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AKHUNTER

Hodge

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Ruth is still in the discussion, and so is Dake, even though many want to discount him. It all depends on what the pin totals are at the end of the year, but WIN has shown they will give it to whomever they want regardless of criteria. If Dake has anywhere near the pin total of the other guys though, he may still get it if he beats Taylor again for title number 4. Close matches against Taylor won't be held against him. If Metcalf's loss by pin to Caldwell wasn't held against him, multiple close wins over the previously undefeated Hodge winner and NCAA most dominant won't be held against Dake.

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Ruth and Oliver seem to be the two guys just pummeling their rivals, even top 5 guys. Hard to pick between them right now.

 

Dake will, of course, get consideration. Winning close ones vs Taylor is hardly a criticism, as long as he dominates others.

 

McD, St John and Steiber will be dark horses, as each will have some very tough rivals who could pull off an upset... Megaludis, Delgado, Garnett and Garrett for McD, Ramos for Steiber, and Alton and Welch for St J.

 

As long as one of these guys runs the table, with dominant performances, I think Taylor's chance at repeating are nil.

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If you actually go and look at the numbers and what the criteria is supposed to be I think the leader is someone no one has mention, it's Killer. Someone check me but I'm pretty sure Kilgore is 22-0 with like 8 falls, 2 techs, and 7 majors. I certainly don't anticipate Kilgore will win it regardless of how dominant he is at the end of the year, they'll give it to whoever they want to regardless of criteria, but right now Killer is looking pretty killer.

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Assuming Dake wins NCAA this year, another way to put his season in perspective would be to ask if Taylor would be a Hodge candidate this year at 165 if Dake had stayed at 157. If you look at all of Taylor's other matches against guys not named Dake, you'd have to say yes. What's Taylor's closest match this year other than his losses? Was it the 10-0 win against Caldwell? So if Dake has an undefeated record and something in the range of 50 percent falls this year, combined with it being title number 4 and beating Taylor 2-3 times, I'd be somewhat surprised if he doesn't win the Hodge, unless Oliver or Ruth have something ridiculous like 90 percent falls. I'm less concerned with tech falls, although I know they gave Burroughs the Hodge because of techs. I look at the fall number, but WIN does whatever they want.

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I agree with dsnc471. I think that if Dake beats Taylor again at the NCAAs and takes his 4th, he should win the Hodge. The quality of the opponent counts for something. And, if Dake beats Taylor in the finals in March, I think he earns the Hodge outright. Even if Oliver and Ruth end up with more pins and techs, the 4x NCAA champ that beats the previous year's Hodge winner to take his 4th title should get the nod. Besides, it would be a shame for Dake to be only the third wrestler in history to win 4 titles and never be considered the most dominant wrestler at any point in his career.

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I've posted this elsewhere. But the #1 criteria for the Hodge is 'they give it to whoever they feel like it', criteria.

 

We could have a contest to decide which Hodge selection best follows your rule. Was it Ackerman sharing the Hodge with Cael while meeting virtually none of the criteria, while Robles didn't win while having a similar disability and actually meeting the criteria? Or was it Metcalf's dominant season where he was decked by the guy that embarrassed him the following year as well? Or was it when Ness won over Varner because he had more falls, and then Oliver got a big FU from the committee for having more falls than Burroughs?

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The Hodge is a great idea, but the excecution has been lacking. The Ackerman thing (no offense- great story) really hurts a lot. If it was purely a "best wrestler" award, it should go to Dake if he wins. If not, Ruth if he wins. Oliver has been AWESOME, but people are really sleeping on Ruth especially in light of having the defending NCAA champ in his weight.

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If you actually go and look at the numbers and what the criteria is supposed to be I think the leader is someone no one has mention, it's Killer. Someone check me but I'm pretty sure Kilgore is 22-0 with like 8 falls, 2 techs, and 7 majors. I certainly don't anticipate Kilgore will win it regardless of how dominant he is at the end of the year, they'll give it to whoever they want to regardless of criteria, but right now Killer is looking pretty killer.

I think Stieber and Oliver both have better numbers. Stieber has 8 falls, 4 techs, and 2 majors while wrestling 7 fewer matches than Killer. He has bonus points in 100% of his matches to Killer's 81%, including a higher pinning rate (57% to 38%) and a higher tech rate ( 29% to 10%). I don't have all of Oliver's numbers in front of me, but he's also wrestled less matches than Kilgore and has at least 1 more pin than Killer or Stieber.

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"think Stieber and Oliver both have better numbers. Stieber has 8 falls, 4 techs, and 2 majors while wrestling 7 fewer matches than Killer. He has bonus points in 100% of his matches to Killer's 81%, including a higher pinning rate (57% to 38%) and a higher tech rate ( 29% to 10%). I don't have all of Oliver's numbers in front of me, but he's also wrestled less matches than Kilgore and has at least 1 more pin than Killer or Stieber."

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. (TOSU webite has Stieber with 14 of 15 bonus matches.)

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So if Steiber wrestles 7 more matches he may not still have 100% bonus. Anyway, I'm not saying the award should go to Killer and I KNOW for a fact it won't. I'm just saying no one will even speak his name or acknowledge he's in the conversation when he, in fact, is. All I'm saying.

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My vote still goes with Dake based on history. He is the only one that will be a 4x'er out of the bunch and he is putting up a lot more bonus this year. Not to mention he would have had 2 wins vs. last years Hodge trophy winner(assuming Taylor meets him in the finals) and that isn't even counting the All-star and Freestyle result.

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"think Stieber and Oliver both have better numbers. Stieber has 8 falls, 4 techs, and 2 majors while wrestling 7 fewer matches than Killer. He has bonus points in 100% of his matches to Killer's 81%, including a higher pinning rate (57% to 38%) and a higher tech rate ( 29% to 10%). I don't have all of Oliver's numbers in front of me, but he's also wrestled less matches than Kilgore and has at least 1 more pin than Killer or Stieber."

 

Oliver to date is 17-0 this year. 9 falls, 2 tech falls, 5 majors, 1 decision.

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My vote still goes with Dake based on history. He is the only one that will be a 4x'er out of the bunch and he is putting up a lot more bonus this year. Not to mention he would have had 2 wins vs. last years Hodge trophy winner(assuming Taylor meets him in the finals) and that isn't even counting the All-star and Freestyle result.

Dake this year:7 falls, 4 majors, and 5 decisions

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Isn't Kilgore's 8 falls, 2 techs, and 7 majors better than Dakes 7 falls and 4 majors? Again I don't expect Kilgore to win and in the end I probably wouldn't vote for him, but shouldn't he be ahead of Dake at this point? Killer can't get not love.

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I've posted this elsewhere. But the #1 criteria for the Hodge is 'they give it to whoever they feel like it', criteria.

 

We could have a contest to decide which Hodge selection best follows your rule. Was it Ackerman sharing the Hodge with Cael while meeting virtually none of the criteria, while Robles didn't win while having a similar disability and actually meeting the criteria? Or was it Metcalf's dominant season where he was decked by the guy that embarrassed him the following year as well? Or was it when Ness won over Varner because he had more falls, and then Oliver got a big FU from the committee for having more falls than Burroughs?

I agree with scribe and dsnc. The Hodge selection criteria has become a joke.

For years they futzed about with internally inconsistent definitions about what it means to be "dominant" -- first it was all about having the most pins (first several years), then "heart" could trump or match # of pins (Ackerman), then it was mostly about being undefeated (the rationale for why Willson got it over guys with better numbers), then it was back to having lots of pins and bonus points even if you have a loss (rationale given for Metcalf), then the "heart" rationale was rescinded (how else to explain why Robles didn't at least share the award), then the "pins" rationale was eliminated entirely (to enable giving it to Burroughs, who never pins) .

For those following carefully, when they gave it to Burroughs, they just gave up all pretense of saying it was an award for dominance, instead saying it goes to the "best" wrestler. That is now the standard set on WIN's website. Oh sure, they still mention a number of criteria "included" in consideration for the award, but gone are the days where we tally up the number of falls, bonus points, losses, etc. You want that, go track the NCAA's stat-based "Most Dominant Wrestler" award. As for the Hodge, after having been badly embarrassed by having advanced so many internally contradictory rationales over they years, they essentially just gave up and said they'll give it to whoever the hell they want, based on whatever rationale they conjure up for that year.

 

The lesson to be learned here is that precedent means nothing. My guess is that Dake gets it if he wins a 4th title, and they'll act like winning 4 titles is suddenly a key criteria. Just roll with it.

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It looks like Kilgore has beaten a higher quality of competition 6 in top 20 and Campy 3 times, twice by major. He has wrestled twice the matches and is undefeated so the others are at a disadvantage since the heat of their schedule is coming. Kilgore only has Haynes and Wellington in conference that can present a real challenge. The other guys are looking at B10 meat grinder season and conference meet.

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So if Steiber wrestles 7 more matches he may not still have 100% bonus.

True, but so what? Since Stieber, Oliver, and Kilgore have all wrestled a different number of bouts, I computed their numbers just like calculating a batting average. Stieber and Oliver's numbers (100% bonus & 57% pins for Stieber, 94% bonus & 53% pins for Oliver) are better than Kilgore's 81% bonus & 38% pins.

Anyway, I'm not saying the award should go to Killer and I KNOW for a fact it won't. I'm just saying no one will even speak his name or acknowledge he's in the conversation when he, in fact, is. All I'm saying.

Well, I spoke Kilgore's name when I said "I think Stieber and Oliver both have better numbers." Then LkwdSteve said he "was thinking the same thing." And later Itp280 referenced my post when he confirmed that Oliver had one more pin than Kilgore. So, I think its fair to say he was discussed.

 

At any rate, if you're not saying the award should go to Killer and you KNOW for a fact it won't, why are you objecting that "no one will speak his name or acknowledge he's in the conversation"? - particularly in view of the fact that he was mentioned and his numbers were discussed in comparison with Stieber and Oliver.

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