Jump to content
Tofurky

Hall and Lee to Nebraska?

Recommended Posts

And if you really want to insure Olympic success, make them go to high school in NJ!  Amazing that we continue to talk about how if we want to really be successful in freestyle, we need to be wrestling that style since youth and both Burroughs and Green didn't really start freestyle until college...

You make this same argument in the other thread, and we explain to you there why it doesn't make any sense.  Mark Schultz won an olympic gold after starting in 9th grade. Maybe we'd all be better if we started wrestling in 9th Grade.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting things backwards can lead to puzzlement funk. 

Let's think about your position, shall we?

 

1) Before Snyder, only five wrestlers won a world-level title in the same year as an NCAA, and it only happened six times. All six times, the wrestlers were NCAA champs, and five of six times they were undefeated. In the sixth world-championship season, the wrestler had one loss, but avenged that loss convincingly. In contrast, Snyder this past year had four losses and was not an NCAA champ. IMO that's an issue to at least think about. In your opinion, there's nothing to see there. 

 

2) IMO, Snyder's world title shows he was head and shoulders above the competition last season in terms of skill. In your opinion, he was not head and shoulders above his competition during the season, but somehow had a meteoric burst in skill level just after the NCAA season ended. 

 

Whether you want to face facts is up to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well hats off to Kyle. Yes he had some losses at College this year, but let's face it 197 in College this year had a boat load of studs there, so I'm not so hung up and concerned about Kyle having a few losses and a 2nd place finish at the NCAA's. Besides that that was Folksryle, this is Freestyle. Whatever is happening with Kyle, seems to be working, and I hope it continues. I would love to see Kyle rack up a gaggle of medals, like a Burroughs or some of our other greats from the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's think about your position, shall we?

 

1) Before Snyder, only five wrestlers won a world-level title in the same year as an NCAA, and it only happened six times. All six times, the wrestlers were NCAA champs, and five of six times they were undefeated. In the sixth world-championship season, the wrestler had one loss, but avenged that loss convincingly. In contrast, Snyder this past year had four losses and was not an NCAA champ. IMO that's an issue to at least think about. In your opinion, there's nothing to see there. 

 

2) IMO, Snyder's world title shows he was head and shoulders above the competition last season in terms of skill. In your opinion, he was not head and shoulders above his competition during the season, but somehow had a meteoric burst in skill level just after the NCAA season ended. 

 

Whether you want to face facts is up to you.

Face facts?  It is a fact that the NCAAs came before the World Championships. To make a claim that requires the opposite to be true, as you did, is absurd (as my philosophy profs liked to say). My position? It is that you misworded your slap at Ohio State.

 

Judge to what degree the following is true:

Premise: under the tutelage of TOSU and Ohio Regional Training Center coaches and older workout partners, a young four loss NCAA wrestler developed into a senior world champion in short order.

 

This allows an apples-to-apples counter by you. By all means make your case if you think it important enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Face facts?  It is a fact that the NCAAs came before the World Championships. To make a claim that requires the opposite to be true, as you did, is absurd (as my philosophy profs liked to say). My position? It is that you misworded your slap at Ohio State.

 

Judge to what degree the following is true:

Premise: under the tutelage of TOSU and Ohio Regional Training Center coaches and older workout partners, a young four loss NCAA wrestler developed into a senior world champion in short order.

 

This allows an apples-to-apples counter by you. By all means make your case if you think it important enough.

Well there you have it. You think Snyder saved a rapid and considerable improvement until after the NCAA season ended. Now why would he do that? Why not rapidly improve just before NCAAs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You think"

 

You don't know what I thought. I didn't give an opinion on the premise provided. I doubt I'm qualified.

 

Since you think you are, go ahead and tell us about Snyder "saving" or "not saving" improvements, however the hell one does that.

 

Put it under the heading of "how TOSU impeded Kyle Snyder".  Or, perhaps, "how Kyle Snyder would have been better off at Penn State". Tell us all about it. Write clearly and use good logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Circling back to Mark Hall, Corey Haddad the high school guy from AWN just reported that Hall is down to Penn State and Ohio State. He reports that Hall will make official visits to Penn State on Oct. 10, then C'bus on Oct. 18, then decide on Oct. 22. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You make this same argument in the other thread, and we explain to you there why it doesn't make any sense.  Mark Schultz won an olympic gold after starting in 9th grade. Maybe we'd all be better if we started wrestling in 9th Grade.  

Lee Kemp started late as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you really want to insure Olympic success, make them go to high school in NJ!  Amazing that we continue to talk about how if we want to really be successful in freestyle, we need to be wrestling that style since youth and both Burroughs and Green didn't really start freestyle until college...

 

 

Burroughs was on a world team in High school

 

Schultz began wrestling high school is a junior.   

 

Hall is likely leaning toward Penn State

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wondering how tOSU turned a world champ into a 4-loss wrestler. I'm genuinely puzzled.

Considering Snyder has been very vocal in giving credit to his entire set up at Ohio State, from the coaches, teammates and all way down to his training partners at the OTC, wouldn't arguing the opposite make more sense.

 

Snyder has flat out said he was getting teched by JD Bergman when he first got on campus, mind you this was a year after training the entire year at Colorado OTC and right around the very beginning of his freshman season.

 

A Snyder who was getting teched by Bergman sounds parallel to a true freshman only taking 4 losses and becoming NCAA runner up where he got caught. The Snyder today does not get teched by Bergman, obviously.

 

So my argument would not be how did a 4X loss collegian win Worlds, it would be Ohio State and everything it encompasses relative to Snyder was conducive in taking a 4X loss collegian and helped develop he into a World champ in less than one year.

 

Sound preposterous? Ask Snyder yourself, he'll say the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is obviously a little of both. If it were ONLY the athlete, then coaching doesn't matter. But coaching obviously matters, so it can't be only the athlete. If it were ONLY the coaches, then the athlete doesn't matter. This also can't be true.

 

Reece Humphrey, Dlagnev and Logan Stieber all train in the same room and none of them won worlds, so there is something specific about Snyder that allowed him to take in that same coaching and turn it into World Gold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I am remembering correctly Burroughs made the University world team

After his junior year in college and placed 7th.

 

If he was on a world team in HS it is odd that the only D1 teams to offer him a scholarship were Indiana and Nebraska

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Circling back to Mark Hall, Corey Haddad the high school guy from AWN just reported that Hall is down to Penn State and Ohio State. He reports that Hall will make official visits to Penn State on Oct. 10, then C'bus on Oct. 18, then decide on Oct. 22.

Not sure what to make of news that Hall is visiting Minnesota this weekend. If it was down to Ohio State and Penn State why bother?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is obviously a little of both. If it were ONLY the athlete, then coaching doesn't matter. But coaching obviously matters, so it can't be only the athlete. If it were ONLY the coaches, then the athlete doesn't matter. This also can't be true.

 

Reece Humphrey, Dlagnev and Logan Stieber all train in the same room and none of them won worlds, so there is something specific about Snyder that allowed him to take in that same coaching and turn it into World Gold. 

But Dlagnev has medaled and Humphrey 5th.  

People speak of Gold like it should just happen because............

So disrespectful to the accomplishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...