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Plasmodium

Last chance qualifier..

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i'm not knocking what valencia did at all... Hall is probably the hardest kid in the nation to score on... valencia knows this... he went out there and tried whatever he could, but, to think that is his normal style is not being fair... his kung fu is not as strong as hall's... he tried to shake it up... i can dig it

 

 

i am more impressed he didn't start slap fighting anyone at this tourney... 

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Nerd, see my post above. I think Hall's first two points were, by the rules rightly called.

 

4 points

- To the Greco-Roman wrestler performing a hold in a standing position, which brings his opponent into a danger position by direct projection over a short amplitude.

- To the Freestyle wrestler who brings his opponent into a danger position by direct projection and demonstrates control. Short amplitude is not required in Freestyle.

- For any hold executed by raising a wrestler from the ground, over a short amplitude, even if one or both of the attacking wrestler s knees are on the ground.

- To the Greco-Roman wrestler who executes a grand amplitude hold which does not place the opponent in a direct and immediate danger position.

NB. If, in performing a hold, the defending wrestler maintains contact with the mat with one of his hands, but is immediately placed in a danger position, the attacking wrestler will receive 4 points. 

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Nerd, see my post above. I think Hall's first two points were, by the rules rightly called.

 

Back exposure - lifting and throwing (4 points):

 

bNEBLLH.jpg

 

 

 

Video of the match:

(2:51 the back exposure)

 

 

 

 

 

Why isn't this back exposure 4 points?

 

DCxkFKn.jpg

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It's not clear there was control. Close call but when I watched it I thought not.

 

I've watched it again, very close call, maybe there was control, it was not like Valencia got up to his feet immediately after the throw, Hall was on his leg after that.

Edited by Axe_Spartan

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With Hall and Valencia, it wasn't immediate and resulted after some scrambling on the mat. Thus not immediate feet to back.

 

The video by Axe was immediate off a shot to lift to dump. It was magnificent.

 

This is my best explanation. And Quanon, those rules need to be interpreted for me. Seems like immediacy is important though.

 

I may be wrong and it should be 4, but this is what I've got.

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With Hall and Valencia, it wasn't immediate and resulted after some scrambling on the mat. Thus not immediate feet to back.

 

The video by Axe was immediate off a shot to lift to dump. It was magnificent.

 

This is my best explanation. And Quanon, those rules need to be interpreted for me. Seems like immediacy is important though.

 

I may be wrong and it should be 4, but this is what I've got.

 

Fair enough. I'll sign up to the notion that it could be two under some interpretations of the rule. Very close, though. I'd think most refs would score it 4 more often than not.

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If it's through the air into a danger position, it's 4.  Control is irrelevant. 

 

Valencia blocked himself from going to his back by putting his hands out -- so he was put in the danger position directly from the air.

 

That's what I saw -- looked like 4 to me.

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Whoops - just reread the rule book.  Posting on your hands can't put you in the danger position - you have to block with your elbow, shoulder or head.  My mistake!

 

It wasn't danger, and he put his hand to the mat in the air, so 2 points was the correct call.

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Shutting down does not make the equivalent of winning.  Hall might have taken him down anyway, shut down or no shut down.

 

Again, Hall won the match.  Hall is the better wrestler at the moment.

No need to reiterate that Hall won the match because I never said he didn't. If you look at my post the subject is not about winning the match. It is about the two athletes potential.

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No need to reiterate that Hall won the match because I never said he didn't. If you look at my post the subject is not about winning the match. It is about the two athletes potential.

I'm interested in why you think valencia has the greater potential. I feel the opposite.

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Anthony is like a wild untamed animal. He is much rawer than Hall, who is already exceptionally polished even as a HS senior.

 

Anthony to me has more obvious improvements to make than Hall, and at least that's why I feel he has more upside. Note that more upside doesn't necessarily mean he ends up at a higher level than Hall. This is a relative statement.

 

Admittedly, all this is wild ass speculation on my part, but if Anthony can sharpen his finishes and work on setups, he is going to be a serious force. He is much more volatile than Hall, who is much more consistent, and his results show his current stylistic immaturity. Some matches, he's tech falling senior talent like Tyler Caldwell, destroying kids at the junior worlds, and beating the crap out of Imart. Other matches, you wonder whether he's overhyped. His consistency will improve a lot in the next year, I'd imagine.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Whoops - just reread the rule book.  Posting on your hands can't put you in the danger position - you have to block with your elbow, shoulder or head.  My mistake!

 

It wasn't danger, and he put his hand to the mat in the air, so 2 points was the correct call.

lacks logic. i post my hands from par terre i'm exposed i give up 2. i'm on my feet, brought directly to danger while posted on my hands and it's still 2? i get that's the rule but it lacks logic.

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I think the two are around the same physically, which is not a surprise since they are about the same age.  They both have a ways to go, but I see Valencia as a more mature wrestler.  That flying squirrel wasn't improvised, it was an effective, well practiced shot.   On the other side, I'm sure even Hall would admit he took some awful shots in that match.  Hall has intangibles.  His defense can't be coached and he has an enormous amount of mental acuity.

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lacks logic. i post my hands from par terre i'm exposed i give up 2. i'm on my feet, brought directly to danger while posted on my hands and it's still 2? i get that's the rule but it lacks logic.

Yeah - I guess it's a holdover from the era where hand to hand exposure was worth 1 point?

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My money is on Hall but partially because it's my wish that he be the man in the future. Something about AV irks me. It's the way he presents himself. For example:

 

"Anthony taking an Olympic redshirt is not a surprising development. His twitter bio starts with “2016 Olympic champ at 74 kilos” and his coach at ASU is Zeke Jones, the former head coach for the USA Wrestling men’s freestyle team."

 

AV going ballistic vs Perry apparently for no other reason than Perry won. 

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My money is on Hall but partially because it's my wish that he be the man in the future. Something about AV irks me. It's the way he presents himself. For example:

 

"Anthony taking an Olympic redshirt is not a surprising development. His twitter bio starts with “2016 Olympic champ at 74 kilos” and his coach at ASU is Zeke Jones, the former head coach for the USA Wrestling men’s freestyle team."

 

AV going ballistic vs Perry apparently for no other reason than Perry won. 

I don't mind the Olympic champ thing, but the reaction to Perry beating him was childish. Granted, he is young, but he needs to not do that. It is embarrassing. 

 

i hope he is an AA next year. I don't hate the guy, but he needs to get his temper under control.

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