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Medicine_Man

Best Freshmen of 2015-16

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Now that the dust has settled, how do you rank the top 5 freshmen (RS or true)? Is Myles Martin #1 ?

Well, he certainly had the biggest single achievement which is a solid objective measure. But I haven't seen enough of him to conclude he's the best by other measures. If you look at total body of work, he had 6 losses. McKenna, Nolf, Bo, etc did better by that measure. I'll go with Myles based on where he ended up, but don't mistake that for a prediction regarding who will ultimately have the best career!

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125 - Ryan Milhof, OU

 

133 - No one stands out

 

141 - Joey McKenna, Stan

 

149 - Justin Oliver, CMU

 

157 - Jason Nolf, PSU

 

165 - Daniel Lewis, MIZZ

 

174 - Bo Nickal, PSU

 

184 - Zack Zavatsky, VT

 

197 - Patrick Downey, ISU

 

Hwt - Tanner Hall, ASU

 

Honorable Mention - Myles Martin, 174 tOSU

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125 - Ryan Milhof, OU

 

133 - No one stands out

 

141 - Joey McKenna, Stan

 

149 - Justin Oliver, CMU

 

157 - Jason Nolf, PSU

 

165 - Daniel Lewis, MIZZ

 

174 - Bo Nickal, PSU

 

184 - Zack Zavatsky, VT

 

197 - Patrick Downey, ISU

 

Hwt - Tanner Hall, ASU

 

Honorable Mention - Myles Martin, 174 tOSU

How can you put Bo above Myles?

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Freshmen finalists this season:

Nolf:2nd place- #4 Overall recruit.  Great, relentless talent.  Definitely benefited from a redshirt year of training in the PSU room.
Nickal:2nd place- #7 Overall recruit.  Wide open, let's the fur fly style.  Had same benefits as Nolf and greatly benefited from all the top guys graduating at 174.
Martin:Champ-#4 Overall recruit.  Had a great room to train in and went to the most likely to have you ready High School.  Still, what he pulled off as a true freshman is absolutely amazing.  However, he did also benefit from the top 6 from last year at 174 either graduating or being injured.


Freshmen AA's:

McKenna 3rd place-#8 Overall recruit.  Deferred enrollment for OTC training. Jr world medalist.  Definitely one of the guys that became as college ready as possible by doing so.  See Kyle Snyder.
Chisko: 6th place-#12 Overall recruit.  Wrestled a full redshirt schedule gaining valuable experience going 34-7.  Definitely one of the best up and coming rooms in the country.
Oliver:7th place-#114 Overall recruit.  Went to Davison High(2x Champ, 172-5), arguably Michigan's top High School for producing DI talent.  A perfect example of Borelli's ability to develop talent.  Also wrestled a full redshirt season going 25-7 gaining valuable experience.
Smith:7th place-#16 Overall recruit.  Considering his family history, could a student athlete be more prepared than he had to be?
Lewis:4th place-#35 Overall recruit. 4X High School champ. Another guy that benefited from wrestling a full redshirt season finishing 21-8 gaining valuable experience. Great mat wrestler that you rarely see at the freshman level!
McFadden:6th place-#17 Overall recruit.  2x Champ, 4X placer in New Jersey.  Tooks his lumps as a true freshman but had a great NCAA Tournament run.  Definitely benefited from the talent and experience in the room around him!

Total Freshmen qualifiers from 125-285: 6+7+10+4+8+5+6+4+3+3=56.

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125 - Ryan Milhof, OU

 

133 - No one stands out

 

141 - Joey McKenna, Stan

 

149 - Justin Oliver, CMU

 

157 - Jason Nolf, PSU

 

165 - Daniel Lewis, MIZZ

 

174 - Bo Nickal, PSU

 

184 - Zack Zavatsky, VT

 

197 - Patrick Downey, ISU

 

Hwt - Tanner Hall, ASU

 

Honorable Mention - Myles Martin, 174 tOSU

Re:  174 pounds.  So I play you in poker and you win several small hands.  Then, when the pot is huge, I win.  Do you understand now or will other posters have to explain the analogy?  

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When's the last time there was a true freshman national champ? All you guys saying Bo will have a better career. That may be the case in a few years but that's not the case now. A true freshman MM won the national title, he beat Bo when it counted.

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Great topic here.  I guess it all depends on how we are ranking them.  Are we ranking them in order of most dominant wrestler?  Or which ones will most likely have the greatest overall career?  Or had the greatest season?

 

If I am ranking which one had the best season, hands down is MyMar and I bet if you ask all the other freshman they would say the same.  They all had the ultimate goal of winning a title.  And only 1 did.  

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Nolf was the best freshman by far.  Martin was the best true freshman.  Martin won it at a super thin weight class.  It was a great accomplishment, but he didn't have the defending undefeated champion at his weight, along with a slew of returning AA's.  Nolf actually pinned that undefeated champ once, DOMINATED the rest of the field, and lost 2 razor thin decisions to Martinez.

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Nolf was the best freshman by far.  Martin was the best true freshman.  Martin won it at a super thin weight class.  It was a great accomplishment, but he didn't have the defending undefeated champion at his weight, along with a slew of returning AA's.  Nolf actually pinned that undefeated champ once, DOMINATED the rest of the field, and lost 2 razor thin decisions to Martinez.

 

I do not disagree that Nolf was the most dominant freshman wrestler this season.  Don't try to discredit what Martin did by saying he won at a super thin weight class.  Nolf did amazing things this year and is actually my favorite college wrestler to watch. However I absolutely guarantee that Nolf would trade his dominant season for MyMar's place on the podium.

 

Like I said above it depends on how you are ranking the freshman.  Compare it the NCAA basketball tournament.  If a 6 loss team wins the title instead of the the team with only 1 loss who was ranked 1st all year, when the final rankings come out post tournament, the 1 loss team will probably not be ranked 1st anymore.  Or I could be wrong...I really don't follow basketball.  :)

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It's not meant to discredit Martin as much as to draw a comparison between the difficulty in accomplishing what he did versus Nolf. How do you think Martin does if at least 3 of Brown, Wilps, Kokesh, Storley and Evans were still there?

 

Of course everyone wants to be the champ more than anything, but some guys have MAJOR obstacles in their way while others may only have a bumpy road.

 

Martin ended his season with the best accomplishment of all freshman, but he was not near the best freshman wrestler.

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It's not meant to discredit Martin as much as to draw a comparison between the difficulty in accomplishing what he did versus Nolf. How do you think Martin does if at least 3 of Brown, Wilps, Kokesh, Storley and Evans were still there?

 

Of course everyone wants to be the champ more than anything, but some guys have MAJOR obstacles in their way while others may only have a bumpy road.

 

Martin ended his season with the best accomplishment of all freshman, but he was not near the best freshman wrestler.

 

I totally understand what you are saying.  But lets evaluate the actual weight classes that Nolf and MyMar competed in at the tournament.  

 

By my count (correct me if I am wrong), 157 had 4 returning AA's, including a champ:

 

Imar 

Ian Miller 

Nick Brascetta 

Brian Murphy 

 

Now, I got 174 with 5 returning AA's (again, correct me if I am wrong), including a former finalist:

 

Realbuto

Ethan Ramos

Zach Epperly

Bryce Hammond

Cody Walters

 

157 also had Nolf and 174 had Nickal - they are a wash.  Both had equally dominant seasons and Nickal is a former world medalist.  However for the sake of this conversation, Nolf doesn't have to wrestle himself yet MyMar still had to go through Nickal.

 

Funny thing is that between Nolf and MyMar, they only wrestled 1 returning AA on the way to the finals.  That would be when Martin beat Hammond.

 

While I do believe that 157 was a bit more top heavy (largely due to having returning champ IMar and Miller), 174 actually was a deeper weight class in my opinion.  And while you were quick to point out, and rightfully so, about the guys that exited 174 to clear a way for Martin, the 157 weight class also benefited from that by having Ness and Green graduate, Realbuto move up, and 2xAA Minotti out with injury.

Edited by brando413

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There is no doubt in my mind that Jason Nolf is a better wrestler, right now, than Myles Martin;  There is also no doubt in my mind that Myles Martin doesn't give a damn what I think because he earned his NCAA title by out-wrestling everyone in front of him. 

 

Pretty much sums it up!  Great way of putting it.  

 

Just curious, but how do you think Nolf would have fared as a true freshman at the NCAA tournament?  And where does everyone thing Martin will progress to next year?  I will say this, no matter what, there is some amazing young talent in the NCAA's and the next few years are going to be a real treat.

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I totally understand what you are saying.  But lets evaluate the actual weight classes that Nolf and MyMar competed in at the tournament.  

 

By my count (correct me if I am wrong), 157 had 4 returning AA's, including a champ:

 

Imar 

Ian Miller 

Nick Brascetta 

Brian Murphy 

 

Now, I got 174 with 5 returning AA's (again, correct me if I am wrong), including a former finalist:

 

Realbuto

Ethan Ramos

Zach Epperly

Bryce Hammond

Cody Walters

 

157 also had Nolf and 174 had Nickal - they are a wash.  Both had equally dominant seasons and Nickal is a former world medalist.  However for the sake of this conversation, Nolf doesn't have to wrestle himself yet MyMar still had to go through Nickal.

 

Funny thing is that between Nolf and MyMar, they only wrestled 1 returning AA on the way to the finals.  That would be when Martin beat Hammond.

 

While I do believe that 157 was a bit more top heavy (largely due to having returning champ IMar and Miller), 174 actually was a deeper weight class in my opinion.  And while you were quick to point out, and rightfully so, about the guys that exited 174 to clear a way for Martin, the 157 weight class also benefited from that by having Ness and Green graduate, Realbuto move up, and 2xAA Minotti out with injury.

I think Martin's National Championship trumps everything, but anyone who reaches the conclusion 174 was better than 157 is nuts.  

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Guest Kingsland

125 - Ryan Milhof, OU

 

133 - No one stands out

 

141 - Joey McKenna, Stan

 

149 - Justin Oliver, CMU

 

157 - Jason Nolf, PSU

 

165 - Daniel Lewis, MIZZ

 

174 - Bo Nickal, PSU

 

184 - Zack Zavatsky, VT

 

197 - Patrick Downey, ISU

 

Hwt - Tanner Hall, ASU

 

Honorable Mention - Myles Martin, 174 tOSU

Millhof was a sophomore. He wrestled as a true freshman, but after watching how much he improved I think it's a shame he didn't redshirt. Also I think Downey is technically a sophomore even though this is his first year of d1.

VT's freshmen, Chishko, Zavatsky, and McFadden were all very impressive.

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Here's the biggest difference to me.  If you had Nolf wrestle everyone at 157 he would beat everyone not name Martinez or Miller 99 out of 100 times.  He would probably beat Miller 80 out of 100 and Martinez about half the time.

 

If you put Martin up against the top 10, I would put him at considerably less than half against Nickal and would have him behind Epperly and close with Jackson, Butler, Hammond, etc.  Now, his level of improvement and confidence went up considerably as the season progressed and he may leap off the charts before his career is over.

 

He accomplished the ultimate accomplishment and only 9 other guys can say that this year.  But, I simply can't look at what he and  Nolf did this year and put Martin ahead of him, or even in the same category, simply based on his winning the Tournament.

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What is neat about Myles is he can still red shirt, so if there is a year in the next few where Ohio State is rebuilding, he can take a year to get better and then come back and dominate.

 

Maybe next season makes sense for his own sake. He could win it again next year, but with a year off to train, he could come back in 2017/2018 and kill everyone

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In response to T-nigs23's question...  it has been happening more frequently in recent years.  Counting M. Martin, there have been 4 since 2006:

 

Martin won has a true frosh in 2016

J'den Cox won as a true frosh in 2014.

Dake won as a true frosh in 2010.

D. Schlatter won as a true frosh in 2006

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