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2016 Olympic Team and Worlds Comments

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57kg:  Tony Ramos

65kg:  James Green

74kg:  Jordan Burroughs

86kg:  David Taylor

97kg:  Kyle Snyder

125kg:  Nick Gwiazdowski

 

57kg:  There isn't anyone that can beat him.  His weight.  Really wish he had opened up a bit more against Rahimi.  Did not look into that Repechage match.

 

65kg:  I love Metcalf.  Hearing he was concussed after that first flurry with the Chinaman.  His bad luck continues.  Pico and Stieber are going to be tough outs.  But Green's performance shows he's the man to beat.  He's a tough match up internationally.

 

74kg:  The. Man.  It's clear that his assistant coaching duties are affecting his training.  Hope that gets tailored a bit more.

 

86kg:  For the love of GOD Herbert!  Would it kill you to learn the "Iranian" finish from the seatbelt position?  He's there ALL THE TIME.  And for that matter, the rest of America needs to get with it as well.  Saw Yanni hitting it at Cadet Worlds, gives me hope for the future of our technique.  

 

97kg:  I called it.  This kid is so savvy.  We, and the wrestling community could learn a lot, and make ourselves better by the simple task of watching video.  Snyder is that guy.  Heard a great story that he doesn't watch tv, and just wants to be the best QB/film watcher.  My only question is, when he comes back to tOSU, what weight?  that cut to 197 doesn't make a lot of sense for his international career.

 

125:  Really only going out on a limb with Gwiz.  He's 3rd behind Rey and Dlagnev.  Not sure he can beat them, but his trajectory has been amazing.  A healthy Dlagnev is still the best in America.  Hope his surgery went well.  

 

Overall:  Decent showing by America.  We have so much work to do technically.  Glad Bruce Burnett said it out loud.  Our conditioning is fine, our "hearts" are fine.  We do not execute.  Look at Snyder's low single to win the match against Gadisov.  Ask Humphrey how difficult it is to beat a chest lock.  Snyder's execution was everything.  He beat Gadisov to the finish.  I do think we're getting there.  I think there's a slow paradigm shift in our focus - and I mean this on the collegiate level as well.  There's less and less over training, and that is trickling down/up to the Senior athletes.

 

With that said.  We could have a GREAT Olympic year.  5 medals is a real possibility.

 

 

 

 

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The future of USA Wrestling freestyle is looking bright.  Our junior and cadet teams are making great strides and as Snyder has shown will be ready to wrestle at the senior level.  I have a couple of thoughts.

 

57 kg - Coleman Scott will be able to challenge Ramos at this weight.  I don't think Ramos is a clear favorite with an olympic bronze medalist dropping down.  

 

65 kg - The spot is Metcalf's until someone proves they can take it from him.  That said I think Pico and Green would do better here.  Both have a better offense internationally then Metcalf.  I think 2016 might be the year he gets dethroned domestically.

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Yes, that's going to be some battle for the 65 spot. I'm guessing it's going to be a real tough weight cut for Green, but then again, I don't know.

 

I'm probably going to take some heat for this, but I think Pico will win the Trials. Still love Metcalf, Green, JO and Steiber, and I'll be just as happy for those guys if they win.

 

Just having some "early - line" fun with this OP. Again, any of those guys can win, but I'm picking Pico.

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57kg:  Tony Ramos

65kg:  James Green

74kg:  Jordan Burroughs

86kg:  David Taylor

97kg:  Kyle Snyder

125kg:  Nick Gwiazdowski

 

57kg:  There isn't anyone that can beat him.  His weight.  Really wish he had opened up a bit more against Rahimi.  Did not look into that Repechage match.

 

65kg:  I love Metcalf.  Hearing he was concussed after that first flurry with the Chinaman.  His bad luck continues.  Pico and Stieber are going to be tough outs.  But Green's performance shows he's the man to beat.  He's a tough match up internationally.

 

74kg:  The. Man.  It's clear that his assistant coaching duties are affecting his training.  Hope that gets tailored a bit more.

 

86kg:  For the love of GOD Herbert!  Would it kill you to learn the "Iranian" finish from the seatbelt position?  He's there ALL THE TIME.  And for that matter, the rest of America needs to get with it as well.  Saw Yanni hitting it at Cadet Worlds, gives me hope for the future of our technique.  

 

97kg:  I called it.  This kid is so savvy.  We, and the wrestling community could learn a lot, and make ourselves better by the simple task of watching video.  Snyder is that guy.  Heard a great story that he doesn't watch tv, and just wants to be the best QB/film watcher.  My only question is, when he comes back to tOSU, what weight?  that cut to 197 doesn't make a lot of sense for his international career.

 

125:  Really only going out on a limb with Gwiz.  He's 3rd behind Rey and Dlagnev.  Not sure he can beat them, but his trajectory has been amazing.  A healthy Dlagnev is still the best in America.  Hope his surgery went well.  

 

Overall:  Decent showing by America.  We have so much work to do technically.  Glad Bruce Burnett said it out loud.  Our conditioning is fine, our "hearts" are fine.  We do not execute.  Look at Snyder's low single to win the match against Gadisov.  Ask Humphrey how difficult it is to beat a chest lock.  Snyder's execution was everything.  He beat Gadisov to the finish.  I do think we're getting there.  I think there's a slow paradigm shift in our focus - and I mean this on the collegiate level as well.  There's less and less over training, and that is trickling down/up to the Senior athletes.

 

With that said.  We could have a GREAT Olympic year.  5 medals is a real possibility.

I like your lineup although I think Taylor is a stretch to be competitive at 86kg.  Still would like to see Dlagnev have another shot, he has been good and close for very long.

5 medal is a huge stretch.  We had a great worlds that had 8 eights and came out with 3 medals.  Eliminate two weights and we would have to medal in all but one weight class.  

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I like your lineup although I think Taylor is a stretch to be competitive at 86kg.  Still would like to see Dlagnev have another shot, he has been good and close for very long.

5 medal is a huge stretch.  We had a great worlds that had 8 eights and came out with 3 medals.  Eliminate two weights and we would have to medal in all but one weight class.  

 

Here's why I say 5.

 

57: Tony is right there with the World no. 2

65: Green already has a medal

74: The. Man

86: I really do think David will be big enough to compete.  If he beats Herbet he CAN medal.  

97: odds-on favorite

125: a healthy Dlagnev is a consistent top 5.

 

I think we CAN win 5 out of 6. Is it likely?  Course not.  

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Here's why I say 5.

 

57: Tony is right there with the World no. 2

65: Green already has a medal

74: The. Man

86: I really do think David will be big enough to compete.  If he beats Herbet he CAN medal.  

97: odds-on favorite

125: a healthy Dlagnev is a consistent top 5.

 

I think we CAN win 5 out of 6. Is it likely?  Course not.  

Fair enough. We send send Green and Dlagnev then with Snyder and Burroughs we have four world medalists, all we would need is either Ramos or Taylor to medal, both are long shots IMO

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Congrats to James Green on a great tournament

 

As a fellow Jersey guy I saw him all 4 years at NJ states and would love to see him in Rio

 

...but, 65 kilos is 14 pounds less then his NCAA weight of 157 and 11 pounds less then the 70k he just medaled at

 

...and, until someone dethrones Metcalf - he is still the man to beat

 

not saying Green can not do it - it will be very hard

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I like your ideas, vhsalum, but I have a tough time seeing Taylor being able to keep up with the size and strength, AFTER the technique, of the guys at 86 kilos. I'd love to see him do it, but I admit I have my reservations. Does anyone have any reliable information on how DT competed against Ed Ruth the last four years?

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86kg:  For the love of GOD Herbert!  Would it kill you to learn the "Iranian" finish from the seatbelt position?  He's there ALL THE TIME.  And for that matter, the rest of America needs to get with it as well.  Saw Yanni hitting it at Cadet Worlds, gives me hope for the future of our technique.  

I can't picture what you're describing.  Can you link one of the matches from Cadets?

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Btw, my Pico pick was in no way a shot at Metcalf. But probably wasn't the best of timing, just in case Brent does read these threads, and being that the Trials are still months away.

 

And really wouldn't be surprised to see Brent blitz the American 65 bracket again (plus it's in Iowa, right?). 

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For all the Green talk, Schlatter was right there with him at trials and is just getting back into form. And we can't forget marable did beat Burrows once.  No way in hell Marable gets to 65, but might be a chance Schlatter does. He was a rival to Metcalf for so many years that it would be fun on that level alone. There first match must have been ten years ago.

 

IF Humphrey could pack on some muscle he could be an outside threat at 65. He has beaten Logan before, as well as a few others and used to go at it with Gomez from Puerto Rico.  

 

Herbert: love the mullet, really do.....but it might very well be bad luck.  Try anything at this point. I will root you on. Unless you get beat. Then I can't.  LOL

 

86kg: I wonder where Mike Pucillo is. He got back into training, then came out as you most know. then I head nothing. He was a stud in college. Gave Herbert a good match...can train with Snyder and th rest of those big monsters....beat Varner in college for title.

Ruth is a beast to of course

 

Taylor would need to get more beef and horsepower or Sadulaev will throw him around like bam-bam. 

 

57 KG: can any of the young guns get strong enough to challenge Ramos?  Thomasello? Fix? Micic?  Spencer Lee?  Can Coleman Scott even make 57? Will he be able to wrestle effectively if he does?  If he does, he would be hard to beat.  I actually see Thomasello moving up a bit, if not challenging Ramos.  BUt he should get better.  Lee needs to get bigger, more so than anyone else at this weight, but if he does, he could be very dangerous. Micic and Fix are there a bit too.  

Edited by Fishhook

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http://www.dartfish.tv/Player.aspx?CR=p85865c98935m2205496

 

Check this match out from last year's Junior World Championships.  Hits it three times in this match (1:29, 5:49, 6:31)

Thanks.  Not sure what most people would call this.  Limp arm?  It reminds me of watching Bouvaisar Saitiev.

 

Here's what is usually called an Iranian finish (very different):

 

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For that finish, you shelf the leg and then limp arm out. Herbert seems to be trying to get a DEEP seatbelt and power through. 

 

 

Yup. and how does that seem to be working?

 

Quanon, I know what an Iranian finish is.  That's why I put it in quotes.  I don't know what the Iranians call that finish, but it was developed specifically to beat the whizzer/whizzerkick/overhook of the Soviet bloc.

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Quanon, I know what an Iranian finish is.  That's why I put it in quotes.  I don't know what the Iranians call that finish, but it was developed specifically to beat the whizzer/whizzerkick/overhook of the Soviet bloc.

 

Okay.  Thanks for the link (and the clarification).

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Yup. and how does that seem to be working?

 

Quanon, I know what an Iranian finish is.  That's why I put it in quotes.  I don't know what the Iranians call that finish, but it was developed specifically to beat the whizzer/whizzerkick/overhook of the Soviet bloc.

 

He was able to score with it on Ruth, maybe more than once IIRC. But against top world level competition, shelf the leg and limp arm.

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I like your ideas, vhsalum, but I have a tough time seeing Taylor being able to keep up with the size and strength, AFTER the technique, of the guys at 86 kilos. I'd love to see him do it, but I admit I have my reservations. Does anyone have any reliable information on how DT competed against Ed Ruth the last four years?

I had the same thoughts/pessimism, but I thought of perhaps a comparable example. 

Although he finished his career at 174, Bryce Hasseman wrestled most of college as a sucked-down, athletic, wiry 165.  But he always had that wiry gorilla vice-grip natural strength.  When he bulked up after college and wrestled 86kg, he was plenty tall enough to fit the profile of an 86kg, but he brought with him that natural functional strength he'd always had up to the bigger weight.  During his several-year run as our number 2 behind Herbert, Jake and others always talked about how unbelievably strong and physical Bryce was--one of the strongest/most physical 86's in the world at his peak.

All this to say...I don't think a Dake or a Howe could go up to 86kg.  Being 5'8" at 86kg at an elite level seems reserved for freakishly built, freakishly explosive dudes.  But Taylor has the body frame that most definitely could allow him to build up to being plenty big for 86.  Does he have those genes to fill out the weight the way Hasseman did?  Not sure--but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

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Remember when Hrovat started his international career at 67kg or whatever the weight was at the time?  No idea how in the heck he made weight, jumped up two classes and became an Olympian.  Different situation than DT obviously but just popped in my head...

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All this to say...I don't think a Dake or a Howe could go up to 86kg. Being 5'8" at 86kg at an elite level seems reserved for freakishly built, freakishly explosive dudes. But Taylor has the body frame that most definitely could allow him to build up to being plenty big for 86. Does he have those genes to fill out the weight the way Hasseman did? Not sure--but it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Dake is definitely too short for 86 and just couldn't put on the size anyway. He is more of a bulked up 70 kg guy than a pure 74 kg'er as it is, and I have no doubt he would be wrestling that weight if it were an Olympic weight. I don't know about Howe, who cuts more. He is a tweener but a move up is not inconceivable, though I know he intends to stay at 74kg per interviews. Gavin isn't that much bigger than Howe and he was our guy at 86 kg for a bit.

 

Taylor absolutely has the frame to move up, but I don't think he has the time to fill out completely. He is an ectomorph who will probably find it hard to pack on 10 pounds of pure muscle in a year, let alone 20+. I think he'll need a couple of years minimum to fill out optimally. I really wish he would've started a year ago and not now, but I get that Ruth being above him made that very difficult. That said, I'm optimistic that after the Olympics, with more time to transform his body, Taylor could be very competitive at 86kg for a while.

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57kg: Ramos. I would say Scott if he can get down to weight, but his head coaching gig is gonna be very time consuming.

65kg: Metcalf till he is knocked off, but if Green gets down I say he goes. He will be HUGE, and only have one weigh-in. Plus he is new to the scene so his rate of progression should be large. Metcalf is awesome and i would do love him to medal. Gotta respect his love and drive. However, he has been around a bit and is probably well scouted at this point. Everything would have to go right. Green is prob our best shot.

74kg:JB. I dont think the coaching is/will be an issue. Manning and Nebraska will give him what he needs. His presence increases their recruiting.

84kg: if he goes up I think it is DT. If he is gonna go up he will have the resources for weight increase. I don't think it is a huge issue. I love Ruth but you are not a medalist if you aren't 100% committed. Go with DT. At the very least you are putting a guy in who will improve and stick around. Better he doesn't place than Ruth not placing only to be done. It is the best thing for the organization.

197kg: if he train with commitment I see Varner. In happy with Snyder also. Either way strong medal contender.

125kg: Dlagenav most likely. If not I say Don Bradley. He won the US open before the suspension. The trials we're his first time back that I know of so was probably still rusty. I think he wins the challenge tournament if not the US Open. Him and Dlagenav face off imo. If Trevel isn't healthy I say Bradley goes.

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