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Snyder & 97kg discussion

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Here's a non-troll, real question and proposed answer about draws.

 

What's the worst draw for a given individual? 

 

Proposed Answer (forgive me if this is obvious or obviously wrong): an early round match with someone who can beat you with people who can likely beat him nearby so that you don't get pulled into repechage. 

 

This seems reasonable enough until you think about some consequences. If this is right then Snyder getting Gadisov first round might be a better draw than Olynik. If think think Snyder is less than 50/50  But a worse draw would be Olynik first round then winner meets Gadisov. 

 

So then what's a really good draw? Assuming you can't dominate everyone but one person (who you would like to meet in the finals) then if you have to meet someone who might beat you, you want that person to have a clear path to the finals. 

 

That's how I think of it, so now the question is, is Snyder's draw based on that a good one? Seems like he might or might not be up to beating Olynik. If he loses to him, does he (Olynik) need to make the finals to pull Snyder in? Is that likely? 

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Here's a non-troll, real question and proposed answer about draws.

 

What's the worst draw for a given individual? 

 

Proposed Answer (forgive me if this is obvious or obviously wrong): an early round match with someone who can beat you with people who can likely beat him nearby so that you don't get pulled into repechage. 

 

 

If your goal is the win bronze, that is the worst draw.  If your goal is to win gold, then facing the top guy in round 1 (with many other difficult challenges in the subsequent rounds if you somehow survive) is the worst.

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It shouldn't matter what the draw is. We should have athletes that can hang with the best of them on any given day and not depend on a favorable pick to get into the medal rounds.

If you are Sadulaev it doesn't matter, but for anyone who could lose before the semifinals, it matters a lot to get drawn back in.

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It shouldn't matter what the draw is. We should have athletes that can hang with the best of them on any given day and not depend on a favorable pick to get into the medal rounds.

You say we should, but why should we?  We don't even wrestle the same style for the majority of our competing career.  How are we expected to beat people consistently who have focused only on freestyle?

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You say we should, but why should we?  We don't even wrestle the same style for the majority of our competing career.  How are we expected to beat people consistently who have focused only on freestyle?

It is totally accepted in Tennis that different people excel in varying degrees on different surfaces (clay, grass, hard court).  Each surface makes for a slightly different game even though the rules are identical.  If a guy (or a country) excels on one surface, that is not odd.  It is assumed they must practice that surface most. 

 

Our guys practice and compete for Folkstyle for their whole life.  It is not surprising we are usually best at that style.  It is not surprising that when all of our best coaches spend all of their time innovating and teaching in that style, we lack technically in other styles.  

 

It is also not surprising that as Americans we think we deserve to be the best anyways and we disparage our athletes who are not the best.  

 

Good luck to every USA wrestler this weekend.

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It is totally accepted in Tennis that different people excel in varying degrees on different surfaces (clay, grass, hard court).  Each surface makes for a slightly different game even though the rules are identical.  If a guy (or a country) excels on one surface, that is not odd.  It is assumed they must practice that surface most. 

 

Our guys practice and compete for Folkstyle for their whole life.  It is not surprising we are usually best at that style.  It is not surprising that when all of our best coaches spend all of their time innovating and teaching in that style, we lack technically in other styles.  

 

It is also not surprising that as Americans we think we deserve to be the best anyways and we disparage our athletes who are not the best.  

 

Good luck to every USA wrestler this weekend.

Exactly. It's why it is kind of sad that we don't appreciate guys like Burroughs more.  They come along only once in a while. 

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Pretty uneventful match.  Snyder got deep a few times, but Ukranian's length didn't allow for an easy finish.  Snyder's positioning and defense looked great.  The shot clock points were warranted.

Edited by ohcomeon

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It's amazing how much more people talk about the wins then the losses.

 

Great win for his first time out.  He will obviously need to open up more in the coming matches.  

 Not necessarily. If  you have been watching, many of the guys who are defensive win.  They only point the UKR scored was when Snyder fully committed.   

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So you think he can keep winning without ever fully committing?

Depends on the match and how it is going.  He man not have to open up to win.  Opening up is not always the answer. His level changes and fakes may be enough.  On the hand, that also may open up attacks for him.  If  you look at the UKR match, it was the passivity of the UKR that made it necessary for Snyder to hold back.  If another opponent opens up, that may make it possible for Snyder to open up successfully.  

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If Snyder doesn't open up more, he will lose. He is not as good at playing the defensive, mistake-free game that the elite guys can play safely. He is at his best when on the offensive, and he needs to be at his very best to even have a shot at winning.

It's easy to say he should open up, but that could leave him more vulnerable to an attack.  He wrestled in a very controlled style like this to beat Varner.  The Ukranian that he just beat is very talented.  

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Opening up does not mean getting irresponsible.  Snyder had 3-4 times he could have tried to score off a bad shot by the Ukrainian.  Instead he just pushed his hips back with both arms.  He needs to try to score 2 there.  1 point scores are too easily overcome.  So he can open up and try to score without risking his Hi-C on a taller and longer opponent.

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It's easy to say he should open up, but that could leave him more vulnerable to an attack.  He wrestled in a very controlled style like this to beat Varner.  The Ukranian that he just beat is very talented.  

 

Varner is no longer one of the wold-level elites. The Ukrainian was very good, but not the top guy Snyder needs to beat to win. .

 

I'm not saying it's easy. That's why I had Snyder as a guy who wouldn't likely medal in my predictions. (Of course, I also said Metcalf would medal, so what the hell do I know....)

 

That said, his best shot at winning is playing to your strengths, not adjusting your style to counter the other guy's strengths. He should just go for it. He has nothing to lose and only experience to gain. Very young stud with miles and miles of career left ahead of him.

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