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landlordbob

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McIntosh didn't take any shots not sure what was up.

Nickal was way too invested in the throws and he paid for it big.

Nolf gave a great match, needed to hold on with that first period TD.

Good performance as a team, not the end of the night they wanted. Nickal and Nolf will reach the top step eventually.

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Nickal threw it away by trying to be flashy. If he wrestled tight, he wins. I'm an OSU supporter, but Bo proved that consistently this season.

 

Nolf I can't blame. He wrestled well.

 

J'Den is just better than Macintosh. Macintosh can beat him, but jden was the favorite.

 

Zain has no challenges. I hope there is some freshman that comes out of red shirt and is amazing. I want to see Zain challenged.

 

Super excited for Nico. Sad he isn't coming back.

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Penn State will be fine, even better than fine. They'll be the favorite for years to come.

 

McIntosh was facing a guy that is a complete freak of a man. As strong as Morgan is, J'Den is even stronger. No issue whatsoever with what Morgan was at least trying to do, which was to hopegfully see J'Den eventually get tired. Never came. 

 

Bo Nickal learned something. He was leading 4-3 and I honestly believe he wins that finals match if he just settles for leg attacks. I think he tried to throw from a weak position and while most times he makes it work, last night Myles rolled thru it and planted Bo for the deciding 4 count. 

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Guys like Nickal make the sport awesome.  I wish we had more Nickal's, Walsh's, Ian Miller's, and Sammy Brooks'!  i know there are others but as much as I like the technical beasts(like Retherord) I also like the "kitchen sink guys".  Maybe Nickal will learn his lesson, but doesn't he strike you like the kind of guy who loves that style and will live or die by it?

 

ps.  Speaking of Miller, how could you not love his limping back to the center like he couldn't walk and then immediately hitting a beautiful inside trip!

Edited by pennsyrules

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Bo Nickal learned something. He was leading 4-3 and I honestly believe he wins that finals match if he just settles for leg attacks. I think he tried to throw from a weak position and while most times he makes it work, last night Myles rolled thru it and planted Bo for the deciding 4 count.

 

Hopefully Nickal learns from this match. Going for an all or nothing move at a dual in mid December is one thing, but perhaps not wise leading in a national championship match. You can remain aggressive but still be smart about it. He reminds me of Quentin Wright and I think Q learned to harness his risk taking.

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Housebuye with the post of the day.,.

 

Only thing I can say is I don't see Retherford being challenged but then again I never thought I would see Steiber challenged

 

I said the same about Troy Letters after he won as a sophomore.  You just never know what the future holds...

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I said the same about Troy Letters after he won as a sophomore.  You just never know what the future holds...

People were saying the same about Andrew Howe following his true sophomore season.

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Bo Nickal has a cockiness about him. I don't say that often but he radiated arrogance the whole tournament and especially in the finals. His big moves when a national title and the chance to be a 4x-er is on the line is something that comes from some place deep inside because he knows and Cael knows and everyone on these boards knows that he has these tendencies. So if he learned anything this tournament it's that these tendencies are dangerous and are going to hold him back. He can be one of the greats. He just needs to rein it in. 

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I have a different view on Nickal. If he reined it in too much, he wouldn't be the same wrestler. He is feared by everyone because he can make you count the ceiling lights at any given moment from any position. Guys hold back and get on the defensive against him, which makes him that much more effective. Even Myles admitted during the post-match interview that he thought Nickal had him on his back but instinctively wrestled brought to reverse the position. That doesn't go his way every time, and it was 50/50 to me whether he was going to be able to do it in the first place, let alone again.

The Quentin Wright comparison is a good one. Both guys are extremely dangerous, which forces their opponents to hold back and puts the match in their control. Both guys are more effective when dictating positions and pace.

If Nickal tried to wrestle a Megaludis type of controlled and highly selective style, I don't think he gets the same results next year.

I'm not saying he wouldn't benefit from taking some smarter risks, but to be as effective as he was this year, he needs to let it fly more often than not.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Nerd, I agree with you, Nickal is defined by his aggressive and highflying moves. My observation was he was over the top and could have reined in and, as you say, taken some smarter risks. One thing that confused me was that Nickal wrestled Martin three times this year, each more dominant than the last. He went into the finals knowing his opponent better anyone else. So if anything he would have known the risks.

 

Meanwhile Martin lost three times this year including to the Northern Illinois guy who had a pretty weak record. I watched a lot of Myles' matches and thought going into the finals that the stars just kind of aligned for him, but is there a possibility he just figured it all out come tournament time?

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I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the overall performance. I thought they'd walk away with 3 titles. I figured Zain and Bo were safe bets. I thought Morgan would lose. And I thought Nico and Nolf were coin flips and 1 would win between them. 

 

Nico winning put me in a great mood to start the night. If he was a 3x runner up, I would have been pretty upset for him. He had been so good for so long. Going into the season, I thought this was his year and I couldn't have been happier to be right. 

 

I don't want to get ahead of myself but unless someone really comes out of nowhere, Zain will have a very long win streak to end his career. On top of being great in all 3 positions, he's a big point scorer and his top game is scary. And as he showed his freshman year, he knows how to win the close matches. 

 

Half of me wants to see Nolf and IMar continue to beat the hell out of each other for the next 2 years and the other half of me wants to see them go separate weights so they both can prosper since they both are just so good. 

 

Pretty upset about Bo. I agree with everything in here. He needs to know when to go high octane and when to dial it back. I think that will come with experience and maturity. His big move threat will open up his leg attacks and vice versa if he integrates it all well enough. Sometimes a single is enough to win the game but swing for the fences if they hang a curveball. 

 

Morgan is a trooper. His career took more of a hit than it should have by taking one for the team when he should have redshirted on any other team his freshman season. He was a great wrestler who had a great career but always had someone who was just a step better. 

 

Next year, Penn State will be even better than this year which is both incredible and scary at the same time. 

 

125 - Suriano

133 - Cortez

141 - Guilibon

149 - Zain

157 - Nolf

165 - Joseph

174 - Bo

184 - McCutch

197 - Cassar/Stout

HWT - Nevills

 

That line up is going to be a handful for anyone. 

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I hope Nickal doesn't change much.  He is awesome and a real treat to watch.  Everyone pays attention when he wrestles.  We need more like him.  I get walk folks are saying. I too felt like he was a bit over-confident.  But I hope he keeps the fireworks coming.  Love it.

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Is Rasheed that big? 

 

I felt bad for McCutch this year. Solid wrestling for most of the season, and then injuries just took him apart at the end.

Rasheed looked like the second biggest guy on the team (after Nick Nevills) in the photo they took after the trophy presentation on Saturday night. I would not be surprised at all to see him challenge for the 184 spot next year. (I have no idea how he does in the room against McCutcheon ... I agree with you that McCutcheon's season was derailed by the back and knee injuries.)

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Agree completely with nerd, he was an NCAA finalist specifically because of his attacking, aggressive, semi-sloppy style of wrestling.  Not only did it work for him but it kept his opponents constantly afraid of what he'd do.   Abandoning what got him there could have very well resulted in a 3-2 loss and everyone would say he should have went for it. 

 

Keep being you, Bo Nickal.  Keep being you. 

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They just graduated a national champ, a finalist and a 6th place finisher, and you think they will be better?  I am done doubting PSU and will definitely consider them the favorite until proven otherwise, but I definitely can't consider a team returning 3 AA's from last season better than the one that just won it all by 25.5 points.

 

125: significant drop- Suriano- may end up being really good, but he is a true freshman entering a weight that returns Gilman, Tomasello, Youtsey, Peters, Millhof, Schram, Cruz, Bresser, Rodriguez, McGhee and Dance along with guys like Freddie Rodgriguez adjusting to a DI room.  AAing in that weight class will be exceptionally difficult, and remember he will be replacing the National Champ.

133:even-Cortez/Gulibon-I would believe it is best for Gulibon to go back to 133, but it may not be what is best for the team depending on Cortez's size and ability.  Still, Garrett and Brewer graduate so one of them has a chance to duplicate Conaway's finish.

141:even-Gulibon/Cortez/?-See 133.

149:even to slightly less: Retherford only missed the maximum possible scoring by 1.5 points.  Very hard to duplicate, let alone improve on.

157:even-Will this weight continue to be a 2 man race or will someone with Smith's pedigree be able to challenge?  Still he has proven to be too good to pick him to letdown any!

165:even- Joseph was definitely a high school stud, but so was Zach Kemerer.  With weight management issues, he didn't show enough to make an educated pick to put him above the 2-2 results at this weight this season.  Someone close to the program, WITHOUT TINTED GLASSES, may truly believe he is there, but I couldn't put him there until he shows it on the mat at 165.

174: even-174 thinned out so much due to graduation and injury that Epperly(7th) was the only returning AA at the weight from the season before.  Hammond took 8th 2 years prior.  Ramos was an AA at 165 but he looked to be overpowered(possibly undersized) in the Tournament.  Realbuto was an AA 2 weights down but fell early to injury.  With that said, this weight is there for the taking for Nickal.  But, there is a ton of youth at the weight and Nickal will most likely have to continue to improve considering that Martin, Epperly, Jackson, Weatherspoon, Meyer, Butler, Rogers/Crutchmer, Brunson and Realbuto all return.  Again, I have learned not to pick a letdown for PSU.

184: possible improvement depending on health-Still, 184 returns Dean, Dudley, Renda, Boyd, Miklus, Brooks, Zavatsky, Abounader and Dechow.  It's still going to be a very hard weight to reach the podium.

197:  Huge drop off!-No matter who they put here, it will be a significant drop.

285: Significant improvement depending on health-Nevills definitely had the talent to be an AA, but injuries are very hard to come back from in the biggest weight class.  285 also returns AA's in Snyder, Coon, Walz, Dhesi, Kroells and redshirting Medberry.  Add in Hall, Black and Stoll and the weight will be tough!

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They just graduated a national champ, a finalist and a 6th place finisher, and you think they will be better?  I am done doubting PSU and will definitely consider them the favorite until proven otherwise, but I definitely can't consider a team returning 3 AA's from last season better than the one that just won it all by 25.5 points.

 

125: significant drop- Suriano- may end up being really good, but he is a true freshman entering a weight that returns Gilman, Tomasello, Youtsey, Peters, Millhof, Schram, Cruz, Bresser, Rodriguez, McGhee and Dance along with guys like Freddie Rodgriguez adjusting to a DI room.  AAing in that weight class will be exceptionally difficult, and remember he will be replacing the National Champ.

133:even-Cortez/Gulibon-I would believe it is best for Gulibon to go back to 133, but it may not be what is best for the team depending on Cortez's size and ability.  Still, Garrett and Brewer graduate so one of them has a chance to duplicate Conaway's finish.

141:even-Gulibon/Cortez/?-See 133.

149:even to slightly less: Retherford only missed the maximum possible scoring by 1.5 points.  Very hard to duplicate, let alone improve on.

157:even-Will this weight continue to be a 2 man race or will someone with Smith's pedigree be able to challenge?  Still he has proven to be too good to pick him to letdown any!

165:even- Joseph was definitely a high school stud, but so was Zach Kemerer.  With weight management issues, he didn't show enough to make an educated pick to put him above the 2-2 results at this weight this season.  Someone close to the program, WITHOUT TINTED GLASSES, may truly believe he is there, but I couldn't put him there until he shows it on the mat at 165.

174: even-174 thinned out so much due to graduation and injury that Epperly(7th) was the only returning AA at the weight from the season before.  Hammond took 8th 2 years prior.  Ramos was an AA at 165 but he looked to be overpowered(possibly undersized) in the Tournament.  Realbuto was an AA 2 weights down but fell early to injury.  With that said, this weight is there for the taking for Nickal.  But, there is a ton of youth at the weight and Nickal will most likely have to continue to improve considering that Martin, Epperly, Jackson, Weatherspoon, Meyer, Butler, Rogers/Crutchmer, Brunson and Realbuto all return.  Again, I have learned not to pick a letdown for PSU.

184: possible improvement depending on health-Still, 184 returns Dean, Dudley, Renda, Boyd, Miklus, Brooks, Zavatsky, Abounader and Dechow.  It's still going to be a very hard weight to reach the podium.

197:  Huge drop off!-No matter who they put here, it will be a significant drop.

285: Significant improvement depending on health-Nevills definitely had the talent to be an AA, but injuries are very hard to come back from in the biggest weight class.  285 also returns AA's in Snyder, Coon, Walz, Dhesi, Kroells and redshirting Medberry.  Add in Hall, Black and Stoll and the weight will be tough!

I actually think this is a pretty fair assessment of the situation.  It is really early (2016 ended 4 days ago) but optimism reigns for everybody at this point.  I think that Penn State is going to be more balanced next year than they were this year.  The bottom 4 weights scored a total of 4.5 points for Penn State in 2016.  Being optimistic, I would like to think that 2017 might be the year that Penn State approaches Minnesota's 2001 accomplishment of 10 All Americans.  I admit that it is very optimistic, and might be unrealistic.  The point is that Penn State won this year because their top 5 were incredible.  Next year they might not need 5 finalists, if they get 8, 9 or 10 AA's.

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As we gear up for another off-season of Penn State prognostications, here, as a public service, are some of the pearls of wisdom offered on this board in the past year about the 2015-16 team:

 

"I will quit posting if Zain bonuses Sorenson or even Tsirtsis." (OtisCampbell, 12/2/2015, in the thread "Way Early Season Hodge Frontrunners.")

 

"I don't think piling up the talent for a run a year later works that great. Look at the Sooners last year." (Scribe)

 

"My reservations about PSU isn't that they aren't deep and talented. It is that they don't have a clear favorite to reach the finals, let alone win it. They look eerily similar to the Iowa team of this past season." (MSU158)

 

"Cael's coaching ability will be determined after the double class and the two wunderkinds have graduated." (Jammenz)

 

"how is Megaludis' psyche after ducking Delgado last season? If Mega wasn't ready last season, how can he be ready now?" (cjc007)

 

"If Retherford can't make 141, that weakens Penn State throughout IMO. Conaway isn't a real 133 ..." (Vak)

 

"Conaway went 3-2 at the NCAA tournament (in 2015), Harding went 2-2 and is the younger man with the steeper learning curve. I don't feel bad about calling this even at all." (Vak again)

 

"I think Zain needs to cut to 141. ... His frame just isn't big enough to wrestle 149, even if he's put on muscle." (Wrestler9111)

 

"Retherford is likely a step ahead of the other 149 pounders, but he is not a scoring machine." (Perry)

 

"Retherford-The guy is legit. But remember, as good as he was, he still only took 5th ... I just don't see him in the Finals. 4th." (MSU)

 

"You have rfr Nickal placing 5th?! Is this the same Nickal whose lost to McCulley and whose best college win is over Pickett? ... " (Jammenz, part 1)

 

"Crutchmer, Martin, Brunson, Massa, Butler, Walters, Epperly, Weatherman, and McCulley all rank ahead of the unproven frosh Nickel who has zero good college wins under his belt." (jammenz, part 2)

 

"Nickal is barely top five in the B1G. Meyer-IA, Mahones/Massa-MI, Brunson-IL are the top tier with Nickal battling Welch, Martin, Sebastian in the next group." (Get the feeling Jammenz really doesn't care for Bo Nickal?)

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Great post Phifer. These guys don't learn. Instead of worrying about there own teams, they make fools of themselves doubting PSU. Guess what 5 titles in 6 yrs. Haters gonna hate. I just want to enjoy a nice year as the champs. Not even concerned about next year. We will be stacked and some other teams will be great as well. Should be fun.

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Lol at MSU158 posting his PSU predictions.

 

No, they won't be as good as this year. I'm high on Joseph and very low on Morelli, so obviously I'm gonna disagree with your assessment there. Hopefully Joseph wrestles some freestyle in the coming months. And at worst, even if Joseph flames out, Hammond would be better than Morelli was this year. I mean, he beat Daniel Lewis!

 

I think Cortez is the biggest question mark for me. Tremendous athlete, and I've seen him hang with Zach Sanders and Hochstrasser, but sometimes it seems like he's holding back on offense. I'm optimistic, just cautiously so.

Edited by LemonPie

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