LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 FWIW, not everyone without a degree is digging ditches... and not everyone who has a degree is doing just fine... if a degree falls in line with your priorities then that is great... if it doesn't, then it is a waste of time and money and just contributing to the waste that is this countries educational system that is without a doubt more about making money than educating our population... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishhook 142 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 That is one fancy school to cost $500,000! Living expense and tuition and books for in-state OSU will come close to 100,000 I am told. I have a 15 year old so I am doing the math pretty hard right now. Kyle is out-of-state, so figure that even higher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishhook 142 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 FWIW, not everyone without a degree is digging ditches... and not everyone who has a degree is doing just fine... if a degree falls in line with your priorities then that is great... if it doesn't, then it is a waste of time and money and just contributing to the waste that is this countries educational system that is without a doubt more about making money than educating our population... I absolutely agree with this. However, a free college education, with a near guarantee at enough fame to be a small celebrity in a pretty good size market (top 15ish) in the country, plus a real shot at being a head coach somewhere, with great benefits, and a free college education for your children is different than the reality for most of the rest of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishhook 142 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 You make a good point about football athletes. They are amazing. But few football players could wrestle anything below 186. If we got footballers to wrestle heavy, they'd be awsome. In fact, many of our great heavies over the years later played in the NFL. But that's not true of any other weight. Yeah, but football blows those guys' weight up. Let's say for example Wrestling fans and money are as high as they were in the NFL, or even on the level of Iran, then Braxton Miller would likely be a70-74kg guy. A guy like Barry Sanders would probably be more like 74-86 and insanely awesome. Baseball players would fill out the middle weights. Rickey Henderson would be 74kg. or around there. Jeff Bagwell somewhere around there. Scott Stevens from the NHL in that area or up to Snyder's weight. Carl Lewis would be smaller, more like 65kg. Our most athletic guys try to grow as much as possible. What about all of the amazing football players too small to play NFL. What about Charlie Ward, or Eric Crouch or something. How good and funky would some of the X games guys be? We just have a lot of other stuff that has opportunity, maybe compared to Azerbaijan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cletus_Tucker 890 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Yeah, but football blows those guys' weight up. Let's say for example Wrestling fans and money are as high as they were in the NFL, or even on the level of Iran, then Braxton Miller would likely be a70-74kg guy. A guy like Barry Sanders would probably be more like 74-86 and insanely awesome. Baseball players would fill out the middle weights. Rickey Henderson would be 74kg. or around there. Jeff Bagwell somewhere around there. Scott Stevens from the NHL in that area or up to Snyder's weight. Carl Lewis would be smaller, more like 65kg. Our most athletic guys try to grow as much as possible. What about all of the amazing football players too small to play NFL. What about Charlie Ward, or Eric Crouch or something. How good and funky would some of the X games guys be? We just have a lot of other stuff that has opportunity, maybe compared to Azerbaijan. It wouldn't be enough to just get those guys out for the sport, they would need to be passionate about it. We have the guys competing already who are passionate about wrestling. There's no saying the above listed guys would simply step in and perform based on showing up but not having passion for the sport. Wrestling is far too tough and demanding for anyone to stick it out just to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newyorkwrestler 258 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 I don't think people are suggesting he quit school, rather that he no longer wrestle/train folkstyle from september-march, plenty of international athletes are students as well. I wouldn't want to risk getting injured during the college seasons 30+ matches and weekly weigh ins when i could be training for worlds. One world medal is worth more than 4 NCAA titles in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAFan 5 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 For those blaming folkstyle, 2 of our 3 medalists just finished a a folkstyle season 5 months ago, and neither were NCAA champs! What I loved about watching Green and Snyder was their willingness to attack! They didnt wait around for the perfect opportunity to attack, like some of our other guys seemed to be doing. They just went out and put points on the board, putting pressure on their opponents and forcing them into making mistakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 I absolutely agree with this. However, a free college education, with a near guarantee at enough fame to be a small celebrity in a pretty good size market (top 15ish) in the country, plus a real shot at being a head coach somewhere, with great benefits, and a free college education for your children is different than the reality for most of the rest of us. this is what i tell my kids, if they have a chance to be world/olympic caliber, chase that... there is little in this world that will mean as much, but, if they are not realistically going to be able to do that then by all means go the more tradiitonal route... we are lucky that we are in a situation where they will be able to go to the OTC as high schoolers on a regular basis (assuming they make the cut), so, this does not seem so unattainable right now... my 12 year old asked if he could just skip the folk season entirely, which, you just can't in this country... we decided for all the local stuff he would just greco them all... play the game at the national stuff... no one ever looked back and said that they wished they had set their goals lower... like dude said above, one world medal>4X D1 champ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cletus_Tucker 890 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 no one ever looked back and said that they wished they had set their goals lower... like dude said above, one world medal>4X D1 champ... So you have Jamil Kelly's accomplishments over Kyle Dake's? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 i am ignorant of who jamil kelly is, but, it falls into my the criteria i agreed with above, then absolutely... right now, i am seriously debating on whether i even want my kids to wrestle for a high school... just skip that entirely and train for the real stuff... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 silver in the olympics over 4 national titles? oh, hells yes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headshuck 2,203 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Garrett Lowney > Kyle Dake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 we can play this game all day long, but, i will just keep giving the same answer... this does not denigrate what kyle has done... it is just my personal feelings on the matter... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 double points for lowney for medaling in the best form of wrestling... GRECO4L! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim L 232 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 ... right now, i am seriously debating on whether i even want my kids to wrestle for a high school... just skip that entirely and train for the real stuff... As long as you are living in the US and you want your kids to wrestle, you really don't have much of a choice. Wrestling folkstyle doesn't hurt your freestyle development, just like playing baseball won't hurt your wrestling, it just would be more efficient to train 100% freestyle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 i disagree totally with saying wrestling folk doesn't hurt your freestyle and so much so that we might not do it in high school... it really depends on where they are in their developement Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tofurky 596 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 i disagree totally with saying wrestling folk doesn't hurt your freestyle and so much so that we might not do it in high school... it really depends on where they are in their developement Starting with being an effective takedown artist and defensive whiz on your feet who can hand fight and maintain solid position almost all of the time will certainly remain helpful to your young guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,488 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 they already do that... the only thing folk is going to give them is competition, which, is the only reason we do it now... by the time they get to high school we can go to the OTC and train for the real style... they don't need 4 years of learning how to wrestle the edge... the don't need 4 years of learning how to ride out and stall on top or bottom... those years can much better used to perfect par terre... the difference between good and great in international wrestling is par terre... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwh27 30 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Yeah, but football blows those guys' weight up. Let's say for example Wrestling fans and money are as high as they were in the NFL, or even on the level of Iran, then Braxton Miller would likely be a70-74kg guy. A guy like Barry Sanders would probably be more like 74-86 and insanely awesome. Baseball players would fill out the middle weights. Rickey Henderson would be 74kg. or around there. Jeff Bagwell somewhere around there. Scott Stevens from the NHL in that area or up to Snyder's weight. Carl Lewis would be smaller, more like 65kg. Our most athletic guys try to grow as much as possible. What about all of the amazing football players too small to play NFL. What about Charlie Ward, or Eric Crouch or something. How good and funky would some of the X games guys be? We just have a lot of other stuff that has opportunity, maybe compared to Azerbaijan. Haha Braxton Miller is 6'2 and he'd wrestle 70kg? The photo at the ESPYs of Logan Stieber with three Ohio St football players where he's half their height and a quarter their size shows it's more than just lifting programs that gets these guys big. There are however phenomenal athletes playing football who aren't tall or big enough to have an impact on the college level whereas if they focused on wrestling... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaroslav Hasek 1,890 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 There are however phenomenal athletes playing football who aren't tall or big enough to have an impact on the college level whereas if they focused on wrestling... yep, even basektball will take away the high school athletes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishhook 142 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Haha Braxton Miller is 6'2 and he'd wrestle 70kg? The photo at the ESPYs of Logan Stieber with three Ohio St football players where he's half their height and a quarter their size shows it's more than just lifting programs that gets these guys big. There are however phenomenal athletes playing football who aren't tall or big enough to have an impact on the college level whereas if they focused on wrestling... Good point on Miller, though he is not 6'2. Maybe at most 6'1. I have stood next to him a few times. Dude id a beast, and your point is well taken, And so is the second point. I was just thinking earlier about all of the bad ass athletes who don't get big time D 1 opportunities in the big sports and how those littler dudes would be pretty damn good. FWIW Stieber played on the varsity football team his freshman year at least. His only loss in high school was to David Taylor that year, two weeks after the football season ended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishhook 142 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 yep, even basektball will take away the high school athletes. Hell even Golf, I wouldn't be surprised if Tiger woods could do a raging back arch back in the day. Chuckle...yet likely still true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 1,988 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 As far as how impressive it is being a 4x NCAA champion vs world medalist: My opinion is that it is a bit strange that we care so much about overall collegiate career instead of peak performance. What do I mean by this distinction? If you look at the greatest wrestlers ever in the NCAA, the first four people who would come to mind are: Cael, Dake, Pat Smith, and Stieber. People say this because they had success at the NCAA tournament throughout their entire four year careers. This makes sense as a way to determine career success, as you can easily compare/quantify total ncaa titles, total wins/total losses, etc. In reality, however, John Smith and Uetake were the two greatest NCAA wrestlers ever. Each of them won a world championship in freestyle and then were dominant in folkstyle the year following. Burroughs can be listed right next to these two as well because he was dominant in folkstyle the season before his first world championship. Snyder may surpass them all, but his weight class does not exist in the NCAA. NCAA wrestling should be looked at as a developmental phase. Just because some people showed up their redshirt freshman year more prepared than a guy like Burroughs, who took more time to develop, doesn't mean they were the better NCAA wrestler. They did have a better overall NCAA career statistically, but showing success at the world stage is the true measure of skill in wrestling. 2 GoNotQuietly and Fishhook reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repechange 184 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 It doesn't matter, the US earned Gold in one third of the Olympic weights so not a terrible showing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim L 232 Report post Posted September 15, 2015 As far as how impressive it is being a 4x NCAA champion vs world medalist: My opinion is that it is a bit strange that we care so much about overall collegiate career instead of peak performance. What do I mean by this distinction? If you look at the greatest wrestlers ever in the NCAA, the first four people who would come to mind are: Cael, Dake, Pat Smith, and Stieber. People say this because they had success at the NCAA tournament throughout their entire four year careers. This makes sense as a way to determine career success, as you can easily compare/quantify total ncaa titles, total wins/total losses, etc. In reality, however, John Smith and Uetake were the two greatest NCAA wrestlers ever. Each of them won a world championship in freestyle and then were dominant in folkstyle the year following. Burroughs can be listed right next to these two as well because he was dominant in folkstyle the season before his first world championship. Snyder may surpass them all, but his weight class does not exist in the NCAA. NCAA wrestling should be looked at as a developmental phase. Just because some people showed up their redshirt freshman year more prepared than a guy like Burroughs, who took more time to develop, doesn't mean they were the better NCAA wrestler. They did have a better overall NCAA career statistically, but showing success at the world stage is the true measure of skill in wrestling. Snyder and Green performances at worlds show that NCAA greatness should not be judge by prefromances in Freestyle. They are clearly the best FS at last years NCAA and both had multiple losses during the season. who is the best NCAA wrestler should be judged by how they do at the NCAA, BTW, I did not feel this way until this year's worlds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
