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Yet another bit of evidence weight cutting should be stopped

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As long as there are competitions with weight restrictions you will ALWAYS have problems with weight cutting. Every "best intention and idea" isn't going to stop it. The only thing I can see is making healthy weight management classes mandatory. Educate every competitor throughout each season and make them 100% responsible for their decisions.

 

More rules won't stop it, but proper education may limit the most dangerous aspects of it.

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Proper education is not going to help much when that education discourages dehydration which is how 99.99% of cutters cut in wrestling. That would be a well-intentioned but futile rule.

 

There is no way to eliminate cutting. Even mat-side weighins will only reduce it a bit just like 1-hour weigh-ins reduced it from old rules but failed to even come close to eliminating it. It is better than it used to be though. But now that 1-hour weigh-ins are about as punitive to cutters as any rule will be, current levels of cutting are unlikely to be substantially diminished.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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No but the difference between underwear once an hour before and full gear every time you have to get on the mat is much bigger than you think. It will shift more guys up a weight than you realize.    

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Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but the full gear argument is just stupid You're arguing that there will be less cutting because now you're going to add clothes to the weighins? That's just unreal. Yes, if you add a 2-3 lb artificial handicap, kids will move up. But what do you think they'll do once they settle into the "new" (+2-3 lb) weight classes? They'll be right back cutting weight.

 

Kids will also move up in weight if you make the weight classes 122, 130, 138, 146.... Is that a real solution to weight cutting issues??

 

As for once a day versus 3-4x/day in March, sure that is more significant. But I still don't think you'll see the near elimination of cutting you think would happen. Kids will still cut a lot.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Must be gear on. Efficiency for the process of weighing in and wrestling. I don't think some realize that kids pull and suffer through duals cause 1 hr only pertains to the first match. Tournaments have 2 hours plus however long it takes for them to wrestle.

 

Matside will make a huge difference.

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Matside, every match. .... Will make a huge difference. Am open to small allowance for long tournament. Details TBD.

 

Apply in HS, college and international.

 

Will make a difference and reduce deep cuts.

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There's only 1 way to guarantee that wrestlers aren't dehydrating to make weight, and that's to hydration (urine) test at weigh-ins.  It's totally impractical, but completely do-able.  Go to 1.5 hr weigh-ins before competition, and use that extra 30 min. to hydration test their samples.  No sample, stage fright, or fail the test, then they don't get to wrestle.  I doubt this will ever happen, but if they're serious about stopping weight-cutting through dehydrating, then this would be the solution.

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getting on the scale will be part of checking in for each match. it would change the entire paradigm of weight management. wrestlers will figure how to be as healthy and effective as possible in their pursuit to to carry themselves at a lean competitive weight. wrestlers will need more disciplined than ever.

 

as most of us know it is way more difficult to be healthy nearly 100% time compared to the the binge cycles currently employed. by default wrestlers, coaches and parents will have to be educated and educate themselves about proper nutrition and training. there will be no more short cuts. wrestlers who attempt old school methods will weed themselves extinct with their ineffectiveness in competition.

 

its such a simple solution. the fact that we don't have mat side weigh ins is an illustration that the people in charge at all levels really don't care about a wrestler's well being.

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although my response is more applicable to high school, have not gotten great response to weight control questions on that forum, and these concepts could be tweaked for college...

 

Matside Weigh-Ins, Growth Allowances and Weight Classes

 

Matside Wegh Ins

 

1. Increase all weight classes by 2 pounds to allow for singlets, shoes, headgear etc

2. Procedures will vary slightly based on dual meet (or multi dual) and individually bracketed tournaments (see below)

3. Dual Meet Procedure

A. Weigh in when reporting to table ready to wrestle

B. For a dual tourney or multi dual, wrestler can’t compete in more than 2 different weight classes for the event.  Wrestler may compete in class for which qualifies OR may wrestle up 1 (one weight class) above which initial weigh in of the event allows.  Ex:  Wrestler A makes 132 for first dual.  This allows him to wrestle 132 or 138 during event, provided he makes weight for subsequent rounds.  If he does not make 132, he may still wrestle 138, but MAY NOT wrestle 145.

C. Weigh ins will be held prior to each “odd” round of the dual multi meet.  Scratch weight for round one, with one additional pound for round #3 and a second additional pound for round #5, with dual tourney allowing 1 pound for semis and one extra for medal round (finals and 3/5/7)

4. Individually Bracketed Tournament Procedure

A. Initial matside weigh in prior to first round matches (including all wrestlers receiving byes).

B. One pound allowance for semi-finals (and corresponding consolation round of consi quarters) and additional second pound for championship finals (and consi medal round).  Maintain additional pound for 2nd day of event, and for 2-day events add 1 pound for quarterfinals and corresponding consi round.

C. Weigh in to take place matside.  Scales at each mat if possible, or between mats if enough scales not available.  Wrestler failing to make weight on designated scale may make 1 attempt at each other available scale.

D.   Any wrestler failing to make weight for first round is considered a scratch.

E. Any wrestler failing to make weight for the semifinals (or corresponding consi round) is considered a forfeit.  Team does not lose all points earned for that wrestler, and wrestler may continue in the tournament if weight is made for next round (even if that round does not require a weigh in).  Ex:  Wrestler B fails to make weight for the semifinals.  He drops down to the consi semis, and must make the same weight he was required to make for the championship semis in order to compete in the consi round.  

 

Growth Allowances

 

  1. As originally intended, growth allowances are well suited for high school wrestlers who are still growing.  However, the terminology and implementation has changed over the years.  The following re-establishes a true growth allowance.

  2. Weight certification process that determines a minimum weight based on 7% for males and 12% for females must be based on establishing a minimum weight class that reflects scratch weight classes at the start of the season.  Ex:  Wrestler A has an initial certification that determines his body fat would permit him to wrestle at a minimum of 134 pounds.  This would not permit him to wrestle in the 132 pound weight class even after the “growth allowances” are implemented and the weight class becomes 134.  Growth allowances are intended to allow for growth--not intended to permit wrestling at a lower weight class.

  3. Due to varying start dates in each state, the following is an attempt to provide a consistent growth allowance schedule that covers the regular and post-season.  Dates are based on an approximation, but would be the Sunday that is nearest the 15th of the month.

    1. Scratch weight classes for November 15 (ie 106)

    2. One pound allowance on December 15 (ie 106 becomes 107)

    3. One additional pound on January 15 (ie 106 is now 108)

    4. One additional pound on February 15 (ie 106 is now 109)

    5. One additional pound on March 15

 

Weight Classes--will save this for another day on the hs forum...

 

106

116

124

132

140

148

158

170

186

210

285

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There is a lot of difference between UFC and College or High School weigh-ins.  There is more similarities between UFC and Olympic/World Freestyle/Greco weigh-ins.  The timeframe between UFC and oly/world is much larger, therefore making it possible to recover water/electrolytes/glycogen after making a hard cut.  There is a science to it.  The sauna-suits and diuretics is a bad idea.  There are better ways to lose the water weight.  The top tier UFC cutting specialists are expensive but most of the guys use them because if they mess up they could die.

 

In college/highschool with the 1hr weigh-ins its a completely different thing.  A wrestler cannot recover enough water/electrolytes/glycogen in 1 hour + the time it takes to get to their match.   The nutrition aspect to things is much more important.  Secondary is  fine tuning and repeatedly making a weight.  The more times a wrestler makes a weight the more the body acclimates to making the weight.  Once the body is conditioned to do so the wrestler will perform better.  It just takes time.

 

Bottom line is, in HS and College there are safeguards and accountability built into the weight class systems.   Some people might think they are a joke, but nobody is dying trying to make weight, at least as far as i have heard.

 

If people want to take things to another level hooke them into a bf-comp machine and  make sure they have a minimum water weight percentage when they weigh in.  If they are not sufficiently hydrated they are scratched and lose their certification.  Having matside in full gear weighins will just make for crappy wrestling.

 

Just my two cents.

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We no longer have weight cutting issues. The weight cert process gaurantees that we do not have anyone in HS or college cutting too much weight. Wrestlers that gas out just have to be more disciplined and manage the weight that they certified.

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2lb gear allowance? probably a half pound difference or more between size 10 and 16 sweat soaked shoes. 

 

Give it up. It is silly and people will still try to cut weight if they have to make the team that way.  

 

Oh and how about having umpteen more forfeits.  

Edited by OtisCampbell

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We no longer have weight cutting issues. The weight cert process gaurantees that we do not have anyone in HS or college cutting too much weight. Wrestlers that gas out just have to be more disciplined and manage the weight that they certified.

 

Jstock, unfortunaely I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not(I do not have a good sarcasm meter).  But anyone who says the cert process works, is kidding themselves.  Most cheat the hydration, and the ones that dont are JV(high school) or back ups that do not really care what weight they get certified.

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Roadkill - yes, I was being sarcastic. Schools keep paying the NWCA for this automated weight cert process that is flawed. They are collecting a huge sums of money every year for an automated program that is similar to a loan amortization chart where the purchaser does all the work and data entry. The theory was sold as a tool in the name of children's safety which would be politically incorrect to vote against. The process is just a fund raiser where it seems that everyone has just accepted the responsibility to send in their check to be used so the NWCA can continue their efforts to grow the sport.

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The weight cert. program doesn't work because they only have to pass a hydration test (which has questionable validity) one time all year.  Then they start eating again (with their endocrine cycles all effed up)  and also re-hydrate so they gain about 15-25lbs on average.  Then they can pull as much weight as necessary from Sunday to Friday/Sat morning, as long as their weigh-in weight doesn't change >1.5% week to week. 

 

The simple fact that the worst cut is always for certification should prove that the whole program is nonsense. 

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