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Michigan Ironman

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Are there any other states that restricts the travel of their high school sports teams like Michigan. I believe it's something like you can participate in any competition 300 miles or more, or if any other team competing is further than 300 miles. I would love to see some of Michigan's top teams wrestling at Ironman but since there are teams from all over that attend that disqualifies anyone from Michigan from wrestling. If someone know why this rule is in place or has the exact rule please let me know. 

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IHSAA's 300-Mile Travel Limit Keeps Hoops Teams Close To Home

 

IndyStar.com

 

 

With the proliferation of high school basketball games on television -- ESPN will show more than 20 this season -- the opportunity occasionally comes for teams from Indiana.

But Indiana High School Athletic Association bylaws don't allow schools to compete against programs located more than 300 miles from the state border.

ESPN's lineup this year included the City of the Palms Tournament in Florida and the Hoophall Classic in Springfield, Mass., two national tournaments that are outside the 300-mile limit.

New IHSAA commissioner Bobby Cox said he's open to discussing the travel rule if member schools express an interest, but he believes there is no need to travel beyond the 300-mile boundary to find teams to play.

"We have plenty of schools in our own state to play," Cox said. "When you travel farther than that, you're probably going to compromise class time. We're supposed to be out for education first and if we're going to remove a restriction that would allow a team to leave during a school day, I think we're compromising education. I don't think we have to go 12 hours to find a game to play."

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For the kids that plan on attending college and get a degree as well as play a sport are going to have to learn to balance all the travel and competition with academics and I believe this gives them a jump start on living that life style. I'm always academics first with my kids but if they are lucky enough to play sports in college there is going to be some getting used to all the travel and academics. 

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You are preaching to the choir here.

Those darn commissioners restricting competition.

Just to use Indiana as an example, the far Northwest corner of Indiana is 35 minutes from Chicago.

Yet any high school sports teams from nearby Indiana cannot compete in a Chicago tournament if any team there is from 300 miles away.

But they can drive 200 plus miles to Southern Indiana and spend way more time on the road.

Yup. Non sense in some cases.

Edited by legger

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You are preaching to the choir here.

Those darn commissioners restricting competition.

Just to use Indiana as an example, the far Northwest corner of Indiana is 35 minutes from Chicago.

Yet any high school sports teams from nearby Indiana cannot compete in a Chicago tournament if any team there is from 300 miles away.

But they can drive 200 plus miles to Southern Indiana and spend way more time on the road.

Yup. Non sense in some cases.

The stipulation that Indiana can't compete in an event against an individual/team that come from beyond the 300 round trip point is one of the most ridiculous rules the athletic commission has. on Why should Indianas state association care what other state associations or states schools decide to do with their athlete travel plans. As long as it not affecting Indiana athletes by causing them to miss class time or be on the road a crazy length of time then it shouldn't matter. It especially hurts individual sports ability to compete since most travel events are tournament with multiple teams competing (from different locations) where as team sports against one or two scheduled schools. Edited by MadMardigain

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Not to be picky here, but it appears Indiana rules state that you cannot travel more than 300 miles past the state line, not from their home town.  Which means, once they cross the state line, the 300 mile rule kicks in.  Am I reading it wrong?

 

As for Ohio, unless they changed the rules, I did not think they had restrictions.  When Lebron played in HS, they traveled all over the country if memory serves. 

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Not to be picky here, but it appears Indiana rules state that you cannot travel more than 300 miles past the state line, not from their home town.  Which means, once they cross the state line, the 300 mile rule kicks in.  Am I reading it wrong?

 

As for Ohio, unless they changed the rules, I did not think they had restrictions.  When Lebron played in HS, they traveled all over the country if memory serves. 

 

 

Sir You are correct.

 

Good article below about Indiana and other states...

 

#high school travel restrictions

 

http://usatodayhss.com/2014/another-state-indiana-rules-out-playing-in-high-school-bowl-games

Edited by legger

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The stipulation that Indiana can't compete in an event against an individual/team that come from beyond the 300 round trip point is one of the most ridiculous rules the athletic commission has. on Why should Indianas state association care what other state associations or states schools decide to do with their athlete travel plans. As long as it not affecting Indiana athletes by causing them to miss class time or be on the road a crazy length of time then it shouldn't matter. It especially hurts individual sports ability to compete since most travel events are tournament with multiple teams competing (from different locations) where as team sports against one or two scheduled schools.

 

Agreed.

This crazy rule hampers the state itself.

Indianapolis is pretty centrally located and could host some premier high school national events but any team farther than 300 miles is off the invite list. A bit outdated since plenty of private schools and boosters could pay for air fare.

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Dumb question...which states are precluded from wrestling in the Ironman?

 

Alaska: State Qualifying tournaments are this weekend

Connecticut: Not allowed to compete until this Monday

Indiana: 300-mile rule

Iowa: Restricted to bordering states plus Kansas

Michigan: 350-mile rule

Minnesota: Restricted to four-team events beyond bordering states

Mississippi: Does not sponsor high school wrestling

New Jersey: Not allowed to compete until next Friday

 

Any others?

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Are there any other states that restricts the travel of their high school sports teams like Michigan. I believe it's something like you can participate in any competition 300 miles or more, or if any other team competing is further than 300 miles. I would love to see some of Michigan's top teams wrestling at Ironman but since there are teams from all over that attend that disqualifies anyone from Michigan from wrestling. If someone know why this rule is in place or has the exact rule please let me know. 

In Michigan, it's even worse than you report.

 

Michigan teams can attend events only in states which border Michigan (Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin)

Michigan teams cannot travel more than 300 miles from the border

All teams attending must border the state in which the event is held

All teams attending must not have traveled more than 300 miles from their border to the event.

 

Edit: Examle--Stevenson Lakeshore is about 90 miles from Chicago, but cannot compete in any tournament in Chicago.  However, Lakeshore can compete in a tournament in Green Bay, Wi--300 miles away, because Wisconsin borders Michigan. And the odd part, the team has to drive through Chicago to get there. 

 

A few years back, a tournament that my hometown has attended for 20 years, had to pull out of the event. It was in Ohio, and the Ohio school invited a team from Georgia, which was against Michigan rules, not Ohio rules. 

 

For those who wonder why--here is an article by John E. "Jack" Roberts, MHSAA Executive Director, on Michigan being the "Purple Cow in a field of Black and White Cows".  Roberts believes "after the state title, there is nowhere to go after the high school championship. It's the top, the end . . . the qualifier to nothing else . . . the pinnacle of what a high school team can do. "

 

http://www.mhsaa.com/MHSAA_ARCHIVE/resources/library/epva16.html 

Edited by Holtfan

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Holtfan, stupid question...does Ontario apply too? Pretty sure they border Michigan!

 

Also, Illinois borders Michigan as well, even if across Lake Michigan. The maritime border should apply there. (I got into a discussion on this one over a totally different issue this summer)

In U.S. only, unfortunately. This effects all sports, not just wrestling. Where is some of the best Hockey played?  Right across the U.S. border. And the best kids don't play HS hockey, because they can't travel to tournaments in Canada. They play club, they play in the Compuware leagues, they travel all over the place. My nephew never played on his HS team due to this. Same with Lacrosse (which is is playing in college). Played club teams so they weren't restricted to travel.

 

As for Illinois, unfortunately "maritme borders" don't apply.  

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Edit: Examle--Stevenson Lakeshore is about 90 miles from Chicago, but cannot compete in any tournament in Chicago.  However, Lakeshore can compete in a tournament in Green Bay, Wi--300 miles away, because Wisconsin borders Michigan. And the odd part, the team has to drive through Chicago to get there. 

Even more ironic--The rules prevent Lakeshore from going to Chicago to compete, but that same Chicago team can be at the Green Bay event, and it's within the rules.  

 

Figure that one out.......

 

 

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Holtfan, that's an Athletic Director with a small amount of chutzpah away from a lawsuit...

 

You would think. But this rule has been in place for decades, and never challenged. The article is probably close to 10 years old.

 

On the subject of lawsuits, the MHSAA--following the volleyball lawsuit which they lost and had to pay (had to do with when the season was as opposed to other states--a stupid lawsuit)--has typically been gun-shy when it comes to potential suits.

 

Here is a great example:

 

A few years back, a team competes in a district team tournament. One of the competitors weighs in at the "adjusted" weight (added pounds on January 1). Following the event, which the wrestling-in-question's team won handily, the opposing team files a protest with the head official, and with the MHSAA, due to the fact that said wrestler never once made 'scratch' weight. 

 

The rules on this are clear. It is an automatic forfeit of the dual. It's a black and white rule, and every team knows it. The team which the infraction was against claimed it was a 'clerical error' and an 'honest mistake'. The MHSAA initially indicated that the rules are clear.  Then the team threatened the MHSAA with a lawsuit over the matter, and they caved on it. 

 

I am just waiting for this to occur again with another team, and see how the MHSAA reacts. After all, they set the precedence that "honest mistakes' trumps the rules. 

 

I know that is off topic of the original post, but it is, IMO, an example of how screwed up I believe the MHSAA can be at times. 

 

BTW---to change the travel rule, it requires something like 80% of the schools to vote in favor of it. But prior to that, it has to be presented by a subcommittee of some sort. I tried to find the exact by law.  Basically, it's been asked for before, but never made it out of 'committee' for a vote. At least not to my knowledge. 

Edited by Holtfan

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Holtfan,

 

Check the results from the DCC Super Duals from past years and you will see that Michigan does wrestle teams from IL.  Oak Park has been there 2x I believe, and will be there this weekend again.

 

Oak Park this year is scheduled to wrestle CC, Davison, Portage (Ind), and Brecksvillle.

 

By no means am I an expert on the travel rule, but I know one year when Davison went to Medina when Brent and Jon were in HS they had to uninvite a team from PA so Davison could attend.  My understanding at the time was any Michigan school had to be 300 miles from a competing school at the same meet.  No rules have changed that I know of since then.

 

So ridiculous.  Why not allow a 1 or 2x per season travel waiver.  

 

 

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Speaking of setting a precedent of "honest mistake", have any of you heard about the controversy involving the Grandville team?  Evidently they accidentally weighed in 15 (14 is the regular season limit) times, although they did forfeit their conference tournament, thereby negating the 15th weigh-in.  However it appears that they are being forced to forfeit the post season, and they are ranked 5th in the state as a team.  

 

I don't know much more than what's written. It does not appear to be malicious, and an honest mistake.  

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Speaking of setting a precedent of "honest mistake", have any of you heard about the controversy involving the Grandville team?  Evidently they accidentally weighed in 15 (14 is the regular season limit) times, although they did forfeit their conference tournament, thereby negating the 15th weigh-in.  However it appears that they are being forced to forfeit the post season, and they are ranked 5th in the state as a team.  

 

I don't know much more than what's written. It does not appear to be malicious, and an honest mistake.  

 

They weighed in 14 times. That is what caused the mistake by the coach/AD, they counted weigh ins instead of events. One of the weigh ins was for two events. Michigan (idk about other states) allows day before weigh ins for non-postseason events, so you can weigh in for an event that day and if you have an event the next day you can use that weigh in. It's not that uncommon of a practice so the coach/ad are at fault... but they got punished by being banned from the team tournament. Punishing the individuals is outrageous, bu that is what they are doing. Any of the wrestlers who wrestled 15 events (some are very very good) are banned from individual districts this Saturday. Once again the MHSAA screwing kids.

Edited by TurdFerguson

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