponent and wearing them down, how do you suppose that would go vs bigger/stronger wrestlers?  

I'd bet it wouldn't go so well.

i didnt say that that. i'm saying Green beat Costa Rica, Slovakia, India and Kirov of Bulgaria to win bronze. i think Metcalf could probably beat those guys too. 

 

what does that mean? probably not much. just underlying the point that you can't read too much into WC performances when they are random draws with uneven brackets. Safaryan was a gold medalist in 2013 and has gone 2-2 since. 

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LJB,

 

At what point in the match did Pico even remotely threaten to score an offensive point?  Metcalf was the distinct aggressor(albeit there wasn't a ton of action) and was never in any danger of being scored on.  To me, that is controlling the match.  Pico wrestled to keep the score close by tight, inside collar ties and snap downs to minimize Metcalf's offense without creating any actual offense of his own..................The fact that he got chippy at the end and gave up a penalty point leads me to believe he felt the same way I did...................

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i don't disagree with any of that... what that match showed was that metcalf is not physically superior to pico... and you could see pico realize that in the match...

 

my point is that metcalf still wrestles exactly like that... he has not changed... pico has shown a marked improvement in his game since that match... he is only getting better while metcalf is staying the same... 

 

the pico from the bronze medal match at juniors is the favorite at 65... not even a question in my mind

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Herbert's performance was hilarious. Talking all that stuff about how he's going to beat Sadulaev and how he doesn't care about losing to Salas at 400 different events because only the world championships matter and that's where he's going to turn it on. Saying that he's the bad draw. Then he goes out there and loses instantly. It was pretty funny. He was still going on about how he can beat Sadulaev after the event was over. 

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Guest Kingsland

Herbert's performance was hilarious. Talking all that stuff about how he's going to beat Sadulaev and how he doesn't care about losing to Salas at 400 different events because only the world championships matter and that's where he's going to turn it on. Saying that he's the bad draw. Then he goes out there and loses instantly. It was pretty funny. He was still going on about how he can beat Sadulaev after the event was over. 

When did he say that after the event?

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I wish them (Herbert and Humpreys) well, but think that this year's World's was their last hooraw. I am more concerned in seeing who is going to rise up and take command of these two weight classes. Will Gabe Dean be the guy, will David Taylor pack on enough muscle, and still be a dominate force to be reckoned with. Will it be Clayton Foster? Will Mcintosh drop down? Will it be someone else? Likewise the same thing at 61Kg. Will it be Jimmy Kennedy? Will it be a new kid, will it be Kendrick Maple?

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I thought Ruth was progressing pretty well for you guys, he did better at 2014 worlds against a better opponent even in his loss than Herbert did here in this tournament. But it seems like he's lost interest and is focused on MMA, which i'd suspect is the reason for his performances against Herbert. I've even heard that he's totally done and isn't even going on until Rio which was the original plan. Anyone know if that's true? 

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Herbert made some 'confident' tweets and he has confidence in himself but i didn't here him talking a lot of "stuff" or whatever. 

 

mostly i just think 86kg is a super deep weight class world wide and Herbert ran into one of many out there that are better him (and everyone else in the USA at the moment). was 2-0 after the 1st period but Jake never got close. The Georgian was tough too. i think i remember him trying to wrestle for 3rd with his arm half attached and the trainers trying to get him to quit. 

 

with 61 being non Olympic I would think this is Humphrey's last national team, which is too bad because he is fun to watch. I don't know who takes out Herbert for Rio though. I would have bet money on Ruth after 2014 but have no idea what Ruth's plans are. Dean is intriguing and a physical monster but very untested in freestyle. one of the more interesting storylines going into the 86kg team trials for sure. 

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The draw at these tournaments, where no one is seeded, can certainly alter the chances at getting a medal, and Metcalf's path was formidable, to say the least.

 

Metcalf, ranked #2 going in, had #1, 3, 5, and 6 ranked guys in his half of bracket, before even reaching finals. On the other side of the 65kg bracket, where Boris Novachkov was (former Cal Poly, wrestling for Bulgaria), there were half as many wrestlers (16 vs 32) and the highest ranked was #8. 

 

At 70 kg, Green had a smaller bracket (32 wrestlers vs 48 at 65kg), and he faced 3 unranked wrestlers in his first 3 matches, then lost to #7 ranked Iranian, followed by a win over #9 Bulgarian.

Rosie,

 

If we're going to go by rankings, you have to remember a couple of things.   

 

First of all, Brent wrestled a total of 1 wrestler ranked above him and he lost.   And it's not like the guy was ranked 10 spots above Brent, it was only 1 spot.   You have to win those matches at worlds Rosie. 

 

Furthermore, the highest ranked wrestler he defeated was in the 20's iirc. 

 

That's the brutal draw he got?  

 

That's the draw that led to another DNP?

 

Green beat a Much higher ranked wrestler than Brent did all tournament (#9) 

 

 

It's fun to say well if he had won the tournament he would  have had to go through all those hammers but the fact is he didn't go through a single hammer, losing to the first one he ran into and many believe he lost to the Chinese.  

 

I'm all for Metcalf getting the spot next year, I just don't believe he is good enough.   

Edited by Cletus_Tucker

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65 was loaded with all the guys sucking down from 70 to try to qualify the weight for the olympics. i think there were lots of guys at 65 who could have medaled at 70. 

 

but thats neither here nor there. we could spin round this topic forever. more important topics now, like anybody going overseas before the Bill Farrell? when do we here who is going to New York and/or Baku? is Metcalf definitely going to Frisco for the Pan AM OG qualifier? who picks our rep? 

 

i'm happy retiring the hypotheticals for now. 

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you're funny cletus=suzie

 

you are right about the guy that beat Metcalf being "only 1 spot higher,"  .... it was #2 vs #1 in the round of 16.

 

it may be hard for you to grasp, but it is impossible to get beat by a guy "10 spots higher" when you are ranked #2

 

but then this is all a charade for you anyway, like suzie (your former persona) you dislike Metcalf, Ramos, Iowa, Brands, and can turn logic inside out to trash them. 

 

but let's pretend anyway.... say it with me.... "go Brent go!"   

 

Rosie,

 

If we're going to go by rankings, you have to remember a couple of things.   

 

First of all, Brent wrestled a total of 1 wrestler ranked above him and he lost.   And it's not like the guy was ranked 10 spots above Brent, it was only 1 spot.   You have to win those matches at worlds Rosie. 

 

Furthermore, the highest ranked wrestler he defeated was in the 20's iirc. 

 

That's the brutal draw he got?  

 

That's the draw that led to another DNP?

 

Green beat a Much higher ranked wrestler than Brent did all tournament (#9) 

 

 

It's fun to say well if he had won the tournament he would  have had to go through all those hammers but the fact is he didn't go through a single hammer, losing to the first one he ran into and many believe he lost to the Chinese.  

 

I'm all for Metcalf getting the spot next year, I just don't believe he is good enough.   

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you're funny cletus=suzie

 

you are right about the guy that beat Metcalf being "only 1 spot higher,"  .... it was #2 vs #1 in the round of 16.

 

it may be hard for you to grasp, but it is impossible to get beat by a guy "10 spots higher" when you are ranked #2

 

but then this is all a charade for you anyway, like suzie (your former persona) you dislike Metcalf, Ramos, Iowa, Brands, and can turn logic inside out to trash them. 

 

but let's pretend anyway.... say it with me.... "go Brent go!"   

 

 

 

that's my point, Rosie.    

 

This brutal draw he got, included only 1 guy ranked 1 spot higher than him.   That's the brutal draw you're speaking of?  He's the 2nd ranked guy in the world, he's supposed to be the bad draw for everyone but the Iranian.  

 

If he was ranked 11th, and the Iranian was 10 spots above him, I could see your point.   But that wasn't the case. 

 

The reality is he got a sweet draw.   An inferior first round opponent, a guy 20 or so spots lower than him in the 2nd round, and then his only true test, the guy ranked 1 spot ahead of him.   Brent still manages to DNP.  

 

Will you stop making excuses and instead lets admit Brent has a ways to go before he can get on the medal stand?  It's actually something many on this board are finally doing and it's sparked good discussion.   If we can get Brent to seek additional coaching, something to make him a bit dynamic, something where the predictable and increasingly less effective style can expand into a more successful offensive approach, he might just be able to get to the next level.   Will you ever admit that Rosie, or are you just hell bent on going down with the sinking ship?

 

Rosie, I've been a Metcalf fan ever since the series of defeats (Pan Ams, US World team trials, NCAA finals) followed by Gable coming out and telling us he was battling his demons and needed to get over it and find happiness.  The image of a dejected, defeated, and unhappy Brent Matcalf with the family dog stuck with me, and I've wished for him nothing but success.   We've watched others pass him by, while he just spins his wheels, season after season.   This year we had to agonize as newbs to the world scene captured medals (Snyder, Green) and Brent suffers a 4th consecutive DNP.   

 

You may not care, instead your focus seems to be following me around, making excuses for Brent, and failing to see the big picture.   And that's fine, that is what you've amounted to.  But stop trying to bring the rest of us down with your negativity.  

 

Right now I am on record, if Brent does not find a way to improve, He's not beating Pico.   

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Who thought he lost to the Chinese? I was there and I sure didn't think he lost I thought he showed a huge amount of toughness in not giving up the TD in the last 10 seconds or so.

 

 

Shoot, most of the arena.   If you were there (and I doubt that seriously) you know everyone was glued to the replay screen and speculating on whether it was 2 or not.   When he posted on his head, there was a collective roar and discussion, as fans and foes tried to determine if that meant victory or defeat.   

 

I have no idea how you missed that, perhaps you were drunk?

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Shoot, most of the arena.   If you were there (and I doubt that seriously) you know everyone was glued to the replay screen and speculating on whether it was 2 or not.   When he posted on his head, there was a collective roar and discussion, as fans and foes tried to determine if that meant victory or defeat.   

 

I have no idea how you missed that, perhaps you were drunk?

 

cletus = suzie....everyone was watching the replay because it was a close call. From the stands one had a hard time seeing if Metcalf's knees touched the mat, as it was mere inches. They didn't touch, so no takedown and a win for Metcalf. Don't make it sound like the Chinese guy got robbed. It was a close but correct call. 

 

Your second strategy to belittle Metcalf consists of making the Chinese opponent sound like a nobody because he was unranked. You ignore the fact that in his match prior to Metcalf, the Chinese guy beat the #6 ranked guy from Turkey by TF. Metcalf may have had a concussion early in the match and still managed to win. Your response?  Belittling the win in any way possible.

 

I'm sure you'll come up with something else cletus=suzie, because trashing Metcalf, Brands, Ramos or anything Iowa related is what you do on this board.

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Personally I hope Metcalf gets on the  Olympic team and gets to experience the Olympics for a fitting send off. Sure, the guy has never won anything internationally. But no shows more heart year after year than Metcalf. If someone has please tell me their name. Will he medal at the Olympics? Let's not get crazy. But as a huge fan of the guy it would make me happy just to see him have the Olympic experience. 

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cletus = suzie....everyone was watching the replay because it was a close call. From the stands one had a hard time seeing if Metcalf's knees touched the mat, as it was mere inches. They didn't touch, so no takedown and a win for Metcalf. Don't make it sound like the Chinese guy got robbed. It was a close but correct call. 

 

Your second strategy to belittle Metcalf consists of making the Chinese opponent sound like a nobody because he was unranked. You ignore the fact that in his match prior to Metcalf, the Chinese guy beat the #6 ranked guy from Turkey by TF. Metcalf may have had a concussion early in the match and still managed to win. Your response?  Belittling the win in any way possible.

 

I'm sure you'll come up with something else cletus=suzie, because trashing Metcalf, Brands, Ramos or anything Iowa related is what you do on this board.

 

 

There you go again.   

 

I happen to think the Chinese is a fantastic wrestler and competitor.   Go ahead and pick, you want to go by this standard, or you want to go by ranking?   Because when it fits your narrative, you want to go by rankings.   But when it doesn't, you want to ignore the ranking.   Which one is it, and we'll go by that one?

 

For the record, the Chinese is someone i will look out for in the future, as I believe he is a fantastic talent.   I just don't get your brutal draw assessment.   Brent is the #2 ranked wrestler in the world.   he is supposed to crush guys (see match 1) instead he's pushed to the brink and then eliminated. 

 

Ramos is starting to grow on me.  Don't make me out to be a Ramos hater.   If he can just shed that embarrassing school boy, mean mugging he does, I could really start supporting the guy.   When Bonne went down, I actually felt Ramos might win the next bout and contend for a medal.   Of course that did not happen, but the point remains, I was on the edge of my seat, cheering for the guy.   The large Mexican contingent was going ballistic and, drowning out even the Iranians and of course the unenthusiastic American crowd.  

 

I don't know what it is with you Rosie,

 

it's like you live to play the victim.   

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