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Medicine_Man

Best Freshmen of 2015-16

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Re:  174 pounds.  So I play you in poker and you win several small hands.  Then, when the pot is huge, I win.  Do you understand now or will other posters have to explain the analogy?  

It's my list.  No need to insult my intelligence, that was uncalled for.  If you disagree, feel free to post your own.  You must have had a bad day.  

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It's my list.  No need to insult my intelligence, that was uncalled for.  If you disagree, feel free to post your own.  You must have had a bad day.  

No, my day was pretty good.  It's your list and you can choose who you want.  I did not mean to be a d-ck.  Then again, I hope you recognized my point.  

 

 

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I recognized your point.  Don't need to be a genius to see that NCAA Champ is better than silver-medal.  Honestly, I just figured MSU158 would agree with me, and that is infinitely better than having him disagree with you. I took the path of least resistance.

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Taking it a step further... How would a preseason ranking of 2016-17 freshman list go? Zahid Valencia #1? Is he a 184?

I think it is safe to say there is little doubt that both brothers will compete at a high level. Considering those two weight classes and how they aren't very deep I could definitely see them competing for an AA placement right away. 

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Someone asked about next years freshmen class.  Guessing a lot about weights and who may start as a true freshman:

 

125  Micic MI   Piccinni OSU    Suriano PSU   Mueler Va

 

133  Brock OSU    Nasser ASU   Cortez PSU (I know hes So elig)  Clayton Mo

 

141  Hayes Oh St  Koldizak Prct  Villareal ASU    Krivus Va

 

149  Prince Navy   Kemmerer Io ( Pos @ 157 if BS stays @ 49)

 

157  If Nolf goes up Joseph or Manville - PSU    Maruca ASU

 

165 Log Massa Mi      Marianelli Io      Shields ASU  Joseph PSU if JN stays @ 57

 

174  A Valencia ASU   M Hall PSU if he decides to compete  Lujan No Io

 

184  Z Valencia  ASU    Montalavo Ill  

 

197  Benick ASU   Moore Oh St    Jakobsen Lehigh

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Martin had the best tournament (and even that's arguable if you look at Nolf's performance) and we really value the tournament.  But he's not the best freshman in the country or even the weight.  If he and Nickal wrestle tomorrow, who are you putting money on?  Nolf is the best freshman in the country.  Incredible.  Just stuck battling another all time great.  

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Nolf was the best freshman by far.  Martin was the best true freshman.  Martin won it at a super thin weight class.  It was a great accomplishment, but he didn't have the defending undefeated champion at his weight, along with a slew of returning AA's.  Nolf actually pinned that undefeated champ once, DOMINATED the rest of the field, and lost 2 razor thin decisions to Martinez.

 

 

 

I have to agree.   Pretty spot on.  There's no  question Nolf is the best frosh, he demonstrated that wire to wire.   The undefeated defending national champion is no longer undefeated because of Nolf and the dominance Nolf showed, puts him head and shoulders above the rest.   Martin has the title, but this topic is asking for who the best is.   That's clearly Nolf.   

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I completely forgot about KD. I thought Cox was a redshirt frosh. I agree with you guys that Nolf and Nickal are better technical wrestlers. My whole thought process about Martin being the best is that he won it as a true frosh. If you throw a true frosh Nickal in this bracket how would he have done? If you throw in last years Nolf in this bracket how would he have done? I'm willing to bet a true frosh Nolf would've AA in this bracket and the same for Bo but could they have won it? Nolf and yea you can argue that Nickal are the best wrestlers but at this point MM has the better accomplishment.

Edited by T-nigs23

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133  Brock OSU    Nasser ASU   Cortez PSU (I know hes So elig)  Clayton Mo

 

Naser won a CA JUCO State Championship for Fresno City in the fall of 2013, red-shirted there for 14-15 and wrestled at the ASU RTC this past season 15-16.

 

He will be a RS junior next season (unless he - someway/somehow - gets an Olympic shirt, which I don't believe he's eligible for?)..

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Best True Freshmen

 

1. Myles Martin

2. JoJo Smith

3. Elijah Oliver

 

 

Best Redshirt Freshmen

 

1. Jason Nolf

2. Bo Nickal

3. McKenna

Isn't McKenna a true Frosh? That's how he's listed on the Stanford roster. He deferred enrollment while training at the LVAC, and did not matriculate until this year. Edited by lu_alum

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Define 'True'.

Joey graduated HS a year ahead of Myles but has the same 5 years ahead of him.

Maybe there should be a 3rd category. The term True Freshman is informal. They're both Fr not RS-Fr.

Correct. He still has the ability to take both a RS and and an Olympic RS in the future.

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When I posted the initial question, I was thinking of who I would want on my team, and I'd  want Nolf and Nickal first two....then I don't know.  I'm not sure I'd take Martin 3rd, I mean he caught Bo with a 6 pointer that I don't see happening next time they meet.  I might take Joe Smith or McKenna 3rd.

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Although it is funny to compare him to the "Dake loses every fantasy match" theme, I don't really think Martin is getting dissed at all.  Everyone is giving him his due for winning.  It's just that he did lose multiple times to Nickal and I don't think his upset win in the finals trumps that.  And Nolf's season was so good there is no way to argue Martin over him, regardless of his winning a title!

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I took the season as a whole.  Bo had a better season, and I think he'll have the better career as well.  I think  Bo wins 2 of 3 consistently against Myles.  If Myles' wins are always in the NCAA finals, then he'll prove me wrong.

Bo beat Myles three of four this year, but it so happened that the fourth was NCAA finals. What happened? Did Myles come into his own finally or was it a fluke? That's the key questions.

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I do have to say that MSU has the most impressive back handed comments out of any one on this forum.  He is able to dish them out without any effort and is able to back track faster than Usain Bolt can run the 100.

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BigBrog,

 

Backhanded.  Really?  Where in the hell was I backhanded in this post?  I said Martin was clearly the best true freshman this season.  I said that Nolf was clearly the best freshman.  I said that Nickal beat Martin too many times to put Martin over him solely due to his winning the tournament.  Where in the hell is any of that back handed.

 

 

I stand by EVERYTHING I SAY.  With more data, opinions change.  Look at every major sport analyst.  As each week progresses they have power ranking and the teams change drastically throughout the season.  Are they backpedaling like Usain Bolt when they change rankings and opinions after they get more results???????

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Clearly you either don't know what a backhanded comment is, or you are so into your self that you can't be objective about what you post??

 

Could you ever say something nice about someone you may not "like" without putting a caveat on it?  Like Martin was an NCAA champ....and leave off "in a weak weight class"  Or..."Martin was the best freshman" and add the part of "Nickal beat Martin too many time...blah blah blah.."  Fine....you think Nolf was the best freshman....can't you leave it at that?

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I think YOU don't understand what backhanded means. It implies insincere, indirect or ambiguous.  I have been none of those.  I simply quantify each statement.

 

It's not like I am walking up to Myles and saying nice job, you won but you aren't the best freshman!  I wouldn't do  that. This is a topic that is talking about the BEST FRESHMEN of the year. It is a thread that NEEDS comparisons, strength of competiton, etc. to post a worthwhile opinion.

 

It isn't the how do you boost egos by only saying positive things thread.  And I really like Martin. I picked him to make the finals and think he is an extremely talented wrestler.

 

I give major compliments to people all the time.  I have said that Conaway has quite possibly the biggest heart in DI wrestling.  I gave him big props when he won it all.

 

 

Everyone would tie for 1st if you only said the good things.  Are you one of those participation trophy advocates?

Edited by MSU158

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Here's the biggest difference to me.  If you had Nolf wrestle everyone at 157 he would beat everyone not name Martinez or Miller 99 out of 100 times.  He would probably beat Miller 80 out of 100 and Martinez about half the time.

 

If you put Martin up against the top 10, I would put him at considerably less than half against Nickal and would have him behind Epperly and close with Jackson, Butler, Hammond, etc.  Now, his level of improvement and confidence went up considerably as the season progressed and he may leap off the charts before his career is over.

 

He accomplished the ultimate accomplishment and only 9 other guys can say that this year.  But, I simply can't look at what he and  Nolf did this year and put Martin ahead of him, or even in the same category, simply based on his winning the Tournament.

there is NOTHING simple about winning the tournament...... and imo, going forward, Nickal probably had his best chance to beat MyMar on Saturday night. The future is VERY right for MyMar imo.

Edited by AKHUNTER

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there is NOTHING simple about winning the tournament...... and imo, going forward, Nickal probably had his best chance to beat MyMar on Saturday night. The future is VERY right for MyMar imo.

Never said it was.  He accomplished something I could only dream of doing.  

 

You lost me after that.  Are you saying that Nickal's best chance at beating Martin was that night(he had already beaten him 3x) and going forward Martin is the favorite and likely winner?

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