Matt Brown ranking? Mike Evans? 174?

[MSU158 1,982]

This is the first time I have felt compelled to ask WHY? I understand rankings are very difficult to do and am nearly always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but the Intermat ranking in this case has me BAFFLED! Perry 1, Storley 2 makes perfect sense. Matt Brown at 3? Going into the week Heflin was 2. He gets beat by an undefeated 7th ranked Evans in OT. Evans only moves up one spot to 6 and Heflin drops to 7? Matt Brown gets PINNED by Storley and doesn't drop a spot? Kokesh dominates at Midlands his only loss of the season being in OT to Storley and he stays behind Brown at 4? Asper has a loss to Blanton currently ranked 8th who is behind Evans but the undefeated Evans at 6 stays behind Asper at 5? I don't want to be critical because I truly appreciate the hard work those in charge of the rankings do. However, this looks like either a diehard PSU fan did the rankings or it was slammed together super fast with limitted thought behind it. I would really like to hear a "rational" explanation of this because I simply can not wrap my mind around it.........

[dansabin 7]

I'm not expert, but a few things I believe I have learned.

 

1. You don't get rewarded for losing, whether in OT or by Fall, a loss is a loss.

 

2. You get rewarded for how well you win. If you tech the #5 guy, you'll get moved ahead of him, but that leads to the question are you #5 or is #5 really not that good. So, what typically happens is the lower ranked guy gets moved up and the higher ranked guy gets moved down. You don't often see wrestlers just jump ahead .

 

3. Upsetting a higher ranked guy doesn't mean you automatically get ranked higher. Upsets happen. While say #4 gets upset in a close match by #18. #4 will drop in rankings and #18 will move up, but #4 might only drop to #8 and #18 might only move up to #13 or something like that. It depends on the entire season, not just the most recent win or loss.

 

My opinion, Heflin was overrated big time at #2 and Evans beating him wasn't an upset in my book. Heflin taking him into overtime was a surprise to me. Matt Brown is also overrated at #3 (IMO), but time will tell. I don't follow this weight class that closely outside of Evans and Yates. Asper probably should be ranked lower than Evans, but I think he might be in the finals this year.

[jammen 336]

Try a better ranking service.

 

http://awn.theopenmat.com/2013/01/awn-d ... ry-8-2013/

 

[table][tr][td]174 pounds[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Chris Perry[/td][td]Jr.[/td][td]Oklahoma State[/td][td]17-0[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Logan Storley[/td][td]So.[/td][td]Minnesota[/td][td]13-1[/td][td]3[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Robert Kokesh[/td][td]So.[/td][td]Nebraska[/td][td]22-1[/td][td]6[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Mike Evans[/td][td]So.[/td][td]Iowa[/td][td]9-0[/td][td]11[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]Jordan Blanton[/td][td]Sr.[/td][td]Illinois[/td][td]12-2[/td][td]4[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]Josh Asper[/td][td]Sr.[/td][td]Maryland[/td][td]6-1[/td][td]5[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]Nick Heflin[/td][td]Jr.[/td][td]Ohio State[/td][td]7-1[/td][td]2[/td][/tr][tr][td]8[/td][td]Matt Brown[/td][td]So.[/td][td]Penn State[/td][td]14-1[/td][td]7[/td][/tr][/table]

[RealAmericanHero 127]

I think the difficut thing about ranking is that as fans, we expect a shift when #6 beats #3. But if the #16 beats that same #6, we explain it away as "it was a fluke" or give the oft heard "we'll see in the end who the better wrestler is".

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

Another thing is, as fans, in viewing rankings, we lose site of the nature of the sport. I often fallen into this trap. I think a guy is truly #3 forgetting that they still have to wrestle the matches, despite any ranking!

 

As someone who has tried his hand at ranking wrestlers, one of the highest attributes I looked for was consistency. It may seem hard to measure, but it is the most telling.

 

Consider all of the national champions who have finished undefeated! That is certainly something special. Now consider all the guys who weren't. What set them apart as winning a national title? Showing up at the National tournament, and peeking at the right time.

 

Caldwell v. Metcalf, IMO, ends with a Metcalf win 8.71234764123728 times out of 10. Therefore I would rank Metcalf ahead of Caldwell. But you know, on a certain day in March, not too long ago, Caldwell got his chance.

 

Now I ask... should Caldwell have been ranked ahead of Metcalf at any point during the season? If yes, why? If no, then you get it.

[lewiebakes 7]

Your logic becomes flawed when you bring up Caldwell vs Metcalf. Because Caldwell actually won 66% of the matches wrestled and 100% of official NCAA matches. Including one by pin.

[Jason_L._Jackson 5]

If Heflin doesn't miss a month with an injury, he beats Evans.

 

Heflin scored the only offensive points in regulation.

 

The stalling was a little questionable, considering he was circling and did take a shot. He actually had a body lock, that he initiated, when he was hit the second time.

[OtisCampbell 94]

If Heflin doesn't miss a month with an injury, he beats Evans.

 

Heflin scored the only offensive points in regulation.

 

The stalling was a little questionable, considering he was circling and did take a shot. He actually had a body lock, that he initiated, when he was hit the second time.

 

Heflin could have been hit a couple more times for moving constantly backwards that whole match. The no takedown for Evans was questionable. If Evans stops Heflin from getting out from underneath next time he is likely to pin him in half nelson. When Evans has some more time to build himself up to be a true 174lber no way Heflin beats him.

 

Shoulda Coulda Woulda

[scribe 1,824]

Seems like 3-8 are really tied for third.

[dsauer22 4]

Sick weight come big10 tourney time. It will all figure itself out in time.

 

As a PSU fan, I think M.Brown has the ability to beat anyone in the country. From an unbiased standpoint, i believe he should be more like #7 or 8 until he proves it.

[PA-Fan 0]

Matt Brown gets PINNED by Storley and doesn't drop a spot?

 

Not that this affects the rankings, as someone pointed out a loss is a loss...but I think you are severly misrepresenting this match up for anyone who may not have seen it.

 

If my memory serves correctly, the score was 0-0 when the scramble/reversal/fall happened. Not taking anything away from Storley, he is a monster. But he is not far and away ahead of Brown...certainly not by fall.

 

Also, not to mention, they are now 1-1 in their careers (Brown beat him at last years Scuffle).

[TBar1977 4,490]

Seems like 3-8 are really tied for third.

 

Pretty much. Also, everyone behind Perry, except Asper, is in the Big10 too, so this will all sort itself out.

[scribe 1,824]

Matt Brown gets PINNED by Storley and doesn't drop a spot?

 

Not that this affects the rankings, as someone pointed out a loss is a loss...but I think you are severly misrepresenting this match up for anyone who may not have seen it.

 

If my memory serves correctly, the score was 0-0 when the scramble/reversal/fall happened. Not taking anything away from Storley, he is a monster. But he is not far and away ahead of Brown...certainly not by fall.

 

Also, not to mention, they are now 1-1 in their careers (Brown beat him at last years Scuffle).

 

aka 'he got caught'

[viratas 3]

A win is a win, a pin is a pin.

 

Do I think Storley pins him again. No I do not.

 

Matt Brown beat Storley who was a true freshman 2 months into his career. That 1 win should not hold his spot in the rankings. Lets look at this from a logical point of view.

 

This year:

 

Browns biggest win is over Brown of Lehigh. He has wrestled 1 guy ranked ahead of him and has loss.

 

We have him 8 which based on the wins he has is pretty fair IMO. If he had won over storley then there is a case for top 3. There is zero case to have him over Kokesh who loss to storley also. Kokesh won both Cliff Keen and Midlands. How is that not better then a 3rd at Scuffle?

 

He will be wrestling some of these other soon, if he wins he moves up.

[PA-Fan 0]

Matt Brown gets PINNED by Storley and doesn't drop a spot?

 

Not that this affects the rankings, as someone pointed out a loss is a loss...but I think you are severly misrepresenting this match up for anyone who may not have seen it.

 

If my memory serves correctly, the score was 0-0 when the scramble/reversal/fall happened. Not taking anything away from Storley, he is a monster. But he is not far and away ahead of Brown...certainly not by fall.

 

Also, not to mention, they are now 1-1 in their careers (Brown beat him at last years Scuffle).

 

aka 'he got caught'

 

You are the worst. I made a single point with this post, that MSU was misrepresenting the match up, period. I didn't say Brown should have won, or he would win if they meet again, or he got caught, or he deserved to win, or he should be ranked higher...none of that. Do I think Brown should be ranked higher than 8? No. Do I think that he could beat Storley, yes.

 

But if you want to open up this type of argument, weren't you of the the "Amuch pounded Ruth, and the injury had nothing to do with it, and Ruth shouldn't be favored over him in a rematch..." guys? If I recall correctly, you were. How did that work out? How about Taylor getting trounced by Dake in freestyle? Dake sure has blown him out in their two folk meetings, huh. A single lop-sided result does not mean much...especially if the match was tied 0-0 when you get reversed to you back in a scramble and pinned.

[viratas 3]

I agree with that.

[silver-medal 670]

If Heflin doesn't miss a month with an injury, he beats Evans.

 

Heflin scored the only offensive points in regulation.

 

The stalling was a little questionable, considering he was circling and did take a shot. He actually had a body lock, that he initiated, when he was hit the second time.

 

Stalling call was a lot questionable. Had they called it earlier, no problem. But to call it while Heflin is actually in on a leg?

 

Heflin got the only takedown in regulation and escaped in about three secs from a good rider. He deserved to win.

[Serial_Thriller 77]

He deserved to win.

 

Now that's funny.

[headshuck 2,587]

He deserved to win.

 

Now that's funny.

 

 

How about "He didn't deserve to lose?"

[Serial_Thriller 77]

He deserved to win.

 

Now that's funny.

 

 

How about "He didn't deserve to lose?"

 

Still funny. The guy drug his feet the whole match and you can argue Evans got screwed out of a takedown earlier. Poo-poo happens.

[headshuck 2,587]

Never would have been called in any other gym in the nation I'll bet.

[dback_5 0]

Never would have been called in any other gym in the nation I'll bet.

Ah yes it would have. I was at the dual in person. If you werent there the stalling call looked horrible on tv, if you were you would have clearly saw that the ref called stalling when Evans shot. It just so happened that Heflin re-shot. Doesnt change the fact that the stalling was already called. And, if you dont want to be dinged for stalling then dont stall. Doesnt matter what gym you are in.

[headshuck 2,587]

Any other opinions? Where's rossel?

[dback_5 0]

Any other opinions? Where's rossel?

Well, Tom Ryan stated over the phone on his interview there was way too much stalling going on by his team, so from the horses mouth there you have it. For some reason a lot of Iowa fans have beef with Tom Ryan, which I dont understand, but the guy is an old Hawkeye who wrested for Gable. That guy will not tolerate stalling, and he knows it when he sees it, and he saw a lot of it in Carver.

[headshuck 2,587]

Well there you go, Ryan thought Heflin deserved to lose. Sorry silver-medal.

[TBar1977 4,490]

Just looked at Iowa's sched. In the next 30 days Evans gets a shot at Perry, Storley, Matt Brown, Blanton, and Kokesh. Everyone will know where he stands before Big10's and NCAA's.