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IronChef

Dake to 86kg for good

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I can see why some people believe Taylor may gain advantage over Dake at 86kg because of his frame and length. I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor beats him, but all data at this point would make me put my money on Dake until Taylor actually proves that he can beat him.

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How many coaching opportunities do you think Dake has received? 

 

Dake would be an awesome coach. I sat next to him at a tournament. He gave specific, moment-by-moment advice to a teammate. It was damned impressive. Plus, he'd be a great recruiter of kids and, even more so, of their moms.

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Dake would be an awesome coach. I sat next to him at a tournament. He gave specific, moment-by-moment advice to a teammate. It was damned impressive. Plus, he'd be a great recruiter of kids and, even more so, of their moms.

I totally agree. I feel this way about Dake, Taylor, and Burroughs. I think they would all be tremendous coaches, and would love to see recruiting battles between them. All very outgoing and personable. What kid wouldn't want to wrestle for any one of these guys..

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So let me get this straight....it is a good thing for Taylor to move up, but not for Dake....got it?!?!  (sarcasm)

 

 

Taylor has outgrown the weight, of course he has to move up.  Like when Varner moved up from 86 to 97, he was just too big, and he promptly wins the Olympic Gold.   These guys grow, and in Taylor's case, he just can't put his body through the cut any longer.   Dake on the other hand, is small for the weight.   His motivation to move up is to run from Burroughs,   Surely you can figure this out, Big? 

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I'm really shocked to see a competitor like Kyle Dake running from someone and not taking the challenge to take out Burroughs. 

 

Just listening to Dake's interviews before world team trials he was committed to taking 74 and not moving up. what changed ? This is clearly running, at least Taylor it could be argued was a legitimate weight issue to stay at 74.

 

 

I feel like Dake was pretty close to Burroughs at the trials  - That first match came down to a ref call , could of gone either way

The second came down to the first second and a bunch of points off a leg lace which completely changed the complexion of that match and Dake's gameplan. 

 

Without that leglace or questionable call in the first bout, maybe Dake beats him ?

 

 

 

 

 

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See Burroughs.

See Taylor and Dake.

See boys run.

Run boys, run.

 

Both boys undersized.

See Dake not care.

 

See Taylor run.

Run Taylor run.

 

Ha!  Every thread should be written like a "Fun with Dick and Jane" story.

 

Fun with Darrion and Brent

 

CalmJoyfulAntelopegroundsquirrel.gif

 

See Darrion

See Darrion run

See Brent chase

Chase, Brent, chase

 

See Darrion

See Darrion flip

See Brent shove

Shove, Brent, shove

 

See ref

See ref penalize

Penalize ref, penalize

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Ha!  Every thread should be written like a "Fun with Dick and Jane" story.

 

Fun with Darrion and Brent

 

CalmJoyfulAntelopegroundsquirrel.gif

 

See Darrion

See Darrion run

See Brent chase

Chase, Brent, chase

 

See Darrion

See Darrion flip

See Brent shove

Shove, Brent, shove

 

See ref

See ref penalize

Penalize ref, penalize

 

 

 

This was another black eye for the program at Iowa.   As a Metcalf fan, I was very disturbed to see him express his frustration, with such a petty and immature reaction.   And while we have to hold Brent accountable for exposing his true character, more important to remember is he was merely a 22 year old kid.   His coaches are the real ones to blame.  They encourage their guys to be jerks.   I didn't like Brent for at least  good 3 or 4 months, over those shenanigans  

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The most muscle mass ever gained in a year is 8 pounds, measured scientifically, using steroids. I think Taylor stands a better shot of growing into 86. It looks like Taylor won't be able to go down to 74 but I think Dake could up to the trials. USA still has to qualify at 86 so who knows it might not matter. With Dakes defense I think he will still be good at 86. Taylor might benefit the most at 86 with having less oxygen and glycogen sucking fast twitch muscles from not being able to lift and cutting over the years. Dake having been able to lift might not benefit from going up to 86.

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The most muscle mass ever gained in a year is 8 pounds, measured scientifically, using steroids. I think Taylor stands a better shot of growing into 86. It looks like Taylor won't be able to go down to 74 but I think Dake could up to the trials. USA still has to qualify at 86 so who knows it might not matter. With Dakes defense I think he will still be good at 86. Taylor might benefit the most at 86 with having less oxygen and glycogen sucking fast twitch muscles from not being able to lift and cutting over the years. Dake having been able to lift might not benefit from going up to 86.

Do you have a source for this? Didn't Brock Lesnar go from wrestling 180lbs to wrestling heavyweight in one year or something like that?

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Wouldn't another rationale behind this move is to make the lineup for Team USA stronger at Rio?  Dake, Taylor, or Ruth at 86 KG seem to be a step in the right direction especially when we have Burroughs below them.  In my opinion two medals for our team is better than 1.  Of course, like someone said previously, we have to qualify the weight first otherwise this is just smoke. 

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Regarding the science of weight gain (billyhoyle/others): no one said you can't gain much more than 8 pounds, nor did anyone say that your starting point of muscle mass isn't at your natural weight rather than your sucked down weight.  If Lesnar was naturally 210  but sucked down to 180, it's not ridiculous to think he could grow into 230 in a year (some muscle, some fat), considering he was still at an age of naturally growing as well.  This is the same situation with Taylor.  He was already, without sucking weight, hanging around 190 or 195.  If he pushes that natural size up 15 pounds (6-8 pounds of muscle, some bone density, and a little fat) to 210, then cuts the fat down to 189 for competitons--he can fit the weight quite nicely.  As others have said, Dake's situation of already lifting and maybe being not far from his naturally largest weight makes it more of an uphill battle.

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I can't remember where I found that. Keep in mind that 8lbs if muscle will increase a guys ability to store glycogen and water. So 8 pounds will probably translate to 15 pounds or so on the scale. I don't know much about Lesnar other than his accomplishments on the mat and in the ring.

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For those who are knowledgeable about sports nutrition and weight management: is this really a permanent move for Kyle Dake? Meaning, if he eats & trains to be competitive at 86kg, could he change his mind in the future and cut back down to 74kg? Or would he have altered his body physiologically (and changed his wrestling style) to a point where he couldn't move back down?

 

 

The most muscle mass ever gained in a year is 8 pounds, measured scientifically, using steroids. I think Taylor stands a better shot of growing into 86. It looks like Taylor won't be able to go down to 74 but I think Dake could up to the trials. USA still has to qualify at 86 so who knows it might not matter. With Dakes defense I think he will still be good at 86. Taylor might benefit the most at 86 with having less oxygen and glycogen sucking fast twitch muscles from not being able to lift and cutting over the years. Dake having been able to lift might not benefit from going up to 86.

 

 

Regarding the science of weight gain (billyhoyle/others): no one said you can't gain much more than 8 pounds, nor did anyone say that your starting point of muscle mass isn't at your natural weight rather than your sucked down weight.  If Lesnar was naturally 210  but sucked down to 180, it's not ridiculous to think he could grow into 230 in a year (some muscle, some fat), considering he was still at an age of naturally growing as well.  This is the same situation with Taylor.  He was already, without sucking weight, hanging around 190 or 195.  If he pushes that natural size up 15 pounds (6-8 pounds of muscle, some bone density, and a little fat) to 210, then cuts the fat down to 189 for competitons--he can fit the weight quite nicely.  As others have said, Dake's situation of already lifting and maybe being not far from his naturally largest weight makes it more of an uphill battle.

 

Thanks, guys - I was wondering about that.

 

So I'm also assuming that, hypothetically speaking, if Kyle Dake lifts/eats his way up to 86kg in 2016 then decides in 2017 to drop back down to 74kg, it is still possible and not physiologically irreversible?

Edited by pamela

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I don't know much about how international wrestlers certify at a weight but if it's pretty relaxed then it's possible for Dake to suck down, but id hire a pro cause it could kill him. Eating and lifting could cause them both to grow height and frame wise. I don't have any inner knowledge of what Kyles weights are I'm just speculating. I think Taylor based off of his flo videos is done at 74. After 2016 I think they both are done with 74. They both will be to big.

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They won't grow in height--that's done.  But lifting weights more or in different ways stimulates release of natural testosterone which of course helps muscle growth, but also helps bone density--a key component of naturally fitting a larger weight.  

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Thanks, guys - I was wondering about that.

 

So I'm also assuming that, hypothetically speaking, if Kyle Dake lifts/eats his way up to 86kg in 2016 then decides in 2017 to drop back down to 74kg, it is still possible and not physiologically irreversible?

Definitely not.  All he has to do is diet and stop lifting.  Gained muscle and bone density will eventually come right back off.

 

I have a good friend who was 5'6" and a ripped 160 walk-around weight while wrestling in college.  In his mid-20s he shifted fully to endurance sports and eventually marathons.  At his peak in marathons, only 5 years after college, he was walking around at 125 pounds while eating enormous amounts of food and running a 2:30 marathon.  You can re-shape your body in very dramatic ways up and down with the right nutrition and the right type of workouts.

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Gotcha, thank you! It's amazing how far sports nutrition has come - I wonder if it would have been possible 20 years ago?

 

The reason why I was asking about Dake bumping up and then possibly back down is because I overheard a debate long ago where someone said Ronda Rousey could not bump up to a next weight class to fight that weight's champion (not the woman who knocked her out last week, but a Brazilian[?] fighter whose name I can't remember right now) because once she adds the additional muscle she would not be able to cut back down to her original weight.

 

Anyway, this makes me feel better about Dake's options. I know Jordan Burroughs says he's all in until 2020, but you can never tell where his career may go if he strikes gold again -- endorsement deals, Hollywood, coaching, MMA, merchandising, appearances, etc. (or, heaven forbid, injury).

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Off topic - Women are different from guys, rousey would be at a distinct disadvantage going up a weight. She shouldn't do it. But she would be able to suck down to her normal weight it would just take her longer to pack on muscle to go up a weight, a lot longer.

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