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Katie

Ramos & 57kg discussion

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I really beleive that the majority of USA wrestlers and coaches do not understand the dynamics of interanational wrestling.  I've seen far too many Americans do dumb things at the end of matches when they had a victory and lose.  The coaches need to see this.  The best wrestlers in international competition are smart and that is why they win.  They rarely put themselves in bad positions when winning.  USA seems to like to get in bad positions when all they have to do is is be patient.

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Dumb move aside Ramos going forward is our guy and probably our best shot since Cejudo. Like Cejudo he needs a little seasoning, get a game plan, and execute. Easier said than done of course. But I like him a lot..... wouldn't have said that this time last year. 

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Ramos wrestled freaking awesome in that match.  

I say he wrestled stupid in that match.  Not folkstyle.  He had it in the bag and took an un-needed risk.  Your top world performers would never do that.  He just had to defend and he would have evened up the cautions and got a point with seconds left in the match.

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I think that's right, but there was some debate over an exchange in Metcalf-Oliver vs. How the situation was officiated in the Euro championships.

Yes, if there is action going on, they are not supposed to stop action and let the situation develop.  In Ramos' case, if he would have done nothing but hang on, it would have become a stalemate type of situation or time would have expired.

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I think a folkstyle mindset hurt Ramos.  He wanted to score when merely preventing his opponent from scoring would likely have won it.  Ramos is good and could be very good.  He has the size and tools.  And we know he has the heart.  

Edited by silver-medal

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I think a folkstyle mindset hurt Ramos.  He wanted to score when merely preventing his opponent from scoring would likely have won it.  Ramos is good and could be very good.  He has the size and tools.  And we know he has the heart.  Gotta get away from Iowa to train.  Sorry...true.  

That has nothing to do with Folkstyle.  Ramos often did nothing in Folkstyle.  He just made a tactical error.  The good news is he is clearly still ascending.  We have had nothing at this weight for a good long while (since cejudo) and he looks like at least a medal contender (not necessarily a favorite) next year. 

 

Hopefully he gets pulled back in and can qualify the weight.

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Give it me straight, does Rahimi have any kind of shot?

 

I would say it is unlikely, especially if the refs continue to let Ledbedev get by without trying to score at all.  It will be two extremely tough, but winnable matches for Rahimi

 

 

I say he wrestled stupid in that match.  Not folkstyle.  He had it in the bag and took an un-needed risk.  Your top world performers would never do that.  He just had to defend and he would have evened up the cautions and got a point with seconds left in the match.

 

Technically awesome and tactically stupid.  Obviously can't get rid of 20+ years of folkstyle instincts. 

Edited by GoNotQuietly

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And that is why he is not advancing.  I've watched international wrestling for over 45 years and the tactically smart guys are usually on the podium.  A lot of good folkstyle guys have figured it out over time.  It really is a different sport.  I'm more concerned about the coaching than the athletes.  I've seen way too many matches this year in which an American did something to lose instead of holding on to win.  They do this crap in the NCAAs and State tournaments.  Why not do it it international competion?  It works for Russia, Iran and the Stans!

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So what exactly is the rule with the 30 seconds? They went well beyond that time.

 

First, it looked like the passivity clock expired because Rahimi did not secure a takedown and both wrestlers were in more of a stalemate than a scramble.

 

But then it looked like the sequence should have been scored 2-2 - exposure for Ramos and take down for Rahimi. I guess I will have to look at the replay to be sure. What a tough loss for Ramos.

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I am not sure where the idea comes from that being over aggressive is a Folkstyle thing.  There is just as much stalling, blocking off, and tactical wrestling in Folkstyle.  Ramos' entire senior year he took no risks and played for low scoring wins against every decent opponent.  He is not a go-go-go wrestler unless it is a lower level opponent he can bully.

 

He messed up and made a late tactical mistake.  Hopefully he learns from it.  It has nothing to do with Folkstyle.  

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Yes, but I mistyped when I said tactically stupid, because the entire rest of the match was tactically beautiful he just f-ed up in that once position, which obviously cost him the match.  Boconnell is right though, it's not even a folkstyle thing as much as a knowing the intricacies of the rules thing. 

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I guess what I'm saying is that in interantional wrestling you need more situation awareness than in folkstyle.  You have to always know the score and the caution situation.  In this match, Ramos did not need to take the risk.  He had the match in the bag if he would have squared his hips.  His opponent is probablly still laughing in the locker room that his opponenet gave him an easy out.  International wrestling is more patient and tactical IMO, more so than technique. 

 

I get your point about the folkstlye and you are correct.  Guys will win how they have to win.  I guess I'm sick of watching USA wrestlers that lose in the last seconds because they did stuff that they didn't need to do.  That is on the coaches as far as I'm concerned.

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