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What would it take to get the SEC into wrestling?

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Growth of high school wrestling.

chicken or the egg. If a college program is established in the south won't that trickle down to more high school participation from the increased exposure of wrestling on a higher brand (college) ? And to get more high school participation you need more promoters of the sport, more youth camps, more emphasis. I just don't think anyone cares down there about wrestling and you don't have the wrestling bloodlines through generations that are out there promoting the sport.

 

The best athletes are in the south. Think of how many top notch wrestlers are being left out because it's not a popular sport down there. We probably take out the russians and have a few more burroughs

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How do you think the higher brand will get exposure? Very few watch the NCAA championships on TV or go to a college dual meets as it is.

 

I don't see a college program driving high school wrestling. Missouri wrestling was good before Smith built the Tigers program into what it is... California high school wrestling is good despite a derth of college programs... North Carolina has more D1 programs than any state outside of Pennsylvania, yet the state is not strong and interest is not high in the state for their college programs.

 

I just don't see the college programs getting exposure to the kids or making the kids even more interested. Kids wrestle because they enjoy it, not because they enjoy following individual athlete's at the NCAA individual championships. More people would rather watch football than play football and more kids would rather wrestle than watch a three day wrestling tournament.

 

Our current system has done nothing to convert kids into wrestling spectators, despite all of the exposure of college wrestling Flowrestling has brought to high school kids.

 

(Mobile)

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A concerted effort with State Legislators who approve funding for the schools.

Emphasize the fact they are telling a batch of kids "We don't want you"! They force these kids to go to schools out of State rather than provide programs to keep them and their talent at home.

 

Sure it is about the money - the money they spend on the favored few.

 

Every State should have at least one State University with a wrestling program. Every State should have at least one State University with a sports program offered for every High School sport offered in the State. Not having this sends the message to the kids that they are not welcome, not wanted and not appreciated.

I pretty much have been advocating for years that every sport fully endorsed by a states HS governing body, should be offered by the states primary land grant school. But I suspect that where the NCAA and NFSHSA to agree on this a lot of Southern States would just force the dropping Wrestling, Swimming, etc  

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How do you think the higher brand will get exposure? Very few watch the NCAA championships on TV or go to a college dual meets as it is.

 

I don't see a college program driving high school wrestling. Missouri wrestling was good before Smith built the Tigers program into what it is... California high school wrestling is good despite a derth of college programs... North Carolina has more D1 programs than any state outside of Pennsylvania, yet the state is not strong and interest is not high in the state for their college programs.

There have been several threads on the NC wrestling board about the college teams and the fact that particularly in the past UNC and NC State especially wouldn't really recruit much in state. I think NC State has done some more recently, not sure about UNC but they both have a fair amount of NC walkons.

 

App State has done a bunch of recruiting in NC and had a pretty good year this year.

 

I think Clemson is the obvious choice as the best chance to add wrestling. It's actually about the same distance from Charlotte as most of the NC schools which is the biggest metro in the state. You also have D2 Newberry in SC which does pretty well in D2 I think.

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There have been several threads on the NC wrestling board about the college teams and the fact that particularly in the past UNC and NC State especially wouldn't really recruit much in state. I think NC State has done some more recently, not sure about UNC but they both have a fair amount of NC walkons.

 

App State has done a bunch of recruiting in NC and had a pretty good year this year.

 

I think Clemson is the obvious choice as the best chance to add wrestling. It's actually about the same distance from Charlotte as most of the NC schools which is the biggest metro in the state. You also have D2 Newberry in SC which does pretty well in D2 I think.

NC State and UNC didn't recruit the state because of the lack of talent. I don't see how that is a good reason to think there is a trickledown (unless I missed your point).

 

Also, you already have a D1 in SC... The Citadel.

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NC State and UNC didn't recruit the state because of the lack of talent. I don't see how that is a good reason to think there is a trickledown (unless I missed your point).

 

Also, you already have a D1 in SC... The Citadel.

There's not much depth but there is talent in NC. I agree with you that college programs likely aren't going to help HS participation a whole lot but I think the fact that UNC and NC State still get a fair amount of NC walkons (and the fact that App State has had some success with NC starters) shows that there are good NC wrestlers that want to wrestle in state. And whether or not they recruit in NC they seem to be doing okay (like you said even with a good number of D1 programs in the state) so I think my point is more that if they can do it then I think Clemson can too, and they wouldn't have to have a huge travel budget.

 

Sorry forgot about Citadel, just thought of Newberry since it's not too far from Clemson.

Edited by 1032004

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A lot of money.  At least 10-15 million per program to re-start or create.  That's on the low end too.  However if a few schools managed to do that say 4 or 5 other SEC schools besides Missouri did it and created their own conference, it would grow itself out.  I think it'd be great of Georgia, Florida, Texas A&M, and Arkansas all started programs.  Add them to Missouri and make sure they're all endowed and can't be dropped, then within 10 years the others would follow along. 

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There have been several threads on the NC wrestling board about the college teams and the fact that particularly in the past UNC and NC State especially wouldn't really recruit much in state. I think NC State has done some more recently, not sure about UNC but they both have a fair amount of NC walkons.

 

App State has done a bunch of recruiting in NC and had a pretty good year this year.

 

I think Clemson is the obvious choice as the best chance to add wrestling. It's actually about the same distance from Charlotte as most of the NC schools which is the biggest metro in the state. You also have D2 Newberry in SC which does pretty well in D2 I think.

The move to more in-state recruiting could be a result of the university system no longer allowing out of state athletes being charged the in-state tuition & fees. 

At least, back when UNC-Greensboro dropped wrestling that is one of the reasons their athletic department stated was a reason for dropping wrestling.  Of course, that really doesn't make sense why would you drop a program because of that (and wrestling specific) when the out of staters would just be paying more, you don't have to offer them scholarships (and given scholarship limits, you can't anyway). 

And what about their other sports? Odd, though that their other sports keep recruiting out of state:  half the basketball team is from out of state, 1/5 of the baseball team, 8 of 10 tennis players are out of staters, 2/3 of the soccer team is out of staters.  Then you have their women's teams:  11 of 13 basketball players, 5 of 8 golfers, 18 of 22 soccer players, 11 of 20 softball players, 6 of 9 tennis players and 12 of 14 volleyball players are all from out of state.  (Yes, I just went to their website & counted)

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The South doesn't care about anything other than college football. As quickly as SEC schools could start a program (they all have the money to do so), they could yank the rug out from under it on a whim. Honestly, if the NCAA would allow the SEC to drop everything but football, I think you'd see a handful of them actually do it.

 

The South doesn't care about anything other than college football. As quickly as SEC schools could start a program (they all have the money to do so), they could yank the rug out from under it on a whim. Honestly, if the NCAA would allow the SEC to drop everything but football, I think you'd see a handful of them actually do it.

 

WR, let me give you a southern perspective. The current top three college baseball teams are in the south. Two are SEC. Five of top ten are SEC. Ten of top 25, SEC.

 

The top 3 pro draft picks, 2015, SEC. 4 of first five picks, SEC.Even a late first round baseball draft pick can command a million dollar signing bonus. Baseball is huge in the south too. Kids know they can have a financial future through it.

Yes, we love our football. But we're not all c.o.c.k-eyed, beer-bellied, in a cocoon about only football.

 

Wrestling's got so very much to compete with in southern culture. Unfortunately, it just can't touch the fanfare, excitement, and potential earnings that football and baseball can offer. The best athletes here will follow that money and won't embrace wrestling, by and large, like they do these other sports.

 

We care about much, and we care about more than football.

 

excuse my typos...

Edited by JC

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Missouri was bad before Smith...

Actually Missouri has some very solid teams and Individuals during the latter part of Kopnisky's coaching tenure and early years of Roper's coaching tenure. However, things were pretty bad when Smith took over.

 

Smith has done a great job in building a consistent winning Program. I believe the admin support, facilities, and other factors are better now also than for previous Coaches.

 

Missouri has always produced good HS talent (Henson, Purlers, Schatzman, TJ Hill, Barker, Clemson, Cox, etc, etc.). The difference now is that Coach Smith can keep the best home talent (and) attract out-of-state talent also.

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1.) Title IX is the biggest hinderance to college wrestling, period. Without changes in the ways it is interpreted, we won't see any growth in Div I wrestling.

2. A lot of money would help, but the SEC athletic departments already have more than enough to start up wrestling programs.

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I stand corrected. Clearly what is to start college wrestling teams in the SEC is to have coaches of rural high school teams write laudatory wrestling articles for their local newspapers to print. 

 

I can see this tactic work in other subjects as well. Perhaps rural high school science and math teachers can write articles about high test scores of their female students to encourage them to being professional scientists. 

 

I also suspect that the elimination of rural poverty is right around the corner. 

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Other than money and a cool place to hold NCAAs, why would you want the SEC involved in wrestling? Their states are among the weakest in the nation in this sport and have little interest in wrestling.

 

I think the short answer is: SEC football money.

 

Revenue per member school in the SEC was $34M last year.  The average payout for all other Power 5 conference schools was $25M, which is significantly less.  Alabama alone has eclipsed the $1B revenue mark since Nick Saban won his first national title in 2009.  I know wrestling has to stand in line behind basketball, baseball, gymnastics, etc. but even a tiny sliver of that money could really help promote the sport in the south.

 

Also, some of you may have seen the news recently where a Boston Globe sports writer said UConn's dominance in womens basketball is hurting the sport, that it's no fun watching the same teams win every season.  The same could be said about D1 college wrestling, where there's a big separation between the relatively small handful of teams at the top every year and the rest of the pack.  

 

I actually dislike the SEC as a conference, but if it is a viable means for wrestling to grow then I'm all for it.

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I think the short answer is: SEC football money.

 

Revenue per member school in the SEC was $34M last year.  The average payout for all other Power 5 conference schools was $25M, which is significantly less.  Alabama alone has eclipsed the $1B revenue mark since Nick Saban won his first national title in 2009.  I know wrestling has to stand in line behind basketball, baseball, gymnastics, etc. but even a tiny sliver of that money could really help promote the sport in the south.

 

Also, some of you may have seen the news recently where a Boston Globe sports writer said UConn's dominance in womens basketball is hurting the sport, that it's no fun watching the same teams win every season.  The same could be said about D1 college wrestling, where there's a big separation between the relatively small handful of teams at the top every year and the rest of the pack.  

 

I actually dislike the SEC as a conference, but if it is a viable means for wrestling to grow then I'm all for it.

 

Right, but I asked about what else besides money would make the wrestling world want to embrace the conference.

 

There's no wrestling culture down there in the majority of the SEC school states. When a state universities such as Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, et al, look at potentially adding wrestling, they realize they're going to have to fill nearly their entire roster with kids from outside of their state. Who's going to go for that with a non-revenue sport like wrestling that has such weak support within its own state borders?

 

I agree about the dynasty teams. I'd love to see the NC States, Virginia Techs, Arizona States and other non-traditional power programs make runs for the crown.

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Sorry @Tofurky, I meant to say that SEC football money is probably the only good reason for expanding there.  

 

You are right about the dearth of local wrestling talent in the SEC region.  For football though, while there's considerable prep football talent down south the SEC schools tend to recruit nationally out of CA, FL, TX, OH, and GA (even if you're not UF, UGA, or A&M) and do as much, if not more outside-in development as they do from the inside-out.  Maybe the model could work for wrestling if there's money. I guess that's one way to build hype and a culture for wrestling.

 

About the dynasty programs, I've always been a little surprised that the talent has continued to concentrate even though there are fewer D1 programs. Intuitively, it seems that  spreading the best wrestlers among fewer D1 schools would result in a more level playing field, unlike women's college basketball where UConn gets the best players and the rest are spread (diluted) across a large number of programs.

 

It would be awesome to see some of the schools you mentioned win it all.

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I stand corrected. Clearly what is to start college wrestling teams in the SEC is to have coaches of rural high school teams write laudatory wrestling articles for their local newspapers to print. 

 

I can see this tactic work in other subjects as well. Perhaps rural high school science and math teachers can write articles about high test scores of their female students to encourage them to being professional scientists. 

 

I also suspect that the elimination of rural poverty is right around the corner.

Was this a reply to the wrong thread?

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