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greenmt.

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After Ironman and Beast the 3rd toughest  tournament on the December schedule is up now. What a loaded field with Wyoming Seminary coming in as the #1 team in the land, as they should win the team title without much struggle. Maybe Bergan Catholic will give them the best run, that depends on Shane Griffin if he's healthy, Also Belle Vernon will be in the hunt. However, their are plenty of individual weights that will bring lots of interest on a national level. 126 with Soriano, MCcoy and Agaisse. 138 with Pletcher, Phillipi, griffith and Oster. 145 Has Verkleeren, Coy,Buddock and Glasgow. 152 maybe with the 5th match between Manville and Hidlay, Monico and Timmons will be in the hunt. at 182 is the deepest field for sure, with  Ironman champ Reenan, Beast champ Gentile, then AA state champ  Bulsak, Hoffman,  Beast placer McCracken, Bolwen, Woodley, Shaffer, 2x Beast placer Colello, 2x Beast placer Brandon Kui. wow top 20 matches in the round of 16.

Edited by greenmt.

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After Ironman and Beast the 3rd toughest  tournament on the December schedule is up now. What a loaded field with Wyoming Seminary coming in as the #1 team in the land, as they should win the team title without much struggle. Maybe Bergan Catholic will give them the best run, that depends on Shane Griffin if he's healthy, Also Belle Vernon will be in the hunt. However, their are plenty of individual weights that will bring lots of interest on a national level. 126 with Soriano, MCcoy and Agaisse. 138 with Pletcher, Phillipi, griffith and Oster. 145 Has Verkleeren, Coy,Buddock and Glasgow. 152 maybe with the 5th match between Manville and Hidlay, Monico and Timmons will be in the hunt. at 182 is the deepest field for sure, with  Ironman champ Reenan, Beast champ Gentile, then AA state champ  Bulsak, Hoffman,  Beast placer McCracken, Bolwen, Woodley, Shaffer, 2x Beast placer Colello, 2x Beast placer Brandon Kui. wow top 20 matches in the round of 16.

 

 

Although sometimes crazy things happen when other teams are driven as well. Olathe North last year for example won the Council Bluffs Classic (with several backups in the lineup) over a field that included Apple Valley (MN) who was ranked high in the Nation.

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Seeds are out on the Powerade wrestling website. Spencer Lee isn't listed, so LBJ I hope you're right. His teammate Gus Solomon also isn't listed. #1 at 182 Nick Reenan is not wrestling either. A few other nationally ranked wrestlers aren't competing, Injuries are a part of this sport. That's why backups and depth are important at the high school and college level.

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1- Lee ain't wrestling

2- Bergen Catholic isn't, and was never coming

3- the seeding for this event is pathetic.  It keeps it from becoming a premiere event like Beast.  What a disgrace

 

Simply using past Powerade performance (which trumps the other criteria) and past state performance is pathetic. To completely ignore tournaments like Ironman, Beast, Super32, Fargo, FloNationals etc when seeding is a joke. 

 

They should follow suit with how the Ironman seeds, and use that. Not this hinky system that benefits teams who consistently come.

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Simply using past Powerade performance (which trumps the other criteria) and past state performance is pathetic. To completely ignore tournaments like Ironman, Beast, Super32, Fargo, FloNationals etc when seeding is a joke. 

 

They should follow suit with how the Ironman seeds, and use that. Not this hinky system that benefits teams who consistently come.

out of the area teams never come back because of this.

 

Have the location/ weekend to challenge Ironman as #1 event.  Shooting themselves in the foot with ridiculous seeding

 

needs new leadership

Edited by GuillermoBilletas

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Simply using past Powerade performance (which trumps the other criteria) and past state performance is pathetic. To completely ignore tournaments like Ironman, Beast, Super32, Fargo, FloNationals etc when seeding is a joke. 

 

They should follow suit with how the Ironman seeds, and use that. Not this hinky system that benefits teams who consistently come.

Well obviously previous Powerade's > 2015 World Championships.

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Nick Farro is a NJ state finalist and Beast runner up at 132. He has the biggest beef without a seed. Unless I'm missing someone else. 

It goes much deeper than that.  The seeding for this event is pathetic and unworthy of my expert commentary.  But here it goes anyway

 

You have to assume they used previous state place finish and powerade finish, when they felt like it.  Unlerss they didn't feel like it

 

106- always tough to seed this weight this  early, but you have to guess they were impressed with McHenry's Beast to put him over returning state Q's and placewinners.  But is that consistent through the process

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Bayless

 

113- The best seeding of the event

 

Glaring mistake- Sem's Baker.

 

120 Chaos starts here.  The committee liked McHenry's Beast, but ignored Davis's Ironman.  Lennox goes #1 over 2 state champions despite only being a qualifier

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Davis

 

126 Again, abject stupidity.  no seed for PIAA state champ Riegel.  while seeding qualifiers and non w qualifiers alike.

 

Glaring mistake- BB Casey is a Jersey state medalist- naturally no seed for him, seeds for no piaa placers

 

132 Potentially the worst weight. Nationally ranked olson is 6th after placing in a weight at ironman where Hartman, the 2 seed, won 1 match.  Hartman and ortz seeded over 2 state champs

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Delbarton's Farro- who just was 2nd at Beast

 

138 Wilson doesn't evcen go to states, but is seeded over qualifiers and state placers.  Munn 5th at Ironman, - no seed.

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for PIAA state medalist McCoy

 

145 Verkeleeren behind Budock is just silly, considering results a few weeks old

 

Glaring mistake- Lewis is way too low

 

152 now, clearly manville should be #1 based on overall resume, but how do they justify it with no state place or powerade place last year? Good counsel 2nd at state is more like 2nd at a piaa region- can't compare

 

Glaring mistake- Greenwald should be top 8

 

160- 2/3 seeds are a joke.  Putting them above Verallis (3rd at Ironman) is silly  Hidlay at 7 is also horrible. 

 

Glaring mistake- Hartman seeded above Verallis with no stat place and not placing at Ironman while in same weight two weeks ago

 

170- again the Good Counsel state placefinishes shouldn't count.  this weight is bad, so no major complaints.  

 

Glaring mistake -none

 

182 absoultely no way to justify Gentile over Bulsak.  none.  McCraken getting in and Hoffman not is a joke.

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Walters- Fargo Champ, state and Powerade placer

 

195- I take it back, this is the wost weight seed wise.  Dietrick is ranked 6th in nation and is seeded 6th, Good counsel bad criteria rears it head again here.  no way to justify Duggan over Buttry.

 

Glaring mistake no seed for Hoffman but Burrell kid gets one

 

220 another mess.  6th at powerade is better than Brady Daniel's state title?  C'Mon man

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Cole Nye

 

285 awful weight, not worth looking at

 

sad sad sad.  you either want to be a legit national event, or you don't

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Simply using past Powerade performance (which trumps the other criteria) and past state performance is pathetic. To completely ignore tournaments like Ironman, Beast, Super32, Fargo, FloNationals etc when seeding is a joke. 

 

They should follow suit with how the Ironman seeds, and use that. Not this hinky system that benefits teams who consistently come.

 

You may not like Geary Oklahoma's tournament that Blair Academy goes to then....no seeding at all and you score points for your team only by bonus victories and placement matches. 

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It goes much deeper than that.  The seeding for this event is pathetic and unworthy of my expert commentary.  But here it goes anyway

 

You have to assume they used previous state place finish and powerade finish, when they felt like it.  Unlerss they didn't feel like it

 

106- always tough to seed this weight this  early, but you have to guess they were impressed with McHenry's Beast to put him over returning state Q's and placewinners.  But is that consistent through the process

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Bayless

 

113- The best seeding of the event

 

Glaring mistake- Sem's Baker.

 

120 Chaos starts here.  The committee liked McHenry's Beast, but ignored Davis's Ironman.  Lennox goes #1 over 2 state champions despite only being a qualifier

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Davis

 

126 Again, abject stupidity.  no seed for PIAA state champ Riegel.  while seeding qualifiers and non w qualifiers alike.

 

Glaring mistake- BB Casey is a Jersey state medalist- naturally no seed for him, seeds for no piaa placers

 

132 Potentially the worst weight. Nationally ranked olson is 6th after placing in a weight at ironman where Hartman, the 2 seed, won 1 match.  Hartman and ortz seeded over 2 state champs

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Delbarton's Farro- who just was 2nd at Beast

 

138 Wilson doesn't evcen go to states, but is seeded over qualifiers and state placers.  Munn 5th at Ironman, - no seed.

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for PIAA state medalist McCoy

 

145 Verkeleeren behind Budock is just silly, considering results a few weeks old

 

Glaring mistake- Lewis is way too low

 

152 now, clearly manville should be #1 based on overall resume, but how do they justify it with no state place or powerade place last year? Good counsel 2nd at state is more like 2nd at a piaa region- can't compare

 

Glaring mistake- Greenwald should be top 8

 

160- 2/3 seeds are a joke.  Putting them above Verallis (3rd at Ironman) is silly  Hidlay at 7 is also horrible. 

 

Glaring mistake- Hartman seeded above Verallis with no stat place and not placing at Ironman while in same weight two weeks ago

 

170- again the Good Counsel state placefinishes shouldn't count.  this weight is bad, so no major complaints.  

 

Glaring mistake -none

 

182 absoultely no way to justify Gentile over Bulsak.  none.  McCraken getting in and Hoffman not is a joke.

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Walters- Fargo Champ, state and Powerade placer

 

195- I take it back, this is the wost weight seed wise.  Dietrick is ranked 6th in nation and is seeded 6th, Good counsel bad criteria rears it head again here.  no way to justify Duggan over Buttry.

 

Glaring mistake no seed for Hoffman but Burrell kid gets one

 

220 another mess.  6th at powerade is better than Brady Daniel's state title?  C'Mon man

 

Glaring mistake- no seed for Cole Nye

 

285 awful weight, not worth looking at

 

sad sad sad.  you either want to be a legit national event, or you don't

Wow, thanks for doing all the work.  This is ridiculous.  I don't get the reasoning?  It defies all logic.  They have a great tournament but seedings like this will turn a lot of teams off.  Looking at all the seeds, is there any rhyme or reason?  Trying to set the Can-Mac kids up? Local kids?  What?

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Guillermo may have to apologize to Powerade.  They might have known a few things about the seedings that we all doubted.

You are usually a pretty decent poster so I won't humiliate you too badly but nothing could be further from the truth.  The seeds were, and still are- terrible

 

1- Seeds aren't predictions, so if your point is a lot of the top seeds are still in it then that makes no sense.  Need an objective, published criteria

 

2- once you are seeded, you are given opportunities that unseeded guys don't have.  perfect exampl is 132.  Top two local guys have had walks to the semi-finals, the 3/6 bracket has been brutal with Monday (state Champ), Olson, (ranked in nation) and Farro (Beast finalist) all fighting it out.This validates what I'm saying.

 

How about 145- did i say Lewis was way too low? (again, not a local guy)

 

Do you think the kids at 120/126 would've like to see the Wyo/Sem kids seeded (again, not a local guy)

 

How does the bottom half of 160 look?

 

Do you want me to go on?

 

Seeds are a joke

Edited by GuillermoBilletas

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Guillermo may have to apologize to Powerade.  They might have known a few things about the seedings that we all doubted.

 

Guillermo was exactly right.  Powerade seeding is a complete joke.  They pick and choose their logic to apply to PA wrestlers.  Brackets set up wrong when not seeded properly and results tend to skew towards seedings.

 

You put it out there with 15 to 20 picks like Guillermo did and you're bound to get it wrong on a couple.  But I can tell by his post that he would have done a FAR better job at seeding that tourney than Powerade did.

 

Kui was another example that he didn't mention.  3rd at Beast in a stacked bracket, nationally ranked, NJ medalist - unseeded here.  I brought him up on another forum when discussing some glaring mistakes the Beast made (which I thought maybe came about because Adrian is no longer involved - I think), but now in retrospect, the Beast seeders are geniuses compared to these guys.

 

A lot of this is just laziness IMO - if you're going to be a nationally recognized tournament and seed you need to pay attention.  I would like to exclude Ironman from this attack as they are an opening weekend tourney and have preestablished and not secret point system.  And even they will use common sense to deviate from it.  They do a great job.  A lot of other tournaments don't.  

 

If you're going to be a prestigious tournament, you should have to do a lot of work to prepare for seeding.  Or stick to a point formula and then it's fair for everyone (pretty sure Bethlehem Holiday does this - yes, freshman get screwed, but everyone knows the deal coming in).

 

I am in charge of the seeding prep for a pretty recognized tournament.  I can tell you that I spend the entire year compiling information on placings, h-t-hs, offseason results (which you need to discount, but they can tell you when you need to start paying attention to someone).  Then we take a full day discussing it with multiple eyes on the process.  It's a lot of work.  But it pays off and the kids who have great tournaments most often end up on the stand.  People don't get walks there.  Yeah, we make mistakes, but I've got to say, even then, we most likely know where they are coming from.  Just don't have enough data to give the kid a high enough seed.  

 

With all the resources available, it's getting easier to seed each year.  More people should take advantage of it.

Edited by rickybobby

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I was at a seeding meeting one time where a 2x state champ was seeded 7th.  The guy running the meeting told the coach,  that's the best he is in this bracket.   The kid finished 8th!   That was at the Bobcat Tournament in Basehor, Ks. 

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