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HokieHWT

Snyder and His Big Check

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How long have you been a reporter or worked in journalism?

 

I've got 20 years ...

 

Telling me how or what I should be reporting or investigating is more self serving than me saying I've got 20 years in the business (eight of those at a major daily newspaper)

 

A few people on a message board and a vocal minority does not a story make. If something becomes news, it becomes news.

Edited by JasonBryant

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I'm with Jason on this, plus a working relationship I have with former Olympic coach, Greg Strobel. Given the resources of Ohio State, I can rest assured they and the NCAA are in full agreement on the matter. The only question is when is the appropriate time to announce the ruling. Since he's basking in the glory for himself, the family and the country, now certainly doesn't seem to be the time.

 

Now, let's to the real bottom of this:  who knows who Billy Hoyle is and when did you first know him?  

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I hardly consider covering wrestling real journalism. We all read wrestling news and we all read real news. Wrestling news is press releases straight from the school SIDs, match by match results, and some rankings. Can't remember a single investigative report from any wrestling media source in my life.

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Lets not get personal or off topic...JB has been great for the sport/put a ton of time into it.  Sounds like you're just trolling him now?

 

 

Anyway, I'm not saying you need to cover the story..Just saying why I'm interested/why I don't think it is as simple as saying the Ohio State compliance office has it under control.  If they have an unannounced agreement with the NCAA, it will be a very interesting rule change in terms of athlete compensation/retaining amateur status.  

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"The only question is when is the appropriate time to announce the ruling. "

 

What ruling? This seems like something that should have already been hashed out by USA Wrestling and the NCAA when the fund was initiated. If not, then it certainly should have been hashed out when Snyder won the WTTs. If the rule was indeed in place, why keep it secret?

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I hardly consider covering wrestling real journalism. We all read wrestling news and we all read real news. Wrestling news is press releases straight from the school SIDs, match by match results, and some rankings. Can't remember a single investigative report from any wrestling media source in my life.

 

Oh what to say, what to say ... other than climb out of the vortex and educate yourself a little bit more on the people you insult. 

 

Billy, the question is time. Do I spend anywhere from 5-25 hours chasing down a potential story and then come to the finalization that my initial hunch was correct, there's "nothing" here and it's exactly what we thought it would be? No, in my situation, only when something questionable happens does the time payoff for something like that actually make sense. If I'm being assigned to dig by an editor, that's one thing, but that isn't the role I currently have. Is the time worth the end result in this case? I have a hunch there's nothing to see here. I have nothing to tell my gut otherwise (other than some bad nachos). 

 

I've always got a few irons in the fire. Sometimes they take longer to develop than others. Example: The Mike Pucillo piece I wrote last year took about six-seven months to develop. I had a good lead there. I spent the time on that story because it was something new, whether or not if you agree or disagree with it. 

 

If Snyder becomes ineligible, then the story is something more. If he stays eligible, it's exactly what it was before and exactly what it was after. 

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If Snyder becomes ineligible, then the story is something more. If he stays eligible, it's exactly what it was before and exactly what it was after. 

 

But isn't the how the real story? I know nothing of what you do, not my field, but how he would remain eligible is going to be groundbreaking for NCAA competitors. If he is ineligible then we have a national story, like the kicker from Colorado. We need more national stories, in my opinion, and it would be nice if a wrestling journalist broke it rather than some schmuck. I think this is ESPN worthy.

 

Edited by HokieHWT

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JB, you do great work.  No need to cover this story if you have better things going on.  Maybe somebody else will look into it?  I dunno, but it's at least interesting to discuss on here.  

 

But isn't the how the real story? I know nothing of what you do, not my field, but how he would remain eligible is going to be groundbreaking for NCAA competitors. If he is ineligible then we have a national story, like the kicker from Colorado. We need more national stories, in my opinion, and it would be nice if a wrestling journalist broke it rather than some schmuck. I think this is ESPN worthy.

 

 

Exactly. The "how" is why I'm curious.  From a simple reading of the rules, it is a no brainer that he cannot accept the money.  If the NCAA allows it, and tOSU thinks that they will, what is the  new precedent that they are setting?  How does it apply to other sports (Football/Basketball/Track/Gymnastics)?  Maybe it's not a great story (i'm not a journalist or in the media, so JB would know better than me what would make a worthwhile story), but it's at least seems interesting to me.  I just think the implications are too big for the NCAA to allow it, and until there is an official announcement or somebody finds a rule that I have missed, I will be under the impression that he will have to forfeit the money to compete. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I don't think we'll fully know the deal until Snyder returns to tOSU. As it stands right now, everything is speculation and I won't dig here unless there's something to be found in the bottom of the hole. 

 

Plenty of time for this to really develop, since we're basing a lot of this discussion off a press release by USA Wrestling. Plenty of time later, if there needs to be. 

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Here's what I posted shortly after worlds on the topic...

 

My understanding is that Operation Gold and Living the Dream are different entities.  Operation Gold is referenced in the NCAA rule book as a US Olympic Committee program.  Living the Dream is not a USOC program, it is a USA Wrestling program.  This may be semantics, but we're talking about the NCAA... (?)...

 

12.1.2.1 Prohibited Forms of Pay.

 “Pay,” as used in Bylaw 12.1.2 above, includes, but is not limited to, the following:

 

12.1.2.1.4 Expenses, Awards and Benefits.

 Excessive or improper expenses, awards and benefits.

 

12.1.2.1.4.1 Cash or Equivalent Award.

 Cash, or the equivalent thereof (e.g., trust fund), as an award for participation in competition at any time, even if such an award is permitted under the rules governing an amateur, noncollegiate event in which the individual is participating. An award or a cash prize that an individual could not receive under NCAA legislation may not be forwarded in the individual’s name to a different individual or agency.

(Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02)

 

12.1.2.1.4.1.2  Operation Gold Grant. 

An individual (prospective student-athlete or student-athlete) may accept funds that are administered by the U.S. Olympic Committee pursuant to the Operation Gold program.

(Adopted: 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01)

 

12.1.2.1.5 Payment Based on Performance.

 Any payment conditioned on the individual’s or team’s place finish or performance or given on an incentive basis that exceeds actual and necessary expenses, or receipt of expenses in excess of the same reasonable amount for permissible expenses given to all individuals or team members involved in the competition.

(Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13)

 

12.1.2.1.5.1 Operation Gold Grant.

 An individual (prospective student-athlete or student-athlete) may accept funds that are administered by the U.S. Olympic Committee pursuant to its Operation Gold program.

(Adopted: 4/26/01)

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I thought Eric Larkin was able to defer his winnings for winning the Sunkist Open, it was placed in a trust or something he wasn't allowed to get at until he finished his eligibility.  I just figured that's what Snyder would do here.  The LTD Fund would just pay the money to a trust and then turn it over tim him when he completes his eligibility, whether that's in 4 years or after Rio next year. 

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I thought Eric Larkin was able to defer his winnings for winning the Sunkist Open, it was placed in a trust or something he wasn't allowed to get at until he finished his eligibility.  I just figured that's what Snyder would do here.  The LTD Fund would just pay the money to a trust and then turn it over tim him when he completes his eligibility, whether that's in 4 years or after Rio next year. 

Let's hope so.

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Let's hope so.

 

Since I'm no Ohio State fan, I don't really care one way or another whether Kyle Snyder gets to wrestle collegiately.  If he cant, I'll get to see him compete internationally more.  However, I do think, however this shakes out, Kyle deserves to have his education for free at Ohio State.  He's done so much for that program already.

 

As far as the trust is concerned, why don't we just set up trusts for every superstar football recruit through booster donations?  This issue is very sticky.  Where the money comes from and its magnitude is very important, regardless of when the student athlete gets to touch that money.  My guess is that, if Snyder wrestles again for Ohio St, there will be a financial compromise of sorts.

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I thought Eric Larkin was able to defer his winnings for winning the Sunkist Open, it was placed in a trust or something he wasn't allowed to get at until he finished his eligibility.  I just figured that's what Snyder would do here.  The LTD Fund would just pay the money to a trust and then turn it over tim him when he completes his eligibility, whether that's in 4 years or after Rio next year. 

That's interesting.  I haven't heard of this situation.  If you look at lu_alum's post above though, you see this paragraph:

 

12.1.2.1.4.1 Cash or Equivalent Award.

 Cash, or the equivalent thereof (e.g., trust fund), as an award for participation in competition at any time, even if such an award is permitted under the rules governing an amateur, noncollegiate event in which the individual is participating. An award or a cash prize that an individual could not receive under NCAA legislation may not be forwarded in the individual’s name to a different individual or agency.

(Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02)

 

It seems that the NCAA considers a trust fund equivalent to cash.  

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Interesting thread. I thought it was a given he could defer it and put it in a trust. I'd feel bad for Snyder if he is declared ineligible, I believe him when he says that he wants to come back and win an NCAA title. He's not taking sponsors, he's not agreeing to purses beforehand for a match/tournament, his intent was not to make money off of his athletics. Either way, if he had the option to decline the money and it ends up making him ineligible, that was his choice. 

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I humbly disagree with Jason. This is a story. I would very much like a journalist to investigate and explain how something like this is ok.

 

Note, I think it should be. Winning a world championship is a big deal and these kids should be able to get a prize. Just like the Olympic waiver.

 

However, nothing I have read here suggests he can get the money, trust or otherwise.

 

Story should be on college athletes winning huge events and finding a way to keep the award money, despite what some people think. There is a real story here. I understand if from Jason's perspective it is low on his priority list.

 

And maybe, just maybe, there is a desire amongst parties to not shine a light on this. I don't know.

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I humbly disagree with Jason. This is a story. I would very much like a journalist to investigate and explain how something like this is ok.

 

Note, I think it should be. Winning a world championship is a big deal and these kids should be able to get a prize. Just like the Olympic waiver.

 

However, nothing I have read here suggests he can get the money, trust or otherwise.

 

Story should be on college athletes winning huge events and finding a way to keep the award money, despite what some people think. There is a real story here. I understand if from Jason's perspective it is low on his priority list.

 

And maybe, just maybe, there is a desire amongst parties to not shine a light on this. I don't know.

It's as if someone is expecting negative consequences as a result of pursuing answers to the questions posed here.

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If you're so concerned send an email or call Ohio State compliance or their SID. There is no doubt they are on top of it and there won't be some shocking surprise.

 

No, the world's aren't significant enough to warrant college kids accepting prize money. The Olympic exemption is more than generous. If you want to go pro then do it. But don't expect to be able to be a pro athlete and have your housing, education, meals, training, and competition paid for by student fees so you can live a comfortable life while doing it.

 

The reason so many football and basketball stars return to college after great years where they are projected to be drafted is because the chances of them actually making it are very slim and they have more money guaranteed to them than a wrestler seeking an Olympic bid.

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"If you're so concerned send an email or call Ohio State compliance or their SID. There is no doubt they are on top of it and there won't be some shocking surprise"

 

Out of my purview. Contacting SIDs is the job of reporters. How about, instead, a message sent to the folks who administer the fund. Maybe they have a website.

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"If you're so concerned send an email or call Ohio State compliance or their SID. There is no doubt they are on top of it and there won't be some shocking surprise"

 

Out of my purview. Contacting SIDs is the job of reporters. How about, instead, a message sent to the folks who administer the fund. Maybe they have a website.

To ask if he accepted the money? Not sure they would comment.

 

It isn't the fund's policy that is an issue. The issue is if, while adhering to the policies they made through the NCAA in an effort to have a uniform standard for collegiate sports, Ohio State will permit him to compete. Only Ohio State can make that call.

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Most of these educated responses are helping sway my thought process, but from where I sit, this is not as big as people are making it out to be .... right now. Still a year before Snyder re-enrolls and becomes an NCAA athlete again. Lots of time for this to develop. Writing anything investigative right now brings no closure and no resolution because they key topics aren't even close to being finalized.

 

Right now, it's not a good usage of my time to invest time heavily on say, part 2 of a 10 part process when there is a long way before parts 3-9 even unfold. Anything beyond right now, with an athlete who is not currently wrestling for an NCAA team, is more fortune telling in my opinion.

 

Later on, when more "parts" fit into place, then you can start there and have the same lead in as you can then.

 

SIDs outside of the power sports don't provide much. Some do, but that's more based on your professional relationships. I've gotten scoops from SIDs and I've been shut out.

 

Lot of moving parts ... that aren't even moving yet.

 

I do appreciate the educated feedback from those who aren't trying to tell me how to do my job, provided they actually can define what "my job" is in their opinion. I own my company, I make the editorial calls in a different format than traditional print media but also use my experience to understand when and where to follow up and release something, whether it be a written story or a podcast.

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Serious question: If you were Kyle's parents, would you want him to go back to college wrestling?  

 

I don't think I would.

 

He can remain at OSU, take classes, and train with the RTC.  He wouldn't have to suffer through the grind of the college season where he would risk injury and burnout and limit his progression in freestyle.  

 

He's already proven himself in folkstyle.  Time to move on.

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Serious question: If you were Kyle's parents, would you want him to go back to college wrestling?  

 

I don't think I would.

 

He can remain at OSU, take classes, and train with the RTC.  He wouldn't have to suffer through the grind of the college season where he would risk injury and burnout and limit his progression in freestyle.  

 

He's already proven himself in folkstyle.  Time to move on.

 

Not that I like the idea from a fan's perspective, but this is the path that I would take if I were Snyder.  There's nothing to stop him from quitting the team, becoming an assistant of some sort, and get paid/train as a resident athlete at the RTC - he'd still be able to take classes at his own pace (without worrying about minimum credit loads to maintain eligibility), graduate and compete internationally.

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