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BigTimeFan

Dake-Taylor take four

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Thinking that Dake, Taylor, Herbert or whatever no hope USA sends at this weight could beat anyone outside of Sadulaev has to be the single worst prediction I have ever read for any sport.

 

Incredibly weak weight class for the US, I would not be surprised if they do not qualify it at all and there will be no medal. Winning a single match at the Olympics and then being eliminated would be an accomplishment for whoever goes.

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Just watched it .... tried my best to find the video around flo .... didn't want to go to the main page and see headlines.  Could not find the video anywhere.  Tried to go to the event.  Tried the search.  NOTHING.  Go to the main page and bam, as expected, the title gives away the ending.  

 

Well, at least the video was there.  

 

Dake knew he had to fire early.  And he did.  Big time.  Amazing he could transition to that trapped arm so easily.  Even off the reversal he got it.    Great wrestling.   Still not a fan of the tilt a wirl resulting in quick techs though.

 

As someone said earlier .... amazing that 2 guys could move up 26 pounds (12kg x 2.2 lbs/kg) and become #1 and #2 in that weight class.  (Need to see Herbert I guess, to be fair).  

 

HUGE.  Glad to be around to watch both these guys.

Interesting problem you had going. At first I thought "boy, nom is kind of a mental laggard, he couldn't find the match". Then I realized you wanted to find it without finding out the outcome. Only in wrestling is that even possible! Perhaps the only known advantage of watching an under-loved sport.

 

I was the one who said they became #1 and #2 but you are absolutely right, I forgot about Herbert. He had his labral tear repair via arthroscopic surgery. That may or may not be a factor depending on how severe it was.

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Thinking that Dake, Taylor, Herbert or whatever no hope USA sends at this weight could beat anyone outside of Sadulaev has to be the single worst prediction I have ever read for any sport.

 

Incredibly weak weight class for the US, I would not be surprised if they do not qualify it at all and there will be no medal. Winning a single match at the Olympics and then being eliminated would be an accomplishment for whoever goes.

 

I think you are being too pessimistic. I go back once again to 1982 when Dave Schultz took a true bronze in worlds at 180.5. He was a legit 163 pound guy who wrestled 158 in college. Bill Scherr also moved up to 220 from 198 to let brother Jim in. Bill was a world champ at 198 and then was a multi-time world medalist at 220. It's not out of the question that a smaller guy can move up and make an impact at a higher weight. And since it's not out of the question that Dake could be a medalist at 163, the way Dake wrestled vs Taylor after Taylor dismantled Ruth, I'm no longer so sure. 

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Dake impresses the crap out of me by how freakishly strong his hips are. When he wants to go full bore the only person in the US that can neutralize his power is Burroughs. Weight class doesn't matter...watch his first td vs Reader hes unbelievably strong, probably can power clean a VW beetle

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Great job by Dake. To move up in weight that much and win is remarkable. 

 

But it is also a shame. When people talk about Burroughs they talk out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand he is the best, the prohibitive favorite, etc. On the other they twist themselves into a pretzel to explain why the system US wrestling came up with that no other competitive nation practices needs to exist to ensure that the prohibitive favorite actually wins. If he is the best (and he certainly has an extremely strong claim to the title) then he should not need the help. But by stacking the deck so needlessly it destroys the integrity of the competition. US wrestling is saying outright that it wants certain guys to win, and that bias corrupts the entire process. Maybe Dake will never beat him. No shame in that. But that last matchup was an athletic disgrace. Dake wrestles the challenge matchs, then outwrestles Burroughs the first match only to be on the receiving end of a call that can most charitably be described as getting hometowned. Dake leaves that match thoroughly dejected and recognized that at that point it was a matter of why even bother? He comes out completely dejected the second match, leaves his leg out there (yes protect yourself at all times but at that point why bang your head against a wall?) and Burroughs jumps on it. Dake realized this was absurd.  And so now we have this adventure. Best of luck to him.  

Edited by straggler

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Are you saying Dake is better than Burroughs? Who is the idiot here?

 

Burroughs isn't the clear favorite, is that what you are saying?

I'm saying you never know what happens when both guys are fresh or both are tired. I'd give Dake a hell of a better chance if both were fresh or if both wrestled at an international tournament. Burroughs lost to Marable. Dake>Marable, it's possible.

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Great job by Dake. To move up in weight that much and win is remarkable. 

 

But it is also a shame. When people talk about Burroughs they talk out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand he is the best, the prohibitive favorite, etc. On the other they twist themselves into a pretzel to explain why the system US wrestling came up with that no other competitive nation practices needs to exist to ensure that the prohibitive favorite actually wins. If he is the best (and he certainly has an extremely strong claim to the title) then he should not need the help. But by stacking the deck so needlessly it destroys the integrity of the competition. US wrestling is saying outright that it wants certain guys to win, and that bias corrupts the entire process. Maybe Dake will never beat him. No shame in that. But that last matchup was an athletic disgrace. Dake wrestles the challenge matchs, then outwrestles Burroughs the first match only to be on the receiving end of a call that can most charitably be described as getting hometowned. Dake leaves that match thoroughly dejected and recognized that at that point it was a matter of why even bother? He comes out completely dejected the second match, leaves his leg out there (yes protect yourself at all times but at that point why bang your head against a wall?) and Burroughs jumps on it. Dake realized this was absurd.  And so now we have this adventure. Best of luck to him.  

Do you actually believe that a world class wrestler can't compete to the very best of their ability 4 times during the course of an entire day?  What's going to happen when they get to Rio and they are relying on a weakened opponent to win? 

Edited by Plasmodium

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Thinking that Dake, Taylor, Herbert or whatever no hope USA sends at this weight could beat anyone outside of Sadulaev has to be the single worst prediction I have ever read for any sport.

 

Incredibly weak weight class for the US, I would not be surprised if they do not qualify it at all and there will be no medal. Winning a single match at the Olympics and then being eliminated would be an accomplishment for whoever goes.

 

 

I have to agree with Shiraz123 100%.  

 

I am embarrassed for the USA when on a board with international guests, we showcase our ignorance and blatant homerism with such outrageous and asinine predictions.  And this isn't the first time.   We have just gone through the embarrassment of the Brent Metcalf effort (not his effort at worlds, the predictions of him winning a medal).   I was there yesterday and I was there at Worlds.   I will be in Rio, and I will be meeting up with wrestlng fans from across the globe, who befriended me at this years worlds.   The Russian contingent has invited me to sit in their section, and I have invites from Iran and Mexico.   But you American fans make it difficult to show my face wit your repeated baseless predictions.  

 

Yesterday we learned how incredibly weak 86 kg is in the USA and now there's predictions of capturing hardware at the Olympics?  I thought Freezewrestling was a little girl trolling the board, I had MSU157 pegged as someone's mom, littering Metcalf prediction threads with abysmal reasoning for his predictions, and I figured Rosie

 

Shiraz123, please accept my most humble and sincere of apologies.   I cannot reasonably explain what's come over my countrymen.  I am humiliated being associated with this cesspool.   I will PM you the international site I frequent (english friendly) without all the rif raf and where there's actually intelligent wrestling discussion.  

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Cletus, who exactly predicted hardware for the US at 86kg? Cesspool? Really? You certainly have a flare for words, you should write a column, I'd read it. That said, my take is that the general sentiment for 86kg is something like a glimmer of hope, which since you think it's pretty hopeless may still be too much, but it hardly rises to the level of national shame. Plus this board is nowhere near as shamelessly pro-USA as you suggest. I recall a few of our US brethren predicting one and done for Snyder which to my mind was about the same level as predicting a medal at 86kg, which nobody to my knowledge did in any case. 

Edited by BigTimeFan

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Well Cletus your outlook is just foolish.  We have have medaled in many cases when it was just as "unlikely" as you claim it will be for Metcalf (or whomever @ 65kg) or whoever makes the team @ 86kg.  The way the worlds/olympics work w/ no seeding lends itself to surprise medalists.  The Zadick bros, gold & silver in 06.  Kelly 04.  The Puerto Rican wrestler who won the silver.  Jakes silver in 09.  Varner in 12.  Adam Wheeler. None of them were favorites going in.  It's not easy to get a medal at any weight at worlds/Olympics and except for 74kg having the US fail to medal at any of the other 5 FS weights would not be a great shock.  However whoever makes the US team will be competitive on the world stage have some reasonable shot at medaling.  They just have to have a good performance and get an OK draw.

 

Just to clarify I'm not saying the guys mentioned above were lucky or undeserving of the medals.  They performed really well at the right time.  Anyone who makes our 2016 team could pull that out.

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Well Cletus your outlook is just foolish.  We have have medaled in many cases when it was just as "unlikely" as you claim it will be for Metcalf (or whomever @ 65kg) or whoever makes the team @ 86kg.  The way the worlds/olympics work w/ no seeding lends itself to surprise medalists.  The Zadick bros, gold & silver in 06.  Kelly 04.  The Puerto Rican wrestler who won the silver.  Jakes silver in 09.  Varner in 12.  Adam Wheeler. None of them were favorites going in.  It's not easy to get a medal at any weight at worlds/Olympics and except for 74kg having the US fail to medal at any of the other 5 FS weights would not be a great shock.  However whoever makes the US team will be competitive on the world stage have some reasonable shot at medaling.  They just have to have a good performance and get an OK draw.

 

Just to clarify I'm not saying the guys mentioned above were lucky or undeserving of the medals.  They performed really well at the right time.  Anyone who makes our 2016 team could pull that out.

 

 

 

Well yes, if you're in the tournament, of course you have a shot at pulling it off, capt. obvious.   The guy from Kenya might be able to win at 74 kg, it's just he's a 2 billion to 1 long shot.   We get that, if you're there, there is a statistical shot at getting to the medal stand.   

 

What we're discussing here, is expecting someone who has no reasonable shot at it, to reach the medal stand.    Just curious, are you in high school?  Identify yourself dumb dumb, before we go any further in this discussion.  

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You folks that respond to Cletus as if he is a real person with honest intentions are hilarious.  Read his posts for the entertainment value, feel no need to reply to them though and make him feel valued.  He makes valid points once in a while, it is true.  Often he flames away with ridiculousness ... regardless, he likes to wrap it in mocking condescension to rile people up and needle fans of teams he doesn't like.  He's a caricature.  We have a few like him around ....

 

if you reply, I hope it is for entertainment value and not for honest and well intentioned debate.

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You folks that respond to Cletus as if he is a real person with honest intentions are hilarious.  Read his posts for the entertainment value, feel no need to reply to them though and make him feel valued.  He makes valid points once in a while, it is true.  Often he flames away with ridiculousness ... regardless, he likes to wrap it in mocking condescension to rile people up and needle fans of teams he doesn't like.  He's a caricature.  We have a few like him around ....

 

if you reply, I hope it is for entertainment value and not for honest and well intentioned debate.

 

Not believe that Cletus Tucker is real? Why, we might as well not believe in Santa Claus. Alas! how dreary would these forums be if there was no Cletus.  Just a caricature, you say? Bah, humbug! Cletus exists as certainly as the Midlands, the Southern Scuffle, and the NCAA tournament exists. Those who believe otherwise have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age.

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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