Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Billyhoyle

Folkstyle: Is it best for our athletes?

Recommended Posts

I want this topic to be about one thing:  What is the purpose of the NCAA (specifically NCAA wrestling), and does having our athletes wrestle folkstyle serve this purpose?   

 

I am putting this in the college forum because this topic isn't about the success of team USA at the international level.  It's not about what is best for the fans or even the overall popularity of the sport.  

 

In my opinion, NCAA wrestling should be about preparing our student athletes for their future, whatever it is that future may be.

 

 

For 99% of NCAA wrestlers, the folkstyle vs freestyle question means nothing.  They won't see their careers extend beyond college, and they use wrestling to better their lives through improving their education/mental toughness/work ethic/etc and then applying it to their future careers.  This is a great thing.  

 

However, our best NCAA wrestlers have dreams of winning world and olympic titles.  

 

Guys like Metcalf, Herbert, Ramos, Dake, Taylor, Rey, Dlagnev, Humphreys..They are putting off their future (whether that is in coaching or outside of wrestling) to chase a dream.  Winning a world/olympic gold medal is their ideal career path, and wrestling folkstyle in high school and college has hurt the future of these elite athletes tremendously.   We forced them to choose between their education/college scholarship and wrestling in the style that would have better suited their ultimate goals.  

 

The question is simple:  Is folkstyle really best for our athletes?  For most, I think it doesn't matter.  However, to punish the ones who put the most into the sport and make them choose between their education and athletic success is a backwards system.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too soon to have this conversation. The focus now should be on making folkstyle more exciting. It's without a doubt a horrible product right now.

I agree that it is more exciting and changing folkstyle to be more exciting is a good thing, but that is more of a matter of personal preference.  Most in the US probably find folkstyle more exciting because we are more familiar/used to it.  Most NCAA wrestling fans used to wrestle themselves and are used to folkstyle. 

 

I want this discussion to be about what is best for our athletes, not necessarily the fans.

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some questions to consider...

 

How do you decide between freestyle and greco at the college level?  Maybe even submission grappling since probably 10Xs as many wrestlers will move on to MMA than UWW and you are talking about what is best for the athletes.

 

Do you adopt all of the rules of the UWW?  When the UWW changes rules every year are you obligated to change?

 

Do you go with the UWW repechage system?

 

Do you go with UWW weights?  Weigh-in rules?  Age classifications?

 

Just in the past decade in international freestyle wrestling we have seen best 2 out of 3, ball grab, leg clinch, variations in TF amount, match ending criteria, OT rules.  Do you constantly switch as they do?

 

They specifically create the rules to favor variation in results over fairness, do we do the same?  What do we do with the bottom loaded bracket?

 

I think everyone wants to make Folkstyle the culprit when it could be the smaller part of the problem.  I think the greater part of the problem is the HS and College sports system.  Other countries spend the years from 16-20 with their top priority being technical development.  We spend those same years with our kids wrestling 100+ matches and the top priority is always on winning over technique.  This is why they are cutting large amounts of weight during key development years, because their coaches would rather they win than improve.  That is why you see so many go up a weight or two in a redshirt year, because cutting weight helps you to win in the short term, but hurts your development.   

 

Overseas they are often in the same club and training situation from a very young age.  If you are wrestling at 14 years old for the club you will be with at 24, they care more about making you better at 24 than about making you win at 14.  But a HS coach doesn't have anything professionally invested in a wrestler's college success, so he cares more about the 14 year old winning a Thursday night dual match.  If this means having a 17 year old suck weight to 106 instead of getting better, than so be it.  The same is true in other sports when you compare Europe and the US (basketball, soccer, etc...).  Our kids scrimmage and compete year round and are worse technically/fundamentally in every sport that takes part in the High School and College system, because those systems are designed to win rather than to teach.

 

The HS sports system is great for teaching life lessons and motivating kids to do better academically and behaviorally in HS, but it is terrible for developing wrestlers.  The college system is a great blessing to the thousands of wrestlers who get degrees and the 100s who get coaching jobs, but an awful way to develop young talent.  I think more of Cejudo's and Snyder's early success is due to their "academy" style training exposure then their earlier Freestyle focus.  Because if it was just about the freestyle focus, our guys would get fully freestyle acclimated and win big in their mid-20s.  That is not happening even for the ones who stick around that long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some questions to consider...

 

How do you decide between freestyle and greco at the college level?  Maybe even submission grappling since probably 10Xs as many wrestlers will move on to MMA than UWW and you are talking about what is best for the athletes.

 

Do you adopt all of the rules of the UWW?  When the UWW changes rules every year are you obligated to change?

 

Do you go with the UWW repechage system?

 

Do you go with UWW weights?  Weigh-in rules?  Age classifications?

 

Just in the past decade in international freestyle wrestling we have seen best 2 out of 3, ball grab, leg clinch, variations in TF amount, match ending criteria, OT rules.  Do you constantly switch as they do?

 

They specifically create the rules to favor variation in results over fairness, do we do the same?  What do we do with the bottom loaded bracket?

 

I think everyone wants to make Folkstyle the culprit when it could be the smaller part of the problem.  I think the greater part of the problem is the HS and College sports system.  Other countries spend the years from 16-20 with their top priority being technical development.  We spend those same years with our kids wrestling 100+ matches and the top priority is always on winning over technique.  This is why they are cutting large amounts of weight during key development years, because their coaches would rather they win than improve.  That is why you see so many go up a weight or two in a redshirt year, because cutting weight helps you to win in the short term, but hurts your development.   

 

Overseas they are often in the same club and training situation from a very young age.  If you are wrestling at 14 years old for the club you will be with at 24, they care more about making you better at 24 than about making you win at 14.  But a HS coach doesn't have anything professionally invested in a wrestler's college success, so he cares more about the 14 year old winning a Thursday night dual match.  If this means having a 17 year old suck weight to 106 instead of getting better, than so be it.  The same is true in other sports when you compare Europe and the US (basketball, soccer, etc...).  Our kids scrimmage and compete year round and are worse technically/fundamentally in every sport that takes part in the High School and College system, because those systems are designed to win rather than to teach.

 

The HS sports system is great for teaching life lessons and motivating kids to do better academically and behaviorally in HS, but it is terrible for developing wrestlers.  The college system is a great blessing to the thousands of wrestlers who get degrees and the 100s who get coaching jobs, but an awful way to develop young talent.  I think more of Cejudo's and Snyder's early success is due to their "academy" style training exposure then their earlier Freestyle focus.  Because if it was just about the freestyle focus, our guys would get fully freestyle acclimated and win big in their mid-20s.  That is not happening even for the ones who stick around that long.

I agree that the ultimate way to train elite athletes is to have this academy style system.  However, I think this is the type of thing that really shouldn't be encouraged on a large scale.  It is too risky given the burn out rate...It may not matter in countries like Russia/Aze/Iran/Cuba, where opportunity is limited in general, but it is a huge risk to ask a kid to dedicate his life to wrestling at age 16 in the United States.  So I assume this option is off the table for most people.

 

I see guys like Metcalf and Herbert look like they are fish out of water wrestling freestyle, when they had great success with their method of wrestling in folkstyle.  The switch to freestyle at the collegiate level at least helps to acclimate our best earlier and have them be more familiar in these positions. 

 

And I am picking Freestyle over Greco simply because it is closer to folkstyle.  Having Freestyle in the winter and Greco in the spring would be even better.  Maybe you could have both in the winter also? Why not throw in women's wrestling as well? Track has a variety of events within the banner of one sport...I don't think this is financially an option though, since you would be increasing the sizes of the teams and their budgets/would lead to programs being cut...So I choose freestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the ultimate way to train elite athletes is to have this academy style system.  However, I think this is the type of thing that really shouldn't be encouraged on a large scale.  It is too risky given the burn out rate...It may not matter in countries like Russia/Aze/Iran/Cuba, where opportunity is limited in general, but it is a huge risk to ask a kid to dedicate his life to wrestling at age 16 in the United States.  So I assume this option is off the table for most people.

 

I see guys like Metcalf and Herbert look like they are fish out of water wrestling freestyle, when they had great success with their method of wrestling in folkstyle.  The switch to freestyle at the collegiate level at least helps to acclimate our best earlier and have them be more familiar in these positions. 

 

And I am picking Freestyle over Greco simply because it is closer to folkstyle.  Having Freestyle in the winter and Greco in the spring would be even better.  Maybe you could have both in the winter also? Why not throw in women's wrestling as well? Track has a variety of events within the banner of one sport...I don't think this is financially an option though, since you would be increasing the sizes of the teams and their budgets/would lead to programs being cut...So I choose freestyle.

I am not advocating the academy style.  I actually prefer what we have because it is better for the bottom 99% even if it's at the expense of the potential prodigy.  And I don't think the prodigy is hurting too much when he gets $100,000 of free education and earns $1,000,000+ over his life with the degree.  

 

I am pointing this out to say the main thing stopping us from beating Russia is not Folkstyle.  It is the fact that they train their kids in a professional style Academy setting with government funding from young ages.  They have vertical alignment in technique from the earliest age.  Like I said, it is true in every sport the world takes seriously.  People here think our Soccer team can't win because they don't get the Lebron Jameses of the USA.  But the Lebron Jameses of the USA are being caught and passed by European Basketball players who turn pro at 14 and work on free throws and bounce passes instead of playing 40 AAU tournaments a year.  

 

So we can wrestle Freestyle and turn our entire system upside down (never going to happen), or we can funnel our truly elite kids towards the OTC like Cejudo, Snyder, and Pico did.  Notice star swimmers, golfers, gymnasts from the USA dominate the world and are prodigies at young ages.  Notice none of them spend any real time in HS sports and most make a pit stop in college if they go at all.  

Edited by boconnell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should a minor sport like freestyle wrestling be scrapped so that college wrestling doesn't lose any more potential greats such as Cejudo and Pico?  That is the question that real wrestling fans are asking themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But the Lebron Jameses of the USA are being caught and passed by European Basketball players who turn pro at 14 and work on free throws and bounce passes instead of playing 40 AAU tournaments a year.  

 

 

 

AAU basketball may not be where it needs to be and it shows somewhat at the NCAA level, but the NBA is loaded as ever when it comes to young, domestic talent. Meanwhile, Europe has sent bust after bust to the NBA. Such a lazy and dated narrative. Has nothing to do with wrestling but certainly takes from your credibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Off on a slight tangent----would we have had the same ten NCAA champs, this past March, wrestling free instead of folk?

This is a great question.  I don't think so because freestyle selects for a different set of skills.  That is part of the problem with folkstyle.  We have a selection in high school and college that eliminates a number of guys and optimizes for folkstyle talent, but a number of people who would be excellent freestylers get an opportunity to develop it.  

 

 

 

And we should stop playing football and start playing soccer since thats what the rest of the world does...

The premise of this argument makes no sense.  Professional football exists, so college football prepares the best college football players for professional football.  It would be as if they played a version of college football in which the forward pass was against the rules.  That is a more accurate analogy, and anybody would say that would be a ridiculous thing to do.  
 
 

What is best for the fans IS what is best for the athletes.

I think there is some merit to this argument.  If there were no fans, then college wrestling would not exist and all the programs would be dropped.  However, I don't think a switch to freestyle would do this if it is handled slowly and properly (make it over a number of years with incremental rule changes).  People watch Olympic wrestling, and as long as Iowa is competing against Oklahoma state, and as long as Cael Sanderson is coaching Penn State, People will be watching.  Maybe for a short period of time there will be slightly fewer fans, but I don't anticipate such a drop to last very long.  
Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why this has to be such a zero-sum game.  Can't folkstyle, freestyle, and greco be considered as complementary elements that make someone a better Olympic wrestler or MMA/combat sports athlete?

 

I don't buy into the thinking that wrestling folkstyle is detrimental to freestyle (and vice-versa). Top freestyle wrestlers in other countries, for example, are often knowledgeable with applicable techniques from Sambo, Judo, Pankration, BJJ, grappling, and others. They only add to an athlete's arsenal and help with mat & body awareness.

 

It also progresses wrestling as a sport and might allow us as Americans to develop, if we wanted to, a distinctive style based on folk -- as opposed to constantly trying to adapt to a more European style of wrestling. I would love, for example, to see U.S. freestylers adapt folkstyle techniques into a counter series from bottom in par terre and aggresively work reversals and turns rather than "stumping out" until the whistle.

 

I'm digressing, but my point why not allow wrestlers the opportunity to get proficient at folk, free, and greco? We see some of this at the youth & scholastic level, but it seems to go away in college, even with offseason competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why this has to be such a zero-sum game.  Can't folkstyle, freestyle, and greco be considered as complementary elements that make someone a better Olympic wrestler or MMA/combat sports athlete?

 

I don't buy into the thinking that wrestling folkstyle is detrimental to freestyle (and vice-versa). Top freestyle wrestlers in other countries, for example, are often knowledgeable with applicable techniques from Sambo, Judo, Pankration, BJJ, grappling, and others. They only add to an athlete's arsenal and help with mat & body awareness.

 

It also progresses wrestling as a sport and might allow us as Americans to develop, if we wanted to, a distinctive style based on folk -- as opposed to constantly trying to adapt to a more European style of wrestling. I would love, for example, to see U.S. freestylers adapt folkstyle techniques into a counter series from bottom in par terre and aggresively work reversals and turns rather than "stumping out" until the whistle.

 

I'm digressing, but my point why not allow wrestlers the opportunity to get proficient at folk, free, and greco? We see some of this at the youth & scholastic level, but it seems to go away in college, even with offseason competition.

This is an interesting point.  You are making the argument that folkstyle can be better for our athletes because it can help make them better freestyle wrestlers by putting in positions they might otherwise not encounter and then allow them to apply it. 

 

I would say this could work, except the problem is college wrestling is only folkstyle, so wrestlers will adopt to a style that is best for folkstyle.  It would be different to teach all three at the youth level, and then do freestyle in high school/college (this would allow people to incorporate folkstyle techniques into freestyle as you suggest).  Because they do all three in youth and then only do folkstyle in high school/college, what ends up happening is people become only comfortable with folkstyle.  

 

My evidence for this is the lack of success our guys have had over the past two decades at the international level, the rigidity with which our top guys wrestle, and the fact that our most successful guys generally have not engaged in freestyle ties/positions (Sanderson, Burroughs, Green) and win off of speed/power/takedowns.  They are folkstylers wrestling freestyle, but I don't think they would have been any worse if they had focused earlier on freestyle.  Cejudo and Snyder are the exceptions (to some degree), but they are examples of focusing on freestyle in high school.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AAU basketball may not be where it needs to be and it shows somewhat at the NCAA level, but the NBA is loaded as ever when it comes to young, domestic talent. Meanwhile, Europe has sent bust after bust to the NBA. Such a lazy and dated narrative. Has nothing to do with wrestling but certainly takes from your credibility.

Meanwhile the Spurs win half the titles with a team of International guys and the Olympic team puts the most talented roster in the history of the sport together to win close games over 10 guys from Spain who couldn't make our team.  We win with overwhelming athletic talent and participation numbers despite a huge lack of fundamentals and skills development.  

 

But like you said, this is about wrestling.  If you would rather compare wrestling to Soccer it is even more apparent because we are not athletically and numerically superior to all other countries in soccer (like we aren't in wrestling).  Then you see even more clearly how the professional academy system lends itself to creating phenoms.

 

From a purely developmental standpoint, we put kids into entirely new programs with new coaches every 4 years during a time they need consistency to develop.  We have them wrestle 100+ matches while cutting weight in 25 competitions, when their long term wrestling would be best served by learning technique from a coach who cares what they will be in 5-10 years, not what they are that day.

 

Imagine if Cael was in charge of what was taught in Pennsylvania High Schools and he didn't have to recruit any of those kids because they were already in his program.  All he had to do was make sure like minded coaches taught them exactly how he wanted so they could be the best adult wrestlers they could be.  Let him do that for a few decades with national funding and he'd turn out Gold medalists every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is an interesting point.  You are making the argument that folkstyle can be better for our athletes because it can help make them better freestyle wrestlers by putting in positions they might otherwise not encounter and then allow them to apply it. 

 

I would say this could work, except the problem is college wrestling is only folkstyle, so wrestlers will adopt to a style that is best for folkstyle.  It would be different to teach all three at the youth level, and then do freestyle in high school/college (this would allow people to incorporate folkstyle techniques into freestyle as you suggest).  Because they do all three in youth and then only do folkstyle in high school/college, what ends up happening is people become only comfortable with folkstyle.  

 

My evidence for this is the lack of success our guys have had over the past two decades at the international level, the rigidity with which our top guys wrestle, and the fact that our most successful guys generally have not engaged in freestyle ties/positions (Sanderson, Burroughs, Green) and win off of speed/power/takedowns.  They are folkstylers wrestling freestyle, but I don't think they would have been any worse if they had focused earlier on freestyle.  Cejudo and Snyder are the exceptions (to some degree), but they are examples of focusing on freestyle in high school.  

John Smith is our greatest Freestyler ever.  He is by far our most respected technical wrestler ever.  He was winning NCAA titles with the same move he won World titles with.  But in the 80s the two styles were far more similar.  As the world governing body has made a concerted effort to remove things that Americans excel at we have gotten worse (no surprise).  We have not adjusted with the times.  This is because our 100 best technical minds are focused on Folkstyle innovation and technique rather than freestyle.  It is a shame we don't pay our national team coach in a way (or give him enough power) to make a top wrestling guy take and keep that job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Go to 4:30.  Exactly what we are talking about.  He doesn't want to say we need to abandon folkstyle, but he is thinking it.  He mentions the russian club system, but the real emphasis is on them having more freestyle wrestlers/experience.  The best we can do for now is emphasize freestyle at the lower levels more, but really compete we need to switch our system.  

 

 

 

Go to 14:45 of this interview from the man himself:

 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is an interesting point.  You are making the argument that folkstyle can be better for our athletes because it can help make them better freestyle wrestlers by putting in positions they might otherwise not encounter and then allow them to apply it. 

 

I would say this could work, except the problem is college wrestling is only folkstyle, so wrestlers will adopt to a style that is best for folkstyle.  It would be different to teach all three at the youth level, and then do freestyle in high school/college (this would allow people to incorporate folkstyle techniques into freestyle as you suggest).  Because they do all three in youth and then only do folkstyle in high school/college, what ends up happening is people become only comfortable with folkstyle.  

 

My evidence for this is the lack of success our guys have had over the past two decades at the international level, the rigidity with which our top guys wrestle, and the fact that our most successful guys generally have not engaged in freestyle ties/positions (Sanderson, Burroughs, Green) and win off of speed/power/takedowns.  They are folkstylers wrestling freestyle, but I don't think they would have been any worse if they had focused earlier on freestyle.  Cejudo and Snyder are the exceptions (to some degree), but they are examples of focusing on freestyle in high school.

 

I hear you, Billlyhoyle. I suppose what I'm getting at is: why can't folk and free/GR coexist at the collegiate level? Many high school athletic conferences have both. It would be awesome if the NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA kept the existing folkstyle season and followed it with a freestyle season starting in March.

 

The college freestyle season doesn't have to be a long and drawn out with a lengthy preseason and duals and like folkstyle; it could be a series of conference or regional FS tournaments with team scoring. Maybe a takedown tournament or an exposure tournament from par terre, then nationals. I'm just speaking off the cuff here, but the it would be a heck of a fun experiment, and a nice way to get our guys primed for international competition.

 

Funding this at the college level would be a whole other can of worms, but my thinking is that the added incremental revenue and media exposure under the umbrella of "wrestling" (folk and free) might actually make the sport more attractive to schools? I'm using freestyle as the example here, because including wfs could offset Title IX concerns. I'm all for having a college folkstyle AND freestyle season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you, Billlyhoyle. I suppose what I'm getting at is: why can't folk and free/GR coexist at the collegiate level? Many high school athletic conferences have both. It would be awesome if the NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA kept the existing folkstyle season and followed it with a freestyle season starting in March.

 

The college freestyle season doesn't have to be a long and drawn out with a lengthy preseason and duals and like folkstyle; it could be a series of conference or regional FS tournaments with team scoring. Maybe a takedown tournament or an exposure tournament from par terre, then nationals. I'm just speaking off the cuff here, but the it would be a heck of a fun experiment, and a nice way to get our guys primed for international competition.

 

Funding this at the college level would be a whole other can of worms, but my thinking is that the added incremental revenue and media exposure under the umbrella of "wrestling" (folk and free) might actually make the sport more attractive to schools? I'm using freestyle as the example here, because including wfs could offset Title IX concerns. I'm all for having a college folkstyle AND freestyle season.

As you point out, funding would be the issue.  Track and Field does this with cross country/indoor track/track, but this is more engrained...It is a lot more difficult to make changes now that athletic departments are all about making $$$.  Adding two more seasons would significantly increase the budget of the teams..Iowa and Penn state could do it, but for everyone else, it would be another reason to drop the sport.  I think the only answer is to slowly change folkstyle so it becomes more like freestyle, and then at a certain point simply switch.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you, Billlyhoyle. I suppose what I'm getting at is: why can't folk and free/GR coexist at the collegiate level? Many high school athletic conferences have both. It would be awesome if the NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA kept the existing folkstyle season and followed it with a freestyle season starting in March.

 

The college freestyle season doesn't have to be a long and drawn out with a lengthy preseason and duals and like folkstyle; it could be a series of conference or regional FS tournaments with team scoring. Maybe a takedown tournament or an exposure tournament from par terre, then nationals. I'm just speaking off the cuff here, but the it would be a heck of a fun experiment, and a nice way to get our guys primed for international competition.

 

Funding this at the college level would be a whole other can of worms, but my thinking is that the added incremental revenue and media exposure under the umbrella of "wrestling" (folk and free) might actually make the sport more attractive to schools? I'm using freestyle as the example here, because including wfs could offset Title IX concerns. I'm all for having a college folkstyle AND freestyle season.

 

Two wrestling seasons would be fantastic.  But Pamela, please name of few of these many high school athletic conferences that currently have both folkstyle and freestyle wrestling.  School sanctioned high school varsity freestyle wrestling in the United States?  Have never heard of it.  Did I misunderstand what you said?

 

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The assumption here is that college wrestling is only valuable if it serves as preparation for international wrestling. I disagree. It is valuable as a sport in itself. It is substantially more important to US fans who don't really care about freestyle. It is much better suited to something like MMA.

 

International freestyle is a bastardized form of wrestling that has no significance to the majority of US fans and rightly so. It is just not that important. It deserved to be thrown out of the Olympics because it was unwatchable. It has had to improve just to survive, but it is still too often mired in challenges and technical interpretations and questionable rules where matches are decided by judges. It leaves the viewer and the athletes shortchanged.

 

Every style can be improved of course, folkstyle included. But while a gold medal still has a nice cachet, competing with Russia and Iran in international freestyle is not that big a deal. At least not to me. And we still manage to have success.    

Edited by straggler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folkstyle is not the problem.  Wrestling is millions if years old, **** it may be pre-earth. It is old.  Every country or region has developed it's own type of folk music, folk stories, folk traditions, and folk WRESTLING.  In Russia, its called Sambo.  japan has sumo and others.   We need to stop relying on stalling so much, and call it like it is int he rest of the world.  We shoot and we shoot good, but wrestling is more about setups, leverage and positioning.  Calling stalling based on the number of shots an athlete takes, of calling stalling based on the number of fans yelling stalling, is ineffective.  WE need to encourage technique in positioning and not forget about wrestling holds.  If you get a guy in a hold, action may slow down, but it is NOT stalling.   To put another way, yelling stalling is avery effective technique in American to put a few types of pressures on an athlete.  If a guy scores the first takedown, and stays center in good position, he should not have to take a shot again.  The other athlete needs to move him out of position and dominate the ties.  In Ohio High School wrestling, the guy in this example, would surely get hit with stalling, then the match becomes a flail fest. Not good against anyone in Freestyle.  Shots don't mean ****.  We should 100%b not let our athletes wuss out on upperbody so often too.  It'd be nice not to be noticeably scared to tie up as a country.  The Germans, and other nations thrive on this moment.  

 

And if folk is so bad, why is all of team Canada, and most of Hungary doing Folk? Why would Sergei Belagozov come here to coach Folk?  Why would Zeke Jones go from Freestyle National coach to Arizona State?   The answer is it is awesome.  So is freestyle. Maybe as a country simply just supporting Freestyle would be a start.  Go to any one biddy tourney and 5% at most are watching the world Freestyle stuff. More would tune into the Olympics, but most are televised at 4 AM to make room for 10 year old female gymnasts.  In Iran there are loud fans and $$$$$$. Hard to compete with that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...