More horrible coaching in PA

[GuillermoBilletas 149]

First the CV/CD debacle

 

Next we have a completely classless move by Belle Vernon and calling out headgear tape 

 

http://highschoolsports.lehighvalleylive.com/news/article/8985702852407616209/becahi-throttles-belle-vernon-in-class-aaa-state-wrestling-semifinal/

 

and finally, a so called coach from Reynolds gets a W for his wrestler by pointing out an improperly laced shoe

 

http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/8985706852426616200/boiling-springs-rod-wright-upset-after-ticky-tack-violation-thats-cheapi-would-never-do-that-as-a-coach/

 

 

Terrible.  Just gross.

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Guillermo, you feel the coaches should have ignored the violations?  

[headshuck 2,627]

Wow that's some crazy stuff. I can't imagine living in a small community with that type of stuff going on.

[leshismore 216]

Guillermo, you feel the coaches should have ignored the violations?  

Wow,... I must be getting old. But I am now agreeing with Guillermo more and more now.

 

And YES CT--some trivial things should be ignored. What good does it do to be so petty. What does that teach ANYONE.  That they WON?  They won because of a piece of tape or shoelace?  Great lesson for the kids and the sport.

 

These coaches should be ashamed but they won't be because they simply have no class or common decency in their bone.  Very sad... because these kids will remember how cheap and shallow their coaches are much more than the fact that they "WON".

[LemonPie 1,368]

The shoelace thing is beyond ridiculous. Coach and ref should be embarrassed.

[DuckFor2 219]

Guillermo, you feel the coaches should have ignored the violations?  

If i was the coach, yes, that's not worthy of a deciding point in OT. the fact that one kid's laces weren't through the top eye hole is worthy of a point is ludicrous! 

 

who would make that rule? 

 

and they enforce these dumb rules at the elementary level too. 

[GuillermoBilletas 149]

Guillermo, you feel the coaches should have ignored the violations?  

Me and every other non a-hole in the world.

 

If you want to win that way, you should quit coaching

[lewiebakes 7]

That's like telling a cop you shouldn't get a ticket because you weren't going THAT much over the speed limit. Just follow the rules and you have no problems.

[leshismore 216]

That's like telling a cop you shouldn't get a ticket because you weren't going THAT much over the speed limit. Just follow the rules and you have no problems.

You must be a great guy at a party.  I would bet that I could list 100 rules or laws you would not like to follow.  How do you feel about THIS one.

"The Gateway Sexual Activity Bill was passed by the Tennessee House of Representatives. The bill outlaws students handholding with each other while at school (because, according to the Tennessee House of Reps this is a "gateway" to sexual activity). It also allows the parents of the student to sue the teachers if they feel the teachers aren't doing enough to prevent sexual activity among the students."

[mpg190 3]

Those coaches went all Bill Belichick. I mean it is kind impressive that they were astute enough to know the minutiae of the rules like that, or maybe they are just crazy people.

[OBJoeB 32]

Those are idiotic rules - penalty points for uniform "violations".  Could you imagine that happening in another sport?  Basketball - player doesn't have his shoes laced to the top - other team gets 2 points.  Football - get the equivalent of a safety or field goal.  Baseball - have a run.  Soccer - have a goal & double your team's offensive output.  What a joke. 

 

I understand not wanting wrestlers to have loose tape on their headgear but it being worth a point to the other wrestler is absurd.  And why is the shoelace rule even a rule??  That just might be the most absurd sports rule I've come across. 

 

Also, shouldn't the ref have noticed the serious shoelace violation before the match started?  As a technical violation, shouldn't the ref be checking the wrestlers' uniforms before the match starts?

Edited February 20, 2016 by OBJoeB

[OBJoeB 32]

That's like telling a cop you shouldn't get a ticket because you weren't going THAT much over the speed limit. Just follow the rules and you have no problem

No, it isn't.  Speed limits could be viewed as safety concerns for other drivers on the road, how is "improperly lacing one's shoelaces" a potential deadly safety concern? 

This is like handing out a $500 fine for not having a front license plate on your vehicle (that is if your state has that in the vehicle code).

 

 

Awarding points for uniform violations is a bad policy, overall.  How many other sports award the other competitor like this, allow a match/game be ended by a uniform violation?

[MadMardigain 1,638]

I'd be happy to see a team warning for the first infraction for these type of situations. Then award a point after if it happens again.

[Rakkasan91 75]

A few rules points to add.

 

1.  The NFHS rule does not require tape, it states that shoes must be properly secured.  Different states interpret that differently.  Some regard tape as satisfying the rule, some accept double knots as properly secured, most consider a shoe with some sort of device built into the shoe as being OK.

 

2.  Regarding headgear tape, the NFHS states that equipment shall be worn as intended by the manufacturer.  Headgear manufacturers don't have any tape on headgear when it comes out of the package.  Again, different states have different interpretations.  Some require zero tape.  Some allow tape if it used for fitting purposes.  Believe the intent of this rule was to eliminate some of the biological experiments some wrestlers were growing in their headgears.

 

3.  If a wrestler doesn't comply, then the penalty is not being properly equipped.  That is a technical violation (1 match point) and an injury timeout is used and the wrestler is on the clock until they can correct the deficiency. A few years ago, the head coach used to be hit with an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for a wrestler that was not properly equipped (1 team point).  The penalty on the coach only lasted a year or two before it was taken out.

 

I'll add, from my experience, most referees don't look for trouble regarding these type of infractions.  Most, that I know, will "look the other way" if a wrestler reports to the mat and his shoes aren't properly secured.  After the match, the ref can go over to the coach and say "hey coach, next time he wrestles, how about having him secure his shoes correctly."  Most coaches now know that they got a little break.  I know that I can find these infractions if I look hard, especially in tournaments.  If you look for boogers long enough, you will find one. 

 

Now if during the course of the match the shoes, as an example, become unsecured the ref really can't hide that and a penalty is forthcoming.  Same applies if a coach brings the violation to the ref's attention.  The ref now has to take action.  I may have known the shoes weren't correct or didn't notice it when the match started, but if a coach makes an issue, he has now forced me to act and that act is going to cost somebody a match point and injury timeout.  I'll say that I may have only had one or two coaches bring something like this to my attention over a long period of officiating.  But it is a playing rule and it depends what state you wrestle in as to how it is enforced or satisfied.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Rakkasan91

[Chrissn2001 81]

...and the BV coaches continue to show their knowledge of the rules:

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39795-weight-plan-confusion-costs-verkleeren-postseason

[MadMardigain 1,638]

...and the BV coaches continue to show their knowledge of the rules:

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39795-weight-plan-confusion-costs-verkleeren-postseason

Awful that their initial decision cuts him out of his weight class, and deplorable that they won't let him wrestle off to make up for their mistake.

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Me and every other non a-hole in the world.

 

If you want to win that way, you should quit coaching

 

 

I'm not talking about winning, I'm talking about violations and their enforcement.   In the event it may lead to a win, it be ignored, but not otherwise?   Or violations should never be enforced.   Just seems odd to want them not enforced, if they lead to a win.   Why ever enforce them then?  What is the purpose of having actions deemed violations?  

[PANewbie 35]

More PA coaching incompetence:  Jared Verkleeren's coaches hosed up his descent plan so he can't wrestle 145 or 152...AND won't let him wrestle off for 160.  Gotta love the adults screwing it up for the kids.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39795-weight-plan-confusion-costs-verkleeren-postseason

[TBar1977 4,611]

I'm not talking about winning, I'm talking about violations and their enforcement.   In the event it may lead to a win, it be ignored, but not otherwise?   Or violations should never be enforced.   Just seems odd to want them not enforced, if they lead to a win.   Why ever enforce them then?  What is the purpose of having actions deemed violations?  

 

 

Please stop. The coach who won on a shoe lace eyelet thingee should be ashamed of himself. He is a joke. 

[TBar1977 4,611]

More PA coaching incompetence:  Jared Verkleeren's coaches hosed up his descent plan so he can't wrestle 145 or 152...AND won't let him wrestle off for 160.  Gotta love the adults screwing it up for the kids.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39795-weight-plan-confusion-costs-verkleeren-postseason

 

 

Kid is being unfairly punished imo. Cadet world champ and he can't go in PIAA's is stupid. 

[BobDole 1,240]

A few rules points to add.

 

1.  The NFHS rule does not require tape, it states that shoes must be properly secured.  Different states interpret that differently.  Some regard tape as satisfying the rule, some accept double knots as properly secured, most consider a shoe with some sort of device built into the shoe as being OK.

 

2.  Regarding headgear tape, the NFHS states that equipment shall be worn as intended by the manufacturer.  Headgear manufacturers don't have any tape on headgear when it comes out of the package.  Again, different states have different interpretations.  Some require zero tape.  Some allow tape if it used for fitting purposes.  Believe the intent of this rule was to eliminate some of the biological experiments some wrestlers were growing in their headgears.

 

3.  If a wrestler doesn't comply, then the penalty is not being properly equipped.  That is a technical violation (1 match point) and an injury timeout is used and the wrestler is on the clock until they can correct the deficiency. A few years ago, the head coach used to be hit with an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for a wrestler that was not properly equipped (1 team point).  The penalty on the coach only lasted a year or two before it was taken out.

 

I'll add, from my experience, most referees don't look for trouble regarding these type of infractions.  Most, that I know, will "look the other way" if a wrestler reports to the mat and his shoes aren't properly secured.  After the match, the ref can go over to the coach and say "hey coach, next time he wrestles, how about having him secure his shoes correctly."  Most coaches now know that they got a little break.  I know that I can find these infractions if I look hard, especially in tournaments.  If you look for boogers long enough, you will find one. 

 

Now if during the course of the match the shoes, as an example, become unsecured the ref really can't hide that and a penalty is forthcoming.  Same applies if a coach brings the violation to the ref's attention.  The ref now has to take action.  I may have known the shoes weren't correct or didn't notice it when the match started, but if a coach makes an issue, he has now forced me to act and that act is going to cost somebody a match point and injury timeout.  I'll say that I may have only had one or two coaches bring something like this to my attention over a long period of officiating.  But it is a playing rule and it depends what state you wrestle in as to how it is enforced or satisfied.

If a previously secured shoelace becomes unsecured isn't that the same as a headgear coming off? If not I'll go and grab laces all I want and rack up penalty points.

[headshuck 2,627]

I think you'd do well to bite and grip the ankle to free up your hands to work the laces.

[Rakkasan91 75]

If a previously secured shoelace becomes unsecured isn't that the same as a headgear coming off? If not I'll go and grab laces all I want and rack up penalty points.

 

Bob,

 

 Yes, that is the intent.  It would become legal equipment that became illegal.  It gets fixed without penalty or injury time.

 

[Plasmodium 2,316]

What happens when a shoe is pulled off?  Did the kid 'forget' to lace up his shoes so he could pull out of them and win a scramble?  If there is no consequence, I'd damn sure do that.  Tear-away jerseys work!

Edited February 22, 2016 by Plasmodium

[Rakkasan91 75]

What happens when a shoe is pulled off?  Did the kid 'forget' to lace up his shoes so he could pull out of them and win a scramble?  If there is no consequence, I'd damn sure do that.  Tear-away jerseys work!

Again,  this depends on what your state interpretation is.  Where I am at, if a shoe comes off during the course of wrestling it is an automatic technical violation (1 match point) and injury time started for the wrestler that lost his shoe.  I would add that it is pretty rare to see a shoe come off but it does happen from time to time.