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Billyhoyle

Dake To 86?

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Where did you read Sadulaev is moving up right now?  He's made it clear that he's eventually moving up (including in the press conference translated for us by wfan on another recently added thread), but I've never seen mention that he's moving up right away. I think he's still going to be at 86 for the Olympic year. 

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I wish he would stay put and go down to 154 after the Olympics. He could be a multiple world champ there.

 

 

 

Of course you do. You don't want him to compete against your boy DT at 86.

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Dake doesn't look much smaller than Herbert to me.  He'll hang.  

 

https://instagram.com/p/7OrBqTjPTz/

 

Sorry for piling on to "heightgate", but it's so hard to make comparisons from photos.  In this photo. Kyle Dake looks a bit shorter than Jake Herbert, who is closer to the camera but slouching.  KD is also standing next to Brandon Precin, who is around 5'3" - 5'4" if I remember correctly.

 

ADsjqz_P.jpg

 

I think Dake's bump up to 86kg makes a bigger statement about the OTT/WTT medalist in the finals rule than anything else. He's as competitive with JB as anyone at the world level, but would rather move up to get a fair shot at the spot than face Burroughs after running through the tournament bracket.

 

I'm also wondering how the bulk-up for both Dake and Taylor will physiologically affect their speed, explosiveness, and flexibility. Seems like to different situations -  KD has been lifting hard all along while DT is going to be adding new muscle mass. Plus, they both have contrasting physiques.

Edited by pamela

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My prediction is that he is at 74 at the trials, especially given that he is not 100% committed to the move yet. It will be harder for him to be fully ready to go at this new weight the longer he waits to kiss 74 goodbye.

 

Dake has a slim chance at being our representative at 74, why wouldn't he go to 86 when he has at least a 50/50 chance of being our representative at 86.

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Dake has a slim chance at being our representative at 74, why wouldn't he go to 86 when he has at least a 50/50 chance of being our representative at 86.

Based on what I know of Dake's mentality, I believe he is weighing his best chance of medaling in the Olympics, not just being able to make the team. I don't think it's just about making the team for Dake. If it doesn't feel as though he can handle the jump to 86 good enough to Be in medal contention, I have no doubt he stays at 74. At least there he knows he has a great chance of medaling if he can find a way to unseat JB.

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Tough to bet against a guy who's accomplished what Dake has, but IMO he does not have the ability to put on enough mass to hang with the bigger guys at 86.  Taylor has a bigger frame will just depend on how much he fills out.  And please let Ed Ruth make a go at Rio just to see some of those matchups.  Also, what is Howe's plan?

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Makes sense. The US system is so staked in favor of a returning champion that takes all the integrity out of the competition. He never truly wrestled Burroughs in a square match, which is tough enough, because the system is so surreally stupid. But it is more than that. Much worse. I got the distinct impression that US wrestling simply doesn't want anyone to beat Burroughs. The 4 point call in the first challenge match was absurd. At some point you clearly realize that US wrestling doesn't want you to win. They sent the message loud and clear to such an extent that Dake said to hell with it. That is about as clear an indictment as anything. Good luck to him.     

Edited by straggler

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We've been over this topic thousands of times.

 

1. Single elimination tournaments don't always yield the "best" wrestler at the end when you have fluke results or injuries mixed in.  We need a balanced system where we can settle the issue on the mat, yet ensure the best of the best that we have to offer are rightfully rewarded with multiple chances to prove they're the best. 

 

2. The data from the last several years show that the "exhausted" winners of the challenge tournaments perform just as well in the second or third finals match against the "rested" champs as they did the first finals match.  What's more, the average mat time for the challenge tournament winners before the finals is typically coming out to a whopping 12 minutes.  And challengers beat champs in the finals series about a third of the time.  

 

If Dake doesn't think he can win the challenge tournament and then beat Burroughs, don't blame the system.  If he's better than Burroughs, he'll win.

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Dake has lost yet another fantasy match up.  Taylor will be too much for him!   LOL

 

No one here is saying DT would beat KD at 86kg - where are you getting that from?

 

And honestly, the Kyle Dake victimization trope is a little old at this point...

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We always hear, champions don't dodge competition, champions don't run from a challenge, etc.   

 

This is a clear opposite of that.   Now I don't necessarily believe champions don't run from or dodge competition, i've seen it done a million times.   I'm just surprised some of yous aren't up in arms about it.  

 

Dake runs from Burroughs to 86 kg and not a peep.   

 

With the above said, I believe Dake is best fit at 74 kg.   I'd like to see him accept the challenge and if he's the best in the world, then knock Burroughs off for the spot.   I think he gets beat domestically at 86 kg, by a slew of competitors, including Taylor.   Or even go Greco.   All the medals are the same and the Olympic experience is also. It would be a shame for Dake to stay home.    

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We always hear, champions don't dodge competition, champions don't run from a challenge, etc.   

 

This is a clear opposite of that.   Now I don't necessarily believe champions don't run from or dodge competition, i've seen it done a million times.   I'm just surprised some of yous aren't up in arms about it.  

 

Dake runs from Burroughs to 86 kg and not a peep.   

 

With the above said, I believe Dake is best fit at 74 kg.   I'd like to see him accept the challenge and if he's the best in the world, then knock Burroughs off for the spot.   I think he gets beat domestically at 86 kg, by a slew of competitors, including Taylor.   Or even go Greco.   All the medals are the same and the Olympic experience is also. It would be a shame for Dake to stay home.    

 

Why would it be a shame for Dake to stay home? What has he accomplished in freestyle that tells you he belongs among the world's elite? I think Dake has a ton of potential. But when it comes to actual performances at tournaments, there isn't much to go on. I hope he wrestles more often in the future so we can see where he's at.

Edited by Katie

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We've been over this

 

2. The data from the last several years show that the "exhausted" winners of the challenge tournaments perform just as well in the second or third finals match against the "rested" champs as they did the first finals match.  What's more, the average mat time for the challenge tournament winners before the finals is typically coming out to a whopping 12 minutes.  And challengers beat champs in the finals series about a third of the time. 

 

Getting mentally and physically prepared for each match probably makes it more grueling than the 12 minutes might indicate though

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Why would it be a shame for Dake to stay home? What has he accomplished in freestyle that tells you he belongs among the world's elite? I think Dake has a ton of potential. But when it comes to actual performances at tournaments, there isn't much to go on. I hope he wrestles more often in the future so we can see where he's at.

 

 

It would be a shame because he is so talented.  

 

Having defeated the multi time world champion Tsargush,

 

having pushed the multi time world champion Burroughs to the brink,

 

and widely regarded as the 2nd best at 74 kg, perhaps capable of medaling on the world stage if he had the chance.   

 

It would be a shame to leave him at home while far inferior wrestlers like Metcalf and Ramos routinely make world teams.   

 

Ideal would be if he could get down to 65 kg, but obviously that isn't going to happen.   It would give us a hammer at a weight class where USA has done ZERO over the past few years.   

 

Again, it would be a shame because USA can use all the help it can get.   Surely this isn't as difficult to grasp as  you're making it out to be, is it?  

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Wait, wouldn't he be running if he sucked to 65 kg?

 

anywhere other than 74 kg, he is running.   

 

Even if he went to greco 74 (do they have a 74) it's running. 

 

freestyle 74 kg is his comfortable weight of choice.   This is where he is trying to make the team.   If he flees from that weight class and picks another weight class, admitting he just is not good enough to win at 74, that's running.  

 

Now if he out grows the weight (Taylor) or he's just too small for the weight, that's another story.   But in this case, we have a clear rivalry between him and Burroughs at 74 kg and Dake just got teched out of the world trials final . 

 

That's running.  

 

Again, not that I have any problem with these guys running from the challenge.   I get it, the challenge thing is something ignorant fans created.   They believe these guys are there to test themselves and be the best.   That is not always the case.   These guys are there to win and they cut a ton of weight (Scott) because they know they can't win otherwise.   

 

Perhaps one day some of yous get that through your heads. 

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