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dtl38

Iowa vs Nebraska

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That official misapplied the rule as it is written. If wrestler A pushes wrestler B out of bounds, then the point should go to wrestler B, not to wrestler A (Stoll). 

I was going to ask Mike Allen about Stoll's freestyle pushouts, but he quickly left the arena.

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I really don't understand how that ref was interpreting the new rule. A couple times Stoll tied up his opponent and pushed him out of bounds with no offensive attempt.  That is supposed to be a stall on him but was called on the Nebraska wrestler. Not that it would of changed the outcome, Stoll was the better wrestler, but the rule was not meant to be a reward for a push out. 

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Stoll digs in underhooks and looks for upper body moves, Nebraska kid backs off the mat and you guys want Stoll penalized.  Nebraska could have circled, as he did at other points in the match.  What else is Stoll supposed to do there?  It's difficult for guys that size to shoot on a retreating opponent, although Stoll did attempt a knee block one time.

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You say Nebraska backed off the mat, I say he was pushed off the mat with no opportunity to circle due to Stoll's underhooks keeping him upright. Not every time, but at least twice I saw this. Again, this rule was not meant to be a absolute push out rule, it was meant to promote action. The way I understand it, this is a two way street and stalling is supposed to be called on the wrestler that remains in the circle when he pushes another out of bounds without an offensive attempt. That being said, I'm open to hearing from some of the zebras that frequent this board for clarification.  

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Stoll is pushing that guy out because of his body mass. That ain't wrestling, that is pushing. They should name the push out portion of the new rule "the Stoll rule" in honor of him, because he has benefited disproportionately from the new rules.

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Stoll is pushing that guy out because of his body mass. That ain't wrestling, that is pushing. They should name the push out portion of the new rule "the Stoll rule" in honor of him, because he has benefited disproportionately from the new rules.

 

 

Sure it is,  Unfortunately it is Sumo Wrestling.  

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Re: Stoll and Stalling I think there's a very fine line to walk here (literally and figuratively) and it comes down to consistent officiating.  Stoll's offense is currently largely a product  of his upper-body/Greco techniques.  He digs his underhooks and/or gets to over/under positions in order to initiate his offense.  When the opposing wrestler attempts to back out of the holds out of bounds they absolutely should be called for stalling.  That said, Stoll seems like a pretty cerebral wrestler and he clearly tests the boundaries when he's on the mat; if the calls are going his way, you can't blame him for continuing to push on the edge.  He's gotten calls both ways this year which were mostly appropriate.

 

In this weekend's match he was definitely the aggressor throughout the match, especially from his feet.  Jensen did little offensively and was constantly backing out.  Add to the fact that the Nebraska mat looked to be on the smallish side and it's not surprising that there were some stalls called.  Is it a judgement call?  Of course, that's the ref's job.  Unfortunately, there is going to be some variability, however I think that in this first year of the rule, it has been overall good for the sport and has increased action in the circle.

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the new stall rule, on the out of bounds line, is mostly a push out rule it seems to me. If Stoll's opponents would try and circle back in then the call would go against Stoll imo, at least it should. What I have noticed is that when they simply back straight out they are getting called. When they try and circle back in Stoll has been called.

Seems to me, while not all stall calls are great, things are MUCH better than past years.

Now if we can just get all the stalling called that is called a stalemate we will have made progress.

Edited by AKHUNTER

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Re: Stoll and Stalling I think there's a very fine line to walk here (literally and figuratively) and it comes down to consistent officiating.  Stoll's offense is currently largely a product  of his upper-body/Greco techniques.  He digs his underhooks and/or gets to over/under positions in order to initiate his offense.  When the opposing wrestler attempts to back out of the holds out of bounds they absolutely should be called for stalling.  That said, Stoll seems like a pretty cerebral wrestler and he clearly tests the boundaries when he's on the mat; if the calls are going his way, you can't blame him for continuing to push on the edge.  He's gotten calls both ways this year which were mostly appropriate.

 

In this weekend's match he was definitely the aggressor throughout the match, especially from his feet.  Jensen did little offensively and was constantly backing out.  Add to the fact that the Nebraska mat looked to be on the smallish side and it's not surprising that there were some stalls called.  Is it a judgement call?  Of course, that's the ref's job.  Unfortunately, there is going to be some variability, however I think that in this first year of the rule, it has been overall good for the sport and has increased action in the circle.

Great post!

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the new stall rule, on the out of bounds line, is mostly a push out rule it seems to me. If Stoll's opponents would try and circle back in then the call would go against Stoll imo, at least it should. What I have noticed is that when the simply back straight out they are getting called. When they try and circle back in Stoll has been called.

Seems to me, while not all stall calls are great, things are MUCH better that past years.

Now if we can just get all the stalling called that is called a stalemate we will have made progress.

Well stated.

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the new stall rule, on the out of bounds line, is mostly a push out rule it seems to me. If Stoll's opponents would try and circle back in then the call would go against Stoll imo, at least it should. What I have noticed is that when the simply back straight out they are getting called. When they try and circle back in Stoll has been called.

Seems to me, while not all stall calls are great, things are MUCH better that past years.

Now if we can just get all the stalling called that is called a stalemate we will have made progress.

 

Exactly.  Stoll has been called for stalling multiple times this year for that very thing.  This match wasn't an example of it.  Clouded by bias notwithstanding.

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pushing , and the stall call are tough to be sure about at times.  If you have a good tie, are comfortable there, and are not in danger, (double under, Russian arm...), but push the guy around the mat, are you stalling?  really you could do nothing but wait until the opponent does something stupid to try and keep from being warned, but aren't you also stalling then?  A tie that is being used for a take down attempt, yes,  but just to control and get a call, no.   I am not talking about Stoll only, and not this match, but try wrestling 285 when your 220 and not back up a little.   At 285 if you shoot, you loose.

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pushing , and the stall call are tough to be sure about at times.  If you have a good tie, are comfortable there, and are not in danger, (double under, Russian arm...), but push the guy around the mat, are you stalling?  really you could do nothing but wait until the opponent does something stupid to try and keep from being warned, but aren't you also stalling then?  A tie that is being used for a take down attempt, yes,  but just to control and get a call, no.   I am not talking about Stoll only, and not this match, but try wrestling 285 when your 220 and not back up a little.   At 285 if you shoot, you loose.

I guess you haven't seen Gwiz, Waltz, Snyder....shooters all.......... and there are more

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I guess you haven't seen Gwiz, Waltz, Snyder....shooters all.......... and there are more

I have, infact I have seen Gwiz and Waltz wrestle 1-1 OT matches because they couldn't do anything to the big strong guy with a good tie and if they shot to get off the tie they would lose.   It just isn't that easy and a tie used to push and/or block is more stalling than backing away.

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there is a difference between......couldn't and wouldn't. I don't remember in the book where it said it was easy. Maybe..........just maybe someone is pushing to get some pressure back from your opponent backing away could be construed as more refusing to engage. 

If, from neutral, you back up I say you are stalling. You may say, I am getting you to come to me. Another way to get someone to come forward is to push them.

If ANYONE shoots in the proper position they aren't going to lose simply because they took a shot. Now you shoot in weak/poor position yup you're gonna get burned. Snyder, not a big HWT., to me, has better position on his shots than any of those mentioned. Going to be interesting to see how that comes out.

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