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Rarely post on here but just had to log on. As an Iowa fan, just have to say the hate brings a nice warm glow to the tummy.  The OP didn't specify beyond Gilman is a dirty dude...can't believe it was for the Wisconsin match. What are you, a girl? I don't know how many times I have seen guys (not Iowa) keep a guy's head in the mat for the last five or ten seconds of a match, or push up off another guy when standing up. DT, especially, was a fan of this after riding the sh*t out of a guy. I'm sure threads like this keep Gilman up at night in a cold sweat worried about all the classy fans out there who just want things to be...uh classy. So here's a pep talk by the great Iowa alum Col Jessup...or was it John Kreese. Anyways :

"Son, we live in a world that have fish, and those fish have to be dominated by Hawkeyes. Who's gonna do it? You TFBJR? You, Flying Tiger? Iowa has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Jimenez, and you curse Gilman. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Jimenez's butt whooping, while humorous, probably saved lives. And Gilman's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, gives you something to complain about. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at sportsmanship banquets where everybody gets a trophy, you want Hawks on that mat, you need Hawks on that mat. They use words like domination, excellence, and caddywhompus.  They use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them to whine like a b*tch. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain them to whiners who like a sport who they helped revolutionize, and then questions the manner in which they did it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you jump on the mat and sweep a leg...Either way, I don't give a damn what you think about my Hawkeyes."

Edited by azchief32

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Yes, good find Vak.

 

It's interesting that it came from Christian Pyles under the heading:

 

>

 

I guess CP may not fully grasp that thematforums has a group of hard core Iowa haters, including those IRTYTKY mentioned (hurricane, flying tigs, Tbar) plus Lemonpie. They're not representative of the board as a whole, and they disproportionately post any garbage about Iowa they can come up with.

 

LOL! You're barking up the wrong tree, Rosie.  This thread was already over 3 and 1/2 pages long before I made my first post.  And it was to object to your mischaracterization of Conor Youtsey's sportsmanship.  I never even weighed in on the thread's main topic, which is what's really got you all worked up into a dither.  (Tough break, but you can't blame me. I had nothing at all to do with it.)

 

As to our discussion, it's now well documented that the only infraction Youtsey committed was unnecessary roughness.  Your insistence that "the ref did deem in unsportsmanlike," just doesn't align with the facts.  And your claim that Yousey's infraction was so flagrant as to warrant disqualification is so absurd as to be laughable (talk about garbage).

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okay .... you paint a convincing picture hurricane.... you win.

 

Gilman was truly out of line and Youtsey did absolutely nothing wrong. 

 

time to leave it be, and let you get back to your favorite pastime .... doing your opposition research on the internet

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Ha! You're a real Lulu, aren't you Rosie?  Well, after having your gross distortions of Youtsey's behavior exposed, I guess a juvenile parting shot was about the best you could manage.  And I couldn't fail to notice that you prefaced your remarks by declaring me the winner of our little debate.  Mind you, there's still a problem with the way you defined the convincing argument.  Nonetheless, I'll overlook that for now and accept your concession of defeat.  Until next time, Your pal, Hurricane 

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LOL! You're barking up the wrong tree, Rosie.  This thread was already over 3 and 1/2 pages long before I made my first post.  And it was to object to your mischaracterization of Conor Youtsey's sportsmanship.  I never even weighed in on the thread's main topic, which is what's really got you all worked up into a dither.  (Tough break, but you can't blame me. I had nothing at all to do with it.)

 

As to our discussion, it's now well documented that the only infraction Youtsey committed was unnecessary roughness.  Your insistence that "the ref did deem in unsportsmanlike," just doesn't align with the facts.  And your claim that Yousey's infraction was so flagrant as to warrant disqualification is so absurd as to be laughable (talk about garbage).

 

I'd like to note that I really didn't get active in this thread until we saw the deflective "other guys" defense that involved an innocent PSU wrestler.

 

Thomas Gilman is a guy that goes into other teams huddles, body slams opponents and continuously does petty jerk wad stuff just like what was noted by the op. I'm not sure what planet Iowa fans are on that they wouldn't expect wrestling fans to call him out.  

 

rossel, maybe you're right, we should call Youtsey out…... Wow, what a punk move, he should of went to Iowa if he wants to act like that! 

 

oh, and welcome to the Jungle Azchief :-) 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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You guys keep forgetting how the rules work

 

RULES

1. Us Iowa folks including all of the wrestlers just dont care what you think
2. If you feel this way a thinking is wrong or you feel the need to type up a comeback please reread Rule #1 first

 

Thomas Gilman may be an A Hole, but he is our A Hole.

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No one said it was heinous, this is not Billy George, but he does repeatedly act like a punk.  Dominate a guy for 7 minutes and then shake his hand.  Doing anything else reflects badly on the sport.   My opinion.  

To draw a comparison to a Marine, even a fictional one, shows just how delusional you can be.  This is intercollegiate student athletics - not International sport, and definitely not life or death warfare.  Next step after these 5 years is to look for a job, not Gitmo.  None of this **** flies outside of a career in Iowa as a High School coach. 

 

Rarely post on here but just had to log on. As an Iowa fan, just have to say the hate brings a nice warm glow to the tummy.  The OP didn't specify beyond Gilman is a dirty dude...can't believe it was for the Wisconsin match. What are you, a girl? I don't know how many times I have seen guys (not Iowa) keep a guy's head in the mat for the last five or ten seconds of a match, or push up off another guy when standing up. DT, especially, was a fan of this after riding the sh*t out of a guy. I'm sure threads like this keep Gilman up at night in a cold sweat worried about all the classy fans out there who just want things to be...uh classy. So here's a pep talk by the great Iowa alum Col Jessup...or was it John Kreese. Anyways :

"Son, we live in a world that have fish, and those fish have to be dominated by Hawkeyes. Who's gonna do it? You TFBJR? You, Flying Tiger? Iowa has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Jimenez, and you curse Gilman. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Jimenez's butt whooping, while humorous, probably saved lives. And Gilman's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, gives you something to complain about. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at sportsmanship banquets where everybody gets a trophy, you want Hawks on that mat, you need Hawks on that mat. They use words like domination, excellence, and caddywhompus.  They use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them to whine like a b*tch. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain them to whiners who like a sport who they helped revolutionize, and then questions the manner in which they did it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you jump on the mat and sweep a leg...Either way, I don't give a damn what you think about my Hawkeyes."

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I think someone missed the joke there.....

Not at all - it is precisely my point and I made it a few pages back prior to her "joke".  This is not the military; this is student athletics.  Teach these kids how to be good citizens, good sports, and to dominate within the rules.  That is the job description.  

 

Convincing anyone on a Forum board is a near impossibility and not my goal.  I was taught to be a good sport and my kids have been taught to be the same.  I think it is a valuable skill.  Out.  

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When were the rules broken?  Is there a rule about pushing off your opponent when getting up after the whistle?  Does pushing off after the whistle really indicate the athlete would make a poor candidate for work off the mat after college?  What sport are you talking about when you say this reflects poorly on it?  It might reflect poorly on the athlete, but you go and infer it reflects poorly on the team, the coaching staff, the state of Iowa, and even every single wrestler ever.  I really think you are reading far too much into it.  

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Don't stop there - it reflects poorly on our interstellar competitors. 

 

Lots of questions; so little time.  Of course there is a rule about grinding a competitor's face into the mat.   

 

Sportsmanship is one of 16 defining principles of the Association:

NCAA Bylaw 2.4 The Principles of Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96)

Want a hoot - Google "Tom Brands sportsmanship".  Mostly you see this:  Missing: sportsmanship although there are quite a few entries with the word poor in them.  

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Don't stop there - it reflects poorly on our interstellar competitors. 

 

Lots of questions; so little time.  Of course there is a rule about grinding a competitor's face into the mat.   

 

Sportsmanship is one of 16 defining principles of the Association:

NCAA Bylaw 2.4 The Principles of Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96)

Want a hoot - Google "Tom Brands sportsmanship".  Mostly you see this:  Missing: sportsmanship although there are quite a few entries with the word poor in them.  

 

LOL.  Your level of personal hurt at this is hilarious.

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I have no issue with any antics as long as they aren't meant to physically hurt the opponent outside of the rules.  I honestly had no issue with what Gilman did against Waters.  He was frustrated with having a leach on his back and inevitably went with the option he thought best fit the situation.

 

No-no's

1.)Don't throw punches(elbows and knees fall into this category as well).

2.)Don't bite.

3.)Don't mess with privates.

4.)Don't body slam.

5.)Don't throw them into the scorer's table head first.

 

Fine-by-me's

1.)Fall backwards when a guy is draped across your back.

2.)Run into opposing team's huddle.

3.)Stare very meanly.

4.)Apply some elbow grease to the back of an opponent's neck.

5.)Grow a very fine mustache.

 

Not everyone is meant to be the Protagonist.  Antagonists are welcome.  Jonny Hendricks most assuredly agrees........

Edited by MSU158

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"LOL.  Your level of personal hurt at this is hilarious."

 

Vak, I think as a criminal defense attorney you have become desensitized to the harm violence can cause to our society. I realize it's just another paycheck to you, but for many it is indeed troubling to live in a society where the Gilmans of the world go free while the innocent suffer.  Posters like TFBJR should be commended for taking a stand and trying make things better for future generations. Please don't mock his efforts as you count your blood stained cash retainers.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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"LOL.  Your level of personal hurt at this is hilarious."

 

Vak, I think as a criminal defense attorney you have become desensitized to the harm violence can cause to our society. I realize it's just another paycheck to you, but for many it is indeed troubling to live in a society where the Gilmans of the world go free while the innocent suffer.  Posters like TFBJR should be commended for taking a stand and trying make things better for future generations. 

 

Let the dropping of names.......COMMENCE!!!

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No one said it was heinous, this is not Billy George, but he does repeatedly act like a punk.  Dominate a guy for 7 minutes and then shake his hand.  Doing anything else reflects badly on the sport.   My opinion.  

To draw a comparison to a Marine, even a fictional one, shows just how delusional you can be.  This is intercollegiate student athletics - not International sport, and definitely not life or death warfare.  Next step after these 5 years is to look for a job, not Gitmo.  None of this **** flies outside of a career in Iowa as a High School coach. 

 

 

Wow...just wow...do you take yourself this seriously in real life or just on the boards? Here's the ironic thing....Gilman would make an excellent Marine if he put on fifty or sixty pounds. His hard-nosed, tough as nails, all in attitude is something they cherish and is at the heart of their core values.

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"Gilman would make an excellent Marine if he put on fifty or sixty pounds. His hard-nosed, tough as nails, all in attitude is something they cherish and is at the heart of their core values."

 

As would Nate Tomasello.

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"Gilman would make an excellent Marine if he put on fifty or sixty pounds. His hard-nosed, tough as nails, all in attitude is something they cherish and is at the heart of their core values."

 

As would Nate Tomasello.

True that.

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Best wrestler I personally knew in the Marines was a dude by the name of Spielman.  NFLer's cousin, I believe.  He was from Ohio.  He was a just a jerk, and no one thought he was a good Marine.  Being an excellent wrestler in no way indicates you'd make an excellent Marine.  Sure the physicality and mental toughness part would be a no brainer, but there's a lot more to being a good Marine than that.  I don't know Gilman personally and don't mean to say he WOULDN'T be a good Marine, just that his status as an elite wrestler far from guarantees it.  There's a little something called Honor, as well.

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Coach Brands, a number of posters have harshly criticized your 125-pounder, Thomas Gilman.

Some have even stooped to the level of using vulgarities, calling him names like a$$hole or dick.

Is there anything you'd like to say in his defense?

They couldn't use a second take? I know Tom has one of those "large tongues," so maybe that was just in the way, but it was rough to see him struggle with choosing the correct indefinite article before "a-hole" Edited by LemonPie

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"Gilman would make an excellent Marine if he put on fifty or sixty pounds. His hard-nosed, tough as nails, all in attitude is something they cherish and is at the heart of their core values."

 

As would Nate Tomasello.

Nate Tomasello would crack me up as a marine. Or better yet, a drill instructor. That voice....

 

As for Gilman, do the Marines allow crumbstaches?

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Nate Tomasello would crack me up as a marine. Or better yet, a drill instructor. That voice....

 

As for Gilman, do the Marines allow crumbstaches?

Damn, Lemon Pie. I expected certain someone else comment about his voice. 

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Interesting comments from Foley's Friday Mailbag:

 

At the end of a technical fall victory last week, Thomas Gilman caused a minor message board stir when he stood up at the end of the match. The problem wasn't some Cam Newton-inspired celebration, but that Gilman used the back of his opponent's still prostrated body and head to up himself from the Resilite.

That action, known colloquially as "face-mushing" is essentially grinding your opponent's face in the mat in a manner that is neither sporting, nor kind. Though unlikely to cause physical damage, face mushing is a disrespectful gesture meant to prove dominance opponent -- something you would think a 15-point victory already achieved.

This type of brutish and combative behavior isn't just dumb, reductive and immature; it also propagates the wrongheaded culture within wrestling that aggression and intimidation are weapons to be utilized. While fan boys of needless hostility might find gestures like face mushing as an endearing necessity of (faux) tough guy culture, in reality it's nothing more than a display of misplaced testosterone and underlying insecurity. 

Winners don't denigrate and disrespect their opponents. Are they tough? Yes. Unrelenting in their forward pressure? Sure. Are they unapologetic in dominance? Of course. 

The great ones were known as great in part because of a technical elegance, but also personal grace. John Smith, Gholamreza Takhti, Kaori Icho and Alexander Karelin -- none of these greats are prolific smilers, but they also weren't total jerks. 

Trash talking, chest-bumping, and punch-throwing outbursts come about when wrestlers are taught to hide and protect their weaknesses and failures rather than explore them. The true champions don't see shortcomings as weakness, but as opportunities to improve. You don't get better because you emphasized the walloping of an opponent with a parting gesture more befitting a jailhouse than a wrestling mat.

Dollars to donuts, Thomas Gilman wins more matches if he tones down the bad boy rhetoric, and ceases to use intimidation as main wrestling skills. To fill the void of anger he (and others) could instead look at the technique missing from their repertoire and analyze it honestly and without bravado. 

Wrestlers like Gilman (and there are many who act out in a similar fashion) could find enrichment from self-awareness and by default probably win more wrestling matches. But more importantly they could become better brothers, sons and teammates.

 

 

Full Article here: http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/15630

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