Jump to content
MSU158

Way too early roster and NCAA Tournament predictions

Recommended Posts

Pish,

 

Here is the difference, I would be happy to see Iowa win. I simply believe PSU will do so. There is too much recent data to think otherwise. I don't pick who I want to win, I pick who I think will win. I guess that comes from nearly 15 years of watching your former squad get worse and worse.....

If that's what you believe there is nothing wrong with that BUT then you should revisit your projections and give some more points to the weights that you feel PSU will over perform.

 

But to show projections of 104 for Iowa and 98 for PSU that makes no sense for you to pick PSU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem like a pretty bright guy so I can't believe you don't see your contradiction.

 

In simpler terms.

 

If I say Trout will have a .350 batting average for the year and Cabrera will end up with a .320 average for the year. But I'm picking Cabrera to win the batting title?

 

Do you see how I contradicted myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed.  It is not automatic that Hall will redshirt.  Mark is already in the Nittany Lion Family, and Cael and Cody and

the staff, will meet with Mark, and a decision will be made probably some time in December.

 

I think he'll RS.  Keep in mind that the plan was to RS Retherford during his true frosh season... until they realized how good he was & they ended up needing a body to cover the weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he'll RS.  Keep in mind that the plan was to RS Retherford during his true frosh season... until they realized how good he was & they ended up needing a body to cover the weight.

No, that was not the plan.  There was no pre-conceived plan to redshirt Zain.  That decision was not made until Zain got in the room and began wrestling.  Cael has not made a comment on Hall, i.e. redshirting, and neither has Mark.

 

As of today, no decision has been made, and no pre-plan is in place.  He might not redshirt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, that was not the plan. There was no pre-conceived plan to redshirt Zain. That decision was not made until Zain got in the room and began wrestling. Cael has not made a comment on Hall, i.e. redshirting, and neither has Mark.

 

As of today, no decision has been made, and no pre-plan is in place. He might not redshirt.

Wrong. The plan was for Beitz to be at 141 and A Alton to cover 149, with Zain taking a RS.

 

That was until they saw how easily ZR beat Beitz. Combine that with the tenuous situation at 149... A. Alton needed the early season to recover from off-season surgery and James English struggled w injuries.

 

Net result = pull Zain's shirt and move Beitz up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chiscko said at the conclusion of his true freshmen year he wanted to go 149 but cut to 141 for the team. McFadden will probably slot at 157. I don't see mastriani starting next year unless chiscko cuts again

 

I have heard that its not a guaranteed that Solomon goes to 149 next year....and that he feels that he can manage his weight better than this year.  I would be surprised but just passing on what I have heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chiscko said at the conclusion of his true freshmen year he wanted to go 149 but cut to 141 for the team. McFadden will probably slot at 157. I don't see mastriani starting next year unless chiscko cuts again

 

McFadden is about 170 right after eating freely the past few weeks and getting ready for knee surgery (which happened a few days ago).  Getting to 157 should not be a problem next year.  

 

I did think Solomon had a few matches this year where he seemed to have energy issues...probably from weight management.  I would be good with him going to 149 and then having Moore/Degen battle it out for 141.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that's what you believe there is nothing wrong with that BUT then you should revisit your projections and give some more points to the weights that you feel PSU will over perform.

 

But to show projections of 104 for Iowa and 98 for PSU that makes no sense for you to pick PSU

It actually makes PERFECT sense.  Numbers aren't everything.  To me this relates best to the New England Patriots.  I am a huge NFL fan by the way.  Every year I look at the Patriots at the beginning of the season and simply don't see how they will win it all or be right in the hunt.  Yet, time and time again they do so.  They get nearly every new guy to buy into their system and many over perform.  The same now holds true for me with PSU.  It is actually a sign of significant respect.  Individually, I am not sure who it will be.  But, as a team, I am much more confident that they will exceed their number.  

 

In simple math terms, I have Retherford, Nolf and Nickal scoring 70.5 of the 98 pts.  I don't see any way(other than injury) that score drops.  So, that leaves 7 guys scoring 27.5.  Of those 7, I just don't have any data to pick any one INDIVIDUAL ahead of where I put them.  I am not going to just wild guess whom it will be but, I know that PSU has too good of a recent track record for 7 guys to average less than 4pts.  Basically 98 is the very low end of what they will score because the unknowns will inevitably become "well knowns".  Iowa's score is much nearer it's high end total because of very few unknowns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres how I think Mizzou will shake out (althought I have no idea who will be in at 174 or 285)

 

125: Barlow McGhee (R12 2016)

133: Jaydin Clayton (Undefeated HS career, beat Kaid Brock when both were SRs, RS this past season)

141: Matt Manley (Ranked top 10 for most of the season, faltered due to injury at NCAAs),

149: Lavion Mayes (3rd 2016)

157: Joey Lavallee (Former R12 or R16 I believe, RS this past season)

165: Daniel Lewis (4th 2016)

174: ??

184: Willie Miklus (6th 2016)

197: J'den Cox (1st 2016)

285: ??

 

174 will be Dylan Wisman and 285 will, hopefully, be a transfer of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Contender: Iowa-I like who they return a lot and it looks like they will fill every weight buy 197 with significant improvement from last season.

 

125-Gilman-If rumors of Tomasello having issues with 125 are true, it's very hard to pick anyone over him.  1st-26.5pts

 

133-Clark-The way 133 clears out, I think this weight is Clark's.  The only guy I am afraid of is Brock.  If he can rebound from the injury with no confidence issues, he could do some serious damage.  1st-24.5pts

 

 

MSU-How do you see Clark and NATO going? Either Gilman has to beat NATO or 133 isn't cleared out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MSU-How do you see Clark and NATO going? Either Gilman has to beat NATO or 133 isn't cleared out. 

I didn't say Tomasello was leaving.  I just said that I don't see him beating Gilman if weight is any sort of issue.  I also see Clark's length giving Tomasello fits if he ends up at 133.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It actually makes PERFECT sense.  Numbers aren't everything.  To me this relates best to the New England Patriots.  I am a huge NFL fan by the way.  Every year I look at the Patriots at the beginning of the season and simply don't see how they will win it all or be right in the hunt.  Yet, time and time again they do so.  They get nearly every new guy to buy into their system and many over perform.  The same now holds true for me with PSU.  It is actually a sign of significant respect.  Individually, I am not sure who it will be.  But, as a team, I am much more confident that they will exceed their number.  

 

In simple math terms, I have Retherford, Nolf and Nickal scoring 70.5 of the 98 pts.  I don't see any way(other than injury) that score drops.  So, that leaves 7 guys scoring 27.5.  Of those 7, I just don't have any data to pick any one INDIVIDUAL ahead of where I put them.  I am not going to just wild guess whom it will be but, I know that PSU has too good of a recent track record for 7 guys to average less than 4pts.  Basically 98 is the very low end of what they will score because the unknowns will inevitably become "well knowns".  Iowa's score is much nearer it's high end total because of very few unknowns.

 

Maybe you need to add a wildcard category to your predictions that accounts for over performance (or under performance for some teams) so that PSU's point total will be the highest and maybe the PSU fans will leave you alone. You'd think that admitting PSU finds a way to consistently out perform expectations (even when they are expected to win) would be a compliment to their program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add Michigan not sure the scoring and my places might be a little high and biased but that's why they're mine and not yours

125 Youtsey/Micic/Assad could possibly place top 4 or better

133 Proface/Micic if it's Micic I believe he could at best do 5th worst 8th

141 Zac Hall R12 or 7/8 could do better but not likely 

149 Alec Pantaleo 3rd through 5th

157 Brian Murphy 5th through 8th maybe better he keeps almost every match close enough to win

165 Logan Massa 1st through 3rd after watching him wrestle Derringer I believe he will have what it takes to win it all

174 Mahomes/Massa really hopping Taylor can make it into the lineup with his brother if so I believe he can place top 5. If it's Mahomes depending on how he returns from injury he could be R12 or 5th through 7th

184 Dom Abounader when he's on he has what it take to get 2nd at best but he could easily R12 as well

197 Jackson Striggow / Payne Hayden both capable of R12 but also 2 and out

285 Adam Coon He gets the job done and takes 1st place  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tOSU: I like Ryan. The guy just looks, sounds and acts like a DI coach should. He is at the 2nd best DI School for regional recruiting and has shown that he knows how to recruit that area exceptionally well.

 

125:Tomasello-I am keeping him here for now, until I see something concrete. Gilman just seems to have his number, but it isn't a Dake-Taylor number. He can win, I just don't see it in St. Louis. 2nd-22.5pts

 

133:Pletcher/Rodriguez-So many true freshman possibilities. So hard to predict. 1-2. 1pt

 

141:Hayes-He is supposed to be really good. Still, 141 is LOADED. 2-2-1.5pts

 

149: M. Jordan-I expect him to shine up a weight. 6th -9.5pts

 

157: Ryan-Hard worker, but limited offensively. 2-2. 2.5pts

 

165:White-I just don't see him ready to go, but I picked their best option by far. 2-2. 2pts

 

174:BoJo-Although he may be more healthy and active I still see the same result. 3rd-16pts

 

184:Martin-This would be the year to redshirt, but I don't think he will. 184 is deep. 6th-13.5pts

 

197:Moore-He is solid but 1 win is his max. 1-2. .5pts

 

285:Snyder-With Gwiz gone, it is simply a matter of how many tech falls he has going into the Finals. 1st-26.5

 

OSU-95.5pts

. Edited by Aviator12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize/remember Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, right? Taylor couldn't beat Dake, period. That IMO is having someone's number, and Dake was never in danger of losing to Taylor in their collegiant contests.

 

I would consider these two a coin flip, both with their college match history and by the observing eye, not even close to Gilman having Tomasello's number.

 

That argument for me is squashed righ out of the gate considering Tomasello beat Gilman in the EXACT NCAA tournament semifinal match their previous matchup.

 

But even further, Gilman beat Tomasello 2-1 in last year's Big Ten tourney 2-1 on a ride out. Then Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, and Gilman won this year's.

 

This year, Tomasello was deep on Gilman's leg (had it semi shelfed actually) and was within seconds of the winning takedown. Gilman obviously won fair n square, my point though is he has never nor will be never controlled in a match by Gilman to be considered a lock to lose, a la someone have his #.

 

If anything, I would say/bet on Tomasello having Gilman's number next time around versus the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize/remember Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, right? Taylor couldn't beat Dake, period. That IMO is having someone's number, and Dake was never in danger of losing to Taylor in their collegiant contests.

 

I would consider these two a coin flip, both with their college match history and by the observing eye, not even close to Gilman having Tomasello's number.

 

That argument for me is squashed righ out of the gate considering Tomasello beat Gilman in the EXACT NCAA tournament semifinal match their previous matchup.

 

But even further, Gilman beat Tomasello 2-1 in last year's Big Ten tourney 2-1 on a ride out. Then Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, and Gilman won this year's.

 

This year, Tomasello was deep on Gilman's leg (had it semi shelfed actually) and was within seconds of the winning takedown. Gilman obviously won fair n square, my point though is he has never nor will be never controlled in a match by Gilman to be considered a lock to lose, a la someone have his #.

 

If anything, I would say/bet on Tomasello having Gilman's number next time around versus the opposite.

Won't be a next time around.  Tomassello is at 133 this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were Tom Ryan, here's what I'd do with NATO to keep him at 125:

 

* Start the Reece Humphrey / Alex Picazo "Ultimate Ninja Warrior" training, replacing his current "let me deadlift, bench, and shrug my way to looking like a miniature incredible hulk" training plan

 

Why?  Slight decrease in "muscle mass", replaced with a gigantic dose of isometric and plyometric training exercises that develop muscle groups used in gymnastics, UNW, etc.  

 

Slight decrease in muscle mass yields an easier weight management plan, and in turn, doesn't actually decrease strength.  Will he still be able to deadlift a volkswagen?  Maybe not... but... would his grip strength and overall body "strength" increase?  Yes.  

 

This new strength conditioning program allows NATO to stay at 125, and subsequently allows Pletcher/JROD to take 133, thus maximizing lineup output.  

 

IMHO opinion, both Pletcher and JROD are both unproven until proven otherwise, and if either have a cut at all, it could be worse for the team to have them at 125 than keeping an absolute hammer at 125.  

 

2nd reason... 57kg Freestyle.  NATO slots well here now, and in the future.  NATO at 65kg in the future feels way to big for his stature, plus, he'd have to contend with the lineup that is there right now, including Stieber, who is his trainer/mentor/coach.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't be a next time around. Tomassello is at 133 this year.

My God will you please stop typing what you hope/predict as fact on literally e try wrestling board known to man.!??

 

If Tomasello goes 133... It WILL NOT BE NEXT YEAR. Please, digest that, and help yourself move on.

 

The OSU team members epitomize what you look for in a team first mentality, still holds true for the top guys who even have a legitametely better shot at a national title at a different weight, but still sacrifice for the betterment of the team.

 

Nate may represent this group the most. He's a captain and he will without hesitation nor reservation do what's best for the team first, and wrestle where he gives OSU the best shot to score the most team points. Period.

 

You act like there's just no physical way possible NATO will make 125 next year, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Would he be more comfortable at 133? Probably. But comfortable doesn't score points.

 

OSU has tangible options next season at 133... They have absolutely none at 125... ZERO. Your fooling yourself if you think as a captain and team leader, Tomasello will just simply bump up next season because he feels like it and will sacrifice the strength of the lineup in the process?

 

Especially after seeing what fellow team captain BoJo sacraficed this year, along with Myles pulling his shirt to make a run. If there were any options at 125 then you'd have a theory. But since there isn't, you don't even have that.

 

Let it go,Tomasello will be 125 next year. Bank it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize/remember Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, right? Taylor couldn't beat Dake, period. That IMO is having someone's number, and Dake was never in danger of losing to Taylor in their collegiant contests.

 

I would consider these two a coin flip, both with their college match history and by the observing eye, not even close to Gilman having Tomasello's number.

 

That argument for me is squashed righ out of the gate considering Tomasello beat Gilman in the EXACT NCAA tournament semifinal match their previous matchup.

 

But even further, Gilman beat Tomasello 2-1 in last year's Big Ten tourney 2-1 on a ride out. Then Tomasello beat Gilman in last year's semi's, and Gilman won this year's.

 

This year, Tomasello was deep on Gilman's leg (had it semi shelfed actually) and was within seconds of the winning takedown. Gilman obviously won fair n square, my point though is he has never nor will be never controlled in a match by Gilman to be considered a lock to lose, a la someone have his #.

 

If anything, I would say/bet on Tomasello having Gilman's number next time around versus the opposite.

I think that there's a lot of wrong information in this post. Gilman is 2-1 against Tomasello while in college. They never met in last year's NCAA's, Gilman lost to Moisey in the semis. Tomasello beat Gilman last year in the Big Ten final and lost to him in the dual. In addition, not sure how many matches they've wrestled outside of college or what style (at least 3 freestyle) but Gilman had been undefeated against Tomasello until the big ten final. So, in at least 6 matches against the two, Tomasello has won once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×