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tec87

Kyle Snyder pulls his redshirt

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I think Angle was a lot better athlete than Snyder was.  He also had better guys to train with IMO.  Also not that Terkay wasn't a good wrestler, but he is pretty comparable to Brock Lesnar, a guy who escaped with an NCAA title and only got there because the guys who always beat him or were capable of always beating him had graduated.  Gwiz is much more technically sound and a better wrestler than Terkay.  He's not 6'7 270, but he is not a small heavyweight and has a lot more in his arsenal than Terkay did.  If Snyder wrestled Terkay I think he would lose and if Angle wrestled Gwiz, I'd say that Angle would have a slightly better chance of winning but not much of one.  Also by the time Angle wrestled Terkay he was a redshirt senior.  Snyder hasn't had that experience, he's only been to the finals once and got pinned.  Angle made the finals for 3 years in a row and was 2-1.

Kyle is one of very few human beings to win a world title in his teens.  So I think that Kyle is a better athlete younger. Though I'd be surprised if he ever moves as well laterally as Angle did, or with duck unders, Kyle stays low and strong better than Angle ever did.  The improvement Kyle made from the NCAAs to the Worlds in his overall low, yet strong stance has been extraordinary.  Kyle moves very low and will wear people down by the level change and pure activity.  He is athletic enough, though I do agree Angle was more "quick".  I think you are underestimating Kyle as well. DO you think Gadisov would beat Terkay? How about Varner or JD Bergman?  I think all of those guys would beat Terkay personally.  

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I will say it here. I think Snyder wins 285. I think Varner would win 285. Maybe even JD but probably not. Varner is the best Folk Lt heavy of that bunchbut Snyder will probably pass him-maybe. Snyder did not say it but unless he thought he could win it there is no way he would have pulled his shirt. The team title was part of that decision but let's not kid ourselves-Snyder thinks he will win it and has rolled around with the top guys and from what I hear Tervel is the only guy that can take him and that is very close. 

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Kyle is one of very few human beings to win a world title in his teens.  So I think that Kyle is a better athlete younger. Though I'd be surprised if he ever moves as well laterally as Angle did, or with duck unders, Kyle stays low and strong better than Angle ever did.  The improvement Kyle made from the NCAAs to the Worlds in his overall low, yet strong stance has been extraordinary.  Kyle moves very low and will wear people down by the level change and pure activity.  He is athletic enough, though I do agree Angle was more "quick".  I think you are underestimating Kyle as well. DO you think Gadisov would beat Terkay? How about Varner or JD Bergman?  I think all of those guys would beat Terkay personally.

 

He'll never get low enough or change levels enough to beat Yazdani. He should concentrate on college.

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Snyder says he will wrestle against Penn State and Wisconsin, then Big 10's and NCAA, what about the National Duals February 21st?, the top 8 Big 10 (14) schools and the champion of the 7 other conferences plus 1 NON Big 10 school wildcard, so that could be up to 4 more matches, so he could have 6 matches before Big 10's

 

Also is Snyder going to have to EARN the spot by beating Tavanello in a wrestleoff?  he is a World Champ in Freestyle, but he is untested at 285 pounds and the last time he wrestled Collegiately he got pinned, the way people are talking it sounds like people think it is a formality he gets the heavyweight spot.

Edited by dougb

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Also is Snyder going to have to EARN the spot by beating Tavanello in a wrestleoff?

 

If Tavanello is willing conceding the spot, which it appears he did from one of the Snyder article links posted previously by a Buckeye fan, I'm pretty sure there is exactly 0.01% chance he beats Snyder.

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The point isn't that Angle is exactly the same as Snyder. The point is a smaller heavy who makes up for size through technique and athleticism can defeat a much bigger man. I'm not even saying Snyder would win. What I am saying is the Lowney analogy sucks and the Angle analogy is a lot closer to the truth.

 

And as others have noted, Gwiz isn't THAT much bigger. He may have about 20 lbs on Snyder, maybe 25, but the size difference is significantly smaller than the weight Angle gave up to Terkay.

 

I completely disagree that Angle was "a lot better athlete" than Snyder. That is ridiculous. On what objective basis is he "a lot" better? You just pulled that comment straight out of your ass and expect us to just believe it? Did you put them through your own combine workout to arrive at such a ludicrous conclusion? Snyder is one of the more athletic guys his size we've seen in some time. Jordan Burroughs is "a lot" more athletic than Dan Vallimont because the difference in explosion and speed are very obvious. Reece Humphrey is "a lot" more athletic than, say, Jason Chamberlain (who is very good and might even beat Hump) because he can do no-legged push-ups, one-legged triple Lindy backflips, and has an obvious and rare "pop" to his hips that very few athletes his size have. He launches guys like he's starring in a video game. By what standard is Angle such a better athlete than Snyder? There is zero evidence.

 

That random comment aside, the main point is that Garrett Lowney, who didn't even wrestle the same style as Snyder, is a very poor precedent for Snyder.

 

Yes technique and quickness can beat a larger man, especially with a huge weight difference.  Angle gave up nearly 80 lbs to Terkay and still beat him.  He stated several times he weighed in under 200 lbs to wrestle at the NCAAs his senior year and Terkay was 275.  The size difference with Gwiz and Snyder isn't as drastic, but still 30 lbs is still significant. 

 

As far as what my basis is for Angle being a better athlete?  He was not just a one sport guy.  He played football and was a very good player who got college offers to play but chose to wrestle.  He did say he might have given up wrestling had he gotten an offer from Penn State, or at least suggested he might, but they recruited another linebacker instead of him who was taller.  He also had several close matches with probably one of the most athletic big men ever, Haselrig, a guy who had he stayed wrestling might have eventually made an Olympic team once Bruce decided to step away.  Also even 6-7 years after Angle had quit playing football, around 94 sometime before he made his run at worlds he got a few tryouts with NFL teams due to the fact he had good numbers and performed well in combines.  I don't think the NFL would have given him a look at all if they didn't think he might be a really good athlete despite not having played college football.  As far as I know Snyder hasn't been a multi sport athlete, and a prime Angle would out perform him athletically.  It's like comparing Greg Jones to Ben Askren.  Similar college achievements, same weight, both great wrestlers but do you think that Askren is at all anywhere near the same kind of athlete Jones was?  Not a chance. 

 

If a prime, injury free Angle wrestled Snyder now, I expect it would be close, but Angle moved a lot better than people give him credit for and was extremely tough to score on.  A lot of his matches were very close, but he usually won.  If it were under the old tennis rules we'd just gotten rid of, I think Angle in his prime would have been even tougher to beat because of his defensive opportunistic style, which was also built on the foundation of him being a guy who never got tired.  I do think Snyder has a chance to become a better accomplished wrestler than Angle, as far as medals, but I don't think that he will ever be considered a better pure athlete. 

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Kyle is one of very few human beings to win a world title in his teens.  So I think that Kyle is a better athlete younger. Though I'd be surprised if he ever moves as well laterally as Angle did, or with duck unders, Kyle stays low and strong better than Angle ever did.  The improvement Kyle made from the NCAAs to the Worlds in his overall low, yet strong stance has been extraordinary.  Kyle moves very low and will wear people down by the level change and pure activity.  He is athletic enough, though I do agree Angle was more "quick".  I think you are underestimating Kyle as well. DO you think Gadisov would beat Terkay? How about Varner or JD Bergman?  I think all of those guys would beat Terkay personally.  

 

I think Terkay was along the same lines of Lesnar.  All the guys capable of beating him consistently weren't around anymore so he got his NCAA title. He was just the next guy in line, he didn't have anybody who was a serious threat besides Wes Hand. Plus he was technically deficient, few remember but Vladimir Matyushenko who weighed all of 180 lbs tech falled Lesnar in jucos. All of those guys you mentioned would beat Terkay easily, unless something unusual like a freak pin happened. 

 

Snyder has a similar style to Angle, but I don't think he has the gas tank Angle had, which seemed bottomless, or the defensive skills Angle developed.  That was why Angle won close matches so often was because he had such great defensive skills and was able to counter and score.  His offense wasn't as good or as varied as Snyder, but he made it count when he initiated, and if he got on a roll he was capable of blowing the doors off people. 

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I think Snyder wins the tournament.  He's the best wrestler in the world, and I don't think 30 pounds will matter.  He will probably go down as one of the greatest American wrestlers of all time and one of the greatest wrestlers to wrestle in the NCAA tournament.  

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A little different spin on things... 

 

Think of how Snyder was at 197lbs, and then just months later, bumped "up" to 97kg (213lbs), and made his mark on the wrestling world.  

 

Now... going forward... he's wrestling HWT, lifting, eating, training, lifting again, training again, repeat, etc.. etc. etc... he'll be "cutting" to make 97kg, especially if his overall muscle mass increases a few more pounds and the "man strength" (which we know he has, but I'm just sayin') really kicks into high gear.  

 

This is going to be fun to watch, going forward, but I think for 2016, Snyder is a Top 6 HWT... in 2017 & 2018, he brings home the titles, and then much much much more international hardware to boot.

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Just FYI the Sports Illustrated article about NCAAs the year Angle beat Terkay focused on that match.  It said Terkay weighed 255 and Angle under 210.

 

I think Snyder definately has a shot at the title this year but beating Gwiz won't be easy.  Gwiz has been weighing in around 255 to 260.  Like Snyder he can move like a light guy and shoots a goo variety of leg attacks.  I would favor Gwiz slightly at this point.  

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The real difference here in athleticism isn't between Snyder and Angle, but between Gwiz and Terkay.

Gwiz is bigger and very athletic, at least equal to Snyder.

It comes down to if Snyder is that much better a wrestler than Gwiz that he can give up some weight and get it done.

Gwiz is next in line at 120Kg people, he ain't no Terkay.

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everyone's just guessing on this one.... it could go either way... unless someone else gets in the way lol  cough cough T Hall cough Waltz

 

but at this point I lean Gwiz by 3-4 in a barn burner. If it takes place and is a snooze fest I'll completely give up watching HWTs.

 

If the match were Sat night........ I would vote that match go last figuring it to be a GREAT match.

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Just FYI the Sports Illustrated article about NCAAs the year Angle beat Terkay focused on that match.  It said Terkay weighed 255 and Angle under 210.

 

I think Snyder definately has a shot at the title this year but beating Gwiz won't be easy.  Gwiz has been weighing in around 255 to 260.  Like Snyder he can move like a light guy and shoots a goo variety of leg attacks.  I would favor Gwiz slightly at this point.  

 

Angle himself has said he weighed exactly 199 lbs for the tournament. 

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