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Rank your TOP 10 individuals for the upcoming season

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With weight changes I really found this alot harder than I anticipated. If Ruth stays at 174 and Howe at 165 they would be my locks for 1 and 2. But it looks like Ruth is guaranteed to go 184 and Howe is strongly rumored to go 174. They still will most likely win championships but I don't see them dominating the weight classes like they would down a class, and YES I think Howe is TOO much for Taylor physically. Some of the weight moves made me move up guys like Stieber over Oliver just because I think Stieber is better at 133 than Oliver would be at 141 and Taylor at 165 is better than Howe at 174. Dake staying at 157 leapfrogs Ruth and Howe because of the moves as well. Much tougher than originally thought it was gonna be.

 

Well here goes.....

 

1.) Dake

2.) Taylor

3.) Ruth

4.) Howe

5.) Kilgore

6.) Stieber

7.) Oliver

8.) McDonough

9.) Nelson

10.) Caldwell

 

 

Very interested to see how this matches up with everyone else.

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With weight changes I really found this alot harder than I anticipated. If Ruth stays at 174 and Howe at 165 they would be my locks for 1 and 2. But it looks like Ruth is guaranteed to go 184 and Howe is strongly rumored to go 174. They still will most likely win championships but I don't see them dominating the weight classes like they would down a class, and YES I think Howe is TOO much for Taylor physically. Some of the weight moves made me move up guys like Stieber over Oliver just because I think Stieber is better at 133 than Oliver would be at 141 and Taylor at 165 is better than Howe at 174. Dake staying at 157 leapfrogs Ruth and Howe because of the moves as well. Much tougher than originally thought it was gonna be.

 

Well here goes.....

 

1.) Dake

2.) Taylor

3.) Ruth

4.) Howe

5.) Kilgore

6.) Stieber

7.) Oliver

8.) McDonough

9.) Nelson

10.) Caldwell

 

 

Very interested to see how this matches up with everyone else.

Probably would agree witht aht group except I would trade out Caldwell for Wright.

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1. Ruth

1. Dake

3. Howe

4. Taylor

4. Stieber

4. Oliver

7. McDonough

8. Kilgore

9. Nelson

10. St. John

 

No love for Q and Bosak, I guess.

 

I like both Q and Bosak quite a bit. They are both rumored to go up to 197 and I don't see either of them being nearly as effective there. If they both stayed at 184 I would put them both around 10a and 10b for me.

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When I opened this thread, I thought there would be more love for Taylor. I'm surprised pror don't have him higher, but I think most have it right. He is no better than 4th. Which is very good, but remember he was the Hodge winner. But he dominated an extremely weak class, and has not had any signature wins over other top competitors.

 

1. Dake

2. Ruth

3. Howe

4. Steiber

5. Taylor

6. McDonough

7. Oliver

8. Kilgore

9. Wright

10. Caldwell

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Everyone is putting mostly the same names out there and that's probably right. It is interesting to see how Taylor's stock has dropped since the Olympic Trials. He had one of the most dominating seasons in college wrestling history last year. It'll be interesting to see how things change if he has a different set of names at his weight - Dake, Caldwell, Howe, etc. Still....I can't help but think that if he didn't compete at the Olympic Trials - he'd be #1 on almost every list.

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Everyone is putting mostly the same names out there and that's probably right. It is interesting to see how Taylor's stock has dropped since the Olympic Trials. He had one of the most dominating seasons in college wrestling history last year. It'll be interesting to see how things change if he has a different set of names at his weight - Dake, Caldwell, Howe, etc. Still....I can't help but think that if he didn't compete at the Olympic Trials - he'd be #1 on almost every list.

 

 

Almost a consensus on top 7-8. It will be interesting to see if any of that changes this year due to upsets etc.

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you all know Kilgore is going to come in and destroy everyone similar to the way Herbert came back and did right?? He should be top 3 on everyones list.

 

I have Kilgore at #5 and I agree he should dominate his weight class. But who out of Dake, Taylor, Ruth and Howe could I put him in front of? Dake has won 3 championships and is coming off of an undefeated championship season. Taylor is coming off of a Monster dominant undefeated season. Ruth dittos Taylor. And Howe 100% healthy at 165 could be better than the 3 I just listed.

 

We are going to be spoiled this year with a group of guys that legitimately could crack the TOP 50 all time. This upcoming season is going to be fun to watch.

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1. Dake-Cornell-157(Sr)-Going for 4 without redshirt. He's trying to do something noone has ever done before. That deserves #1 to me.

2. Howe-Oklahoma-174(Sr)- Seems to have progressed light years in Olympic red shirt year. In OTTs, his offensive explosion was impressive. The only thing that puts him behind Dake is weight change, injury, and career achievements.

3. Taylor-Penn St-165(Jr)- Still think he will dominate anyone but top 2 (including Caldwell). I think matches up better with Dake and Howe in folkstyle but hard to overlook those freestyle matches.

4. Stieber-Ohio State-133(So)- He seems to have progressed even since his national title this year. He has tons of upside even at #4.

5. Ruth-Penn St-184(Jr)- May struggle slightly to dominate at 184, but by years end could end up bumping out one of my top 4. Guy makes it look easy.

6. Oliver-Okla St-141(Sr)- Even with loss at nationals and moving up a weight, I still have hard time putting him this low. For me last year, he may have even been my number one pound-for-pound heading into NCAAs. Like Taylor, losses of late linger.

7. Kilgore-Kent State-197(Sr)- Like Howe, seemed to progress significantly in Olympic red shirt year. Could be scary good this year.

8. McDonough-Iowa-125(Sr)- Going for 4th finals and 3rd title in row. Has been fairly dominant most of career in very competitive weight.

 

Like many others have said, I think top 8 are clear cut top 8. 9-10 are pick em in my opinion.

 

9. Wright-Penn St-197(Sr)- I think he can beat anyone in any given day. He has shown tremendous inconsistency, but his flare puts him in top 10 for me.

10. Ramos-Iowa-133(Jr)- Surprised not to see his name yet on anyones list. I suppose he doesn't have a title or even a finals appearance. I guess I just like this guy and enjoy his style more than any of the other alternatives for #10. He does have a win over Oliver and I believe is the only person this year with a chance against Stieber.

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Average rank of Mcdonough right now is 6.4. He might be the most underrated guy right now. He has the exact same career record as most peoples number 1 Kyle Dake (100-4). I don't understand why people are down on him, or at least so much higher on everyone else.

 

Mcdonough's only losses at the olympic trials were to the last 2 world team members (Blanc and Simmons) so its not like he had a bad tournament there. Noone on this list beat a world team member at the OTTs that I can remember.

 

Stieber is good but he is better at freestyle and always has been. Seems like he is being a little overrated going from not being favored to win NCAAs last year to a top 4 p4p guy.

 

Oliver didn't even win a title last year and is moving up at least 1 weight class so I don't see how he is such a definitively better choice.

 

The general trend of the rankings seems a little off to me and Mcdonough's dominance is being overlooked IMO

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Average rank of Mcdonough right now is 6.4. He might be the most underrated guy right now. He has the exact same career record as most peoples number 1 Kyle Dake (100-4). I don't understand why people are down on him, or at least so much higher on everyone else.

 

Mcdonough's only losses at the olympic trials were to the last 2 world team members (Blanc and Simmons) so its not like he had a bad tournament there. Noone on this list beat a world team member at the OTTs that I can remember.

 

Stieber is good but he is better at freestyle and always has been. Seems like he is being a little overrated going from not being favored to win NCAAs last year to a top 4 p4p guy.

 

Oliver didn't even win a title last year and is moving up at least 1 weight class so I don't see how he is such a definitively better choice.

 

The general trend of the rankings seems a little off to me and Mcdonough's dominance is being overlooked IMO

I like McDonough a ton. His hard work and determination are second to none. I do, however, think he has benefited from being the biggest guy at the smallest weight class. When he ran into the only bigger guy, Robles, he lost. Being 8th on my list, with who is in front of him, isn't a slam so much as the fact there are 7 exceptionally good guys wrestling this upcoming season. If he can run out 125 undefeated this year, I think he could move up a few spots. I also really want to see how Delgado progresses from last year thru this upcoming season. Three time champ and 4 time finalist would put him in rarified air.

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Average rank of Mcdonough right now is 6.4. He might be the most underrated guy right now. He has the exact same career record as most peoples number 1 Kyle Dake (100-4). I don't understand why people are down on him, or at least so much higher on everyone else.

 

Mcdonough's only losses at the olympic trials were to the last 2 world team members (Blanc and Simmons) so its not like he had a bad tournament there. Noone on this list beat a world team member at the OTTs that I can remember.

 

Stieber is good but he is better at freestyle and always has been. Seems like he is being a little overrated going from not being favored to win NCAAs last year to a top 4 p4p guy.

 

Oliver didn't even win a title last year and is moving up at least 1 weight class so I don't see how he is such a definitively better choice.

 

The general trend of the rankings seems a little off to me and Mcdonough's dominance is being overlooked IMO

I like McDonough a ton. His hard work and determination are second to none. I do, however, think he has benefited from being the biggest guy at the smallest weight class. When he ran into the only bigger guy, Robles, he lost. Being 8th on my list, with who is in front of him, isn't a slam so much as the fact there are 7 exceptionally good guys wrestling this upcoming season. If he can run out 125 undefeated this year, I think he could move up a few spots. I also really want to see how Delgado progresses from last year thru this upcoming season. Three time champ and 4 time finalist would put him in rarified air.

 

You have Oliver above Mcdonough. Hasn't he benefitted from being the biggest guy in his weight? So has Dake at both 141 and 149 he was huge. Ruth was also arguably the biggest guy at his weight last year. Why do these guys get a pass and Mcdonough doesn't? Just because 125 is the smallest weight class doesn't mean its the only weight where size matters.

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Average rank of Mcdonough right now is 6.4. He might be the most underrated guy right now. He has the exact same career record as most peoples number 1 Kyle Dake (100-4). I don't understand why people are down on him, or at least so much higher on everyone else.

 

Mcdonough's only losses at the olympic trials were to the last 2 world team members (Blanc and Simmons) so its not like he had a bad tournament there. Noone on this list beat a world team member at the OTTs that I can remember.

 

Stieber is good but he is better at freestyle and always has been. Seems like he is being a little overrated going from not being favored to win NCAAs last year to a top 4 p4p guy.

 

Oliver didn't even win a title last year and is moving up at least 1 weight class so I don't see how he is such a definitively better choice.

 

The general trend of the rankings seems a little off to me and Mcdonough's dominance is being overlooked IMO

 

In most years, he'd be higher up the p4p rankings. It's tough to rank a guy with his stats so low. Really tough. He's a stud.

 

If it were a career-accomplishment ranking, he'd be higher up the ladder. But it's not. In coming up with p4p rankings, people are ranking his present level of skill against others' present level of skill.

 

I can't speak for others, but I here's my reasoning:

 


    [*:1qf48264]Dake- More titles and dominant showing at the OTTs.
    [*:1qf48264]Ruth- More dominant.
    [*:1qf48264]Howe- Wrestling the world champ tough suggests to me that he's at a different level than McDonough.
    [*:1qf48264]Taylor- More dominant.
    [*:1qf48264]Steiber- His freestyle results this summer suggest to me he's at a different level than McDonough. He also won a junior world silver medal in the past.
    [*:1qf48264]Oliver- Freestyle results are the biggest thing. He also wrestled Metcalf tough at the OTTS despite not being a full-sized 145 pounder, and he has that junior world bronze medal.

This is all speculation, of course. But, nevertheless, it's how I see it.

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Average rank of Mcdonough right now is 6.4. He might be the most underrated guy right now. He has the exact same career record as most peoples number 1 Kyle Dake (100-4). I don't understand why people are down on him, or at least so much higher on everyone else.

 

Mcdonough's only losses at the olympic trials were to the last 2 world team members (Blanc and Simmons) so its not like he had a bad tournament there. Noone on this list beat a world team member at the OTTs that I can remember.

 

Stieber is good but he is better at freestyle and always has been. Seems like he is being a little overrated going from not being favored to win NCAAs last year to a top 4 p4p guy.

 

Oliver didn't even win a title last year and is moving up at least 1 weight class so I don't see how he is such a definitively better choice.

 

The general trend of the rankings seems a little off to me and Mcdonough's dominance is being overlooked IMO

 

In most years, he'd be higher up the p4p rankings. It's tough to rank a guy with his stats so low. Really tough. He's a stud.

 

If it were a career-accomplishment ranking, he'd be higher up the ladder. But it's not. In coming up with p4p rankings, people are ranking his present level of skill against others' present level of skill.

 

I can't speak for others, but I here's my reasoning:

 


    [*:2o4yynly]Dake- More titles and dominant showing at the OTTs.
    [*:2o4yynly]Ruth- More dominant.
    [*:2o4yynly]Howe- Wrestling the world champ tough suggests to me that he's at a different level than McDonough.
    [*:2o4yynly]Taylor- More dominant.
    [*:2o4yynly]Steiber- His freestyle results this summer suggest to me he's at a different level than McDonough. He also won a junior world silver medal in the past.
    [*:2o4yynly]Oliver- Freestyle results are the biggest thing. He also wrestled Metcalf tough at the OTTS despite not being a full-sized 145 pounder, and he has that junior world bronze medal.

This is all speculation, of course. But, nevertheless, it's how I see it.

If you are going to use freestyle as a reason for ranking dake, howe, steiber, and oliver, than shouldn't Mcdonough be ranked higher than ruth and taylor? Your reasons for ranking these people above mcd are pretty inconsistant. Dake has more titles with 3 yes, but mcd has 2 titles and a runner up finish. Not much difference really. Howe did have a better showing in freestyle but he just had an entire season to work on freestyle while mcd was focusing on folk. Taylor was more dominant over a weaker field. Steiber has always been a great freestyle wrestler, but that doesn''t mean he's a better college wrestler. Oliver has less titles even though you used more titles as a criteria for dake to be ranked over Mcdonough. If you want to use mcdonoughs size as a reason to not be ranked as high and ignore dakes, olivers, and ruths size that shows quite a bit of bias. Yes, Mcdonough lost when he had another big guy(Robles), but if you can't see that there are some very unusual circumstances that come with Robles than you are blind

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^^^^

 

Again, this isn't a career achievement ranking, as far as I know. It's a ranking of people based on the level of wrestling they've achieved.

 

And like I said, it's just speculation. But I legitimately don't think McDonough is at the level of Dake, Ruth, Howe, Taylor, Stieber, or Oliver.

 

Feel free to disagree, but it won't change my opinion. If McDonough turned in a dominant performance this season, it would -- of course -- cause me to change my mind. Turning in significant freestyle results next spring/summer would also cause me to change my mind.

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MM has great individual accomplishments with the 2 titles and 3 finals appearances in 3 years. However, he has failed to dominate at a consistent level as Dake, Taylor, Ruth, Steiber have. He is consistently in tight matches where you can argue he was in a position to lose. He is more consistently unimpressive, and less dominant in matches than the others mentioned. He has career accomplishments yes, but he is far from dominant. And dont give me the tight scores that Dake has had. Even in tight scored matches, he never seems to be out of controll, and you never get the feeling he didnt just dominate the guy. Taylor has spent 2 straight years just absolutely embarrassing people. I dont want to hear the level of competition excuse, this is D1 wrestling, everyone is tough. The past 2 years werent the first time a weight was a little weaker than others, but NO ONE has ever dominated those weights like DT has. In Folk, he is the best wrestler in the country, PERIOD. He isnt strong enough for freestyle. You think Howe would have gotten those simple spin arounds in folk? NO. That double underhook that "pancaked" Taylor to his back from Dake? Yeah Taylor rolled through and ended up on top of Dake. 2 for Taylor in folk, not 3 for Dake like it was in Freestyle. The pin in freestyle by Dake, is just a simple 2 td for Dake in folk. Not to mention Taylor most likely would have finished the shot a tad different, and not get knee tapped to his back. Taylor is a few years in the weight room, and a full year of training straight freestyle away from being a serious international contender. Best pure technician since Cael.

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