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quanon

Fixing the Pushout

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LameNelson, I'm glad you were able to take pleasure in watching those thrilling matches.  I want that time back.

 

 

Chris Perry:

Must not have hit a fireman's carry on Howe I guess

 

Tony Nelson: 

No sweep singles for him

 

Jesse Delgado:

Didn't finish his own shot against Garrett in the 2nd period

 

Tsirtsis:

Never finished his underhook single on Kindig 

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quanon,

 

The rules don't have to be crystal clear when you actually wrestle hard for 7 minutes. If you are willing to do that, the murky rules will rarely if ever, come into play. If you notice these unclear or questionably applied rules don't follow wrestlers around, the same wrestlers ( for the most part ) continue to win or lose by them. I do see an increase of action this year but there wouldn't have even needed to be an out of bounds stalling rule if the wrestlers would continue action instead of needing 15 seconds to rest multiple times a period.

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quanon,

 

The rules don't have to be crystal clear when you actually wrestle hard for 7 minutes. If you are willing to do that, the murky rules will rarely if ever, come into play. If you notice these unclear or questionably applied rules don't follow wrestlers around, the same wrestlers ( for the most part ) continue to win or lose by them. I do see an increase of action this year but there wouldn't have even needed to be an out of bounds stalling rule if the wrestlers would continue action instead of needing 15 seconds to rest multiple times a period.

 

If a match lasts seven minutes, the wrestlers are almost certain to go out of bounds.  If it's not clear whether that is stalling or not, the rules are murky.  If the wrestling continues while it is partially out of bounds, but how far it can continue depends on a referee's discretion, the rules are murky.  

 

The rules don't have to be crystal clear - they're not and we still have wrestling.  But why shouldn't the rules be clear?

 

We can't rely on wrestlers to be perfect -- all competitors are going to do their best to exploit the rules.  Many, many high level wrestlers see stalling as advantageous.  I don't see that changing anytime soon. Or ever.

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If we introduce a 2 foot step-out = stall warning rule, then nothing about the current out of bounds will change. 

 

In neutral, I shoot a sweep single. The defending wrestler steps both feet out of bounds to defend the single, ref hits him with a stall warning. I finish the takedown, earn 2 points and we continue to wrestle until the ref calls us out of bounds. 


How is that sumo wrestling? How is that antithetical to the spirit of folkstyle? How is that confusing? 

 

edit: spelling

Edited by GranbyTroll

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quanon,

 

I agree that wrestlers will go out of bounds during a full 7 minute match but if they are both doing their part ( trying to score points ) then the stalling call should not come into play whether they go out of bounds or not. Highly offensive wrestlers don't care about stalling other then the fact that if they wrestle at a better pace than their opponent, the stalling call would possibly be awarded in their favor ( as it should be in my opinion ). Stalling should be a clearer rule but I don't think a pushout rule in folkstyle is advantageous. Again I agree that wrestlers aren't going to be perfect but they already know that if they wrestle harder than the other guy, they might not win but they won't get called for stalling. They all know this but not all apply it.

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No pushout

No riding time point

No escape point

 

Maybe go neutral after 30 seconds without a point scored in refs position?

yeah......... no sense having wrestles learn how to wrestle from underneath. Just stall until the ref gives you a break and lets you up.

If you can't get out from bottom......you don't deserve out from bottom!! I EARNED the chance to turn and pin you. EARN your way out.

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My take on what I would like to see:

 

Baseball has the obstruction rule where a baserunner makes contact with a fielder.  It is a delayed call, umpire sees it, holds a fist straight out to his side and the play continues.  After the play has concluded, If in the umpires view, the runner would have made it to the next base, he awards the base.  

 

I would like to see something similar for a step out.   If a wrestler steps out of bounds (OOB), official will indicate which color stepped out with some signal to be determined and action continues with normal OOB rules.  If action continues to a score, by either wrestler, no step out point is awarded, the action created a score.  If action continues to a normal OOB call or stalemate, without returning in bounds, a point will be awarded.  If the wrestler that stepped out returns completely in bounds, the signal is dropped and no points awarded - no harm, no foul.    

 

Normal wrestling at the edge can continue.  If a wrestler happens to just step out but then returns in bounds, he is wrestling and no points awarded for a slight misstep.  If you step out, stay out and no one scores, a point is awarded.  A wrestler that steps out has an incentive to get back in bounds.  If he does, no points.  If he doesn't he gives up a point.  Might make for some interesting counter wrestling on the edge.  

 

Should be relatively simple for the official to call.  One new mechanic.  A real flurry of wrestling at the edge will be the hardest thing; who stepped out, did they return in bounds, etc. but I don't think it would be that bad and relatively infrequent and the official could always review video.  

 

Might add a little excitement to a match also. Fans see the Step Out signal and know that unless he fights back in bounds or creates his own score, he will give up a point, but the action still continues.

Edited by sbdude

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yeah......... no sense having wrestles learn how to wrestle from underneath. Just stall until the ref gives you a break and lets you up.

If you can't get out from bottom......you don't deserve out from bottom!! I EARNED the chance to turn and pin you. EARN your way out.

 

Fair point; I've gone back and forth on the idea, and definitely don't want to see big-bird defense enter NCAAs.  I think the other changes would be sufficient by themselves.  To take it a step further, I think that what you earn by escaping should be not being underneath anymore.  Mostly put the stand-them-up option in there for discussion sake.

Edited by GoNotQuietly

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How do they handle the issue where an opponent won't let him back in bounds?

 

That would work just like freestyle. Unless your opponent straight arm shoves you out of bounds, if both of your feet step out in neutral it's stalling. In freestyle this has created a lot of action on the edge when neither wrestler can afford to give up the 1pt. 

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