Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wolverine7

Stalling: Does it exist in college wrestling anymore?

Recommended Posts

I hate riding time and I hate how if affects how stalling is called. Maybe it is just the officials I have seen, but I am beginning to question if the man on top can be called for stalling at all in college anymore.

 

Also the situational stalling calls are ridiculous. If you are up by more than four, your opponent gets called for stalling like crazy. If you are up by one, you better be moving forward and shooting like a mother or you will be called.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stalling doesnt get called nearly enough. But, I think the pushout rule in folkstyle would ruin the sport. I can imagine a number of wrestlers just pushing people out of bounds for a point and the matches would be brutal to watch. Might as well make it sumo then.

 

The answer is to just call the damn stall calls consistently and the officials need to grow a pair and call it more often when stalling is and should be warranted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out VA. Duals to see some real horse whippings in favor of VA. D1 teams. I'm a fan of some of the kids who won, due to the officiating, but in a couple of cases it was downright embarrassing. This is a great event and a lot of fun to watch due to the various levels of competition. It is too bad when "home cookin" taints the enjoyment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speaking of situational calls, I hate the ref who hasn't called (obvious) stalling all match, but then in last 30 seconds decides to call it....heck at least be consistent

There are more stalling calls in the third period than the first for good reasons:

 

1. When the match starts it is 0-0, no one has a lead to protect and therefore there is less incentive to stall.

 

2. No one is out of gas in the first period; the same is not true for the third.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speaking of situational calls, I hate the ref who hasn't called (obvious) stalling all match, but then in last 30 seconds decides to call it....heck at least be consistent

There are more stalling calls in the third period than the first for good reasons:

 

1. When the match starts it is 0-0, no one has a lead to protect and therefore there is less incentive to stall.

 

2. No one is out of gas in the first period; the same is not true for the third.

 

I'm not talking incentive to stall, I'm talking refs letting stalling go all match and suddenly deciding to call it at end of match...if I'm wrestling and it's been ok for me to play the edge all match (while not good), don't change the rules (or your interpretation of) at the end.

 

1. and really do you think no one has an incentive to stall when it's 0-0? heck, some guys are stalling when they walk off the bus....call it!

2. you don't have to be out of gas to stall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The definition of stalling has nothing to do with the score or the period. If someone is backing for the first 30 seconds of a 0-0 match, he is stalling. A good official should call stalling the same regardless of the score or situation

thank you for your more succinct post of what I was trying to imply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so sick of these 3-2 matches. I understand wrestling at a high level, and everyone has to be able to pull off a 3-2 win at some point in their career, stuff happens, but it's so common now. Most American wrestling fans say they prefer folk style to freestyle for the excitement, that is a ridiculous statement given the amount of 3-2 or riding time tie breaker matches going on. Hell, just the term riding time infers stalling, in the definition of stalling riding is stalling, it means just hanging on, riding, not attempting to turn.

 

I dot want to make this another Dake/Taylor thread, but this point is why I am more of a Taylor fan. I like Dake, I was around him at the Olympic trials and loved the way he interacted with younger fans, have a TON of respect for him, and even more respect for the fact that he goes up a weight every year as opposed to sucking 30 pounds, that is great for the sport. However, Taylor's style of wrestling is what the sport needs more of.

 

When you look at the greatest American wrestlers of all time, they all have one thing in common, they score points! Cael, Smith, Burroughs, they are offensive machines that GET AFTER IT! People bash the ball grab in freestyle, but even if they had it back in the day, can you imagine a single John Smith period coming down to a ball grab? Not likely. The reason Burroughs is having the kind of success few if any freestyles have had in the last 20 years is his offense.

 

How many 3-2 matches does Taylor have? I bet your average dual meet has more low scoring, boring matches then Taylor will have in his career. I loved the thread where Randy Lewis talked about how few low scoring matches he had in his day, and that is what we need more of for the sport to grow in popularity.

 

Now, I know the sport has changed since Lewis's day, technique is evolved, defense is more solid, counter wrestler is better, more high level coaching from a young age on all around the country, but still. As a fan, I want to see more of these fearless get after it types and fewer 3-2 matches.

 

Ok, rant over. I know my thoughts were a little scattered and all over the place there, but hopefully that made some sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dot want to make this another Dake/Taylor thread

Oops...

...but this point is why I am more of a Taylor fan....Taylor's style of wrestling is what the sport needs more of.

But how boring really are Dake's matches?

 

2011 NCAAs for Dake:

9-0

8-0

3-0

4-0

8-1

 

2012 NCAAs for Dake:

Fall

Fall

Fall

4-0

4-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the flip side,...I hate teams that are coached to push their oponant to the edge, while their entire crowd puts their collective fists in the air to yell ...'stalling, that's stalling!' and the official hired,.... being just as knowlegable as the home crowd, quickly awards the stalling point to the home team wrestler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How often does stalling on the feet NOT involve backing up towards the edge or playing the edge in some fashion? Not often. This is why having a penalty for leaving the wrestling area is an attractive alternative. Dake was criticized during the All Star match for backing out of bounds. If there was a step out rule he wouldn't have done that (see the Dake Taylor freestyle match for proof). Also, guys who push back towards the center to avoid giving up a point for going out become vulnerable to throws and leg attacks, whereas under the current rules they just back out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How often does stalling on the feet NOT involve backing up towards the edge or playing the edge in some fashion? Not often. This is why having a penalty for leaving the wrestling area is an attractive alternative. Dake was criticized during the All Star match for backing out of bounds. If there was a step out rule he wouldn't have done that (see the Dake Taylor freestyle match for proof). Also, guys who push back towards the center to avoid giving up a point for going out become vulnerable to throws and leg attacks, whereas under the current rules they just back out.

 

 

Bingo, we have a winner. Well stated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the biggest culprits of today's stalling is the stance in a tie up. I am pretty sure in the good ole days of high scoring matches, as soon as one bent over and backed out their hips, they would get dinged for stalling, and now, it seems to be the preferd strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
speaking of situational calls, I hate the ref who hasn't called (obvious) stalling all match, but then in last 30 seconds decides to call it....heck at least be consistent

There are more stalling calls in the third period than the first for good reasons:

 

1. When the match starts it is 0-0, no one has a lead to protect and therefore there is less incentive to stall.

 

2. No one is out of gas in the first period; the same is not true for the third.

 

I'm not talking incentive to stall, I'm talking refs letting stalling go all match and suddenly deciding to call it at end of match...if I'm wrestling and it's been ok for me to play the edge all match (while not good), don't change the rules (or your interpretation of) at the end.

 

1. and really do you think no one has an incentive to stall when it's 0-0? heck, some guys are stalling when they walk off the bus....call it!

2. you don't have to be out of gas to stall

 

I'm not arguing for inconsistency-I want officials to be consistent too. What I am arguing is this point that there is more stalling called in the third period than the first and that that is evidence of inconsistency. It isn't, for the reasons I stated above.

 

I'm also not arguing for your strawman argument that there is no stalling in the first, but I would argue that there is less. Nor is it necessary to be out of gas. But it is a contributor, i.e. makes it more likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about handfighting and wrestling the edge of the mat? Wrestler A, 5-10 times throughout a match is standing back to the outer circle in some cases completely out of the circle while wrestler B Always has his back to the center. IF, wrestler B takes a shot, he certainly finishes out of bounds, If wrestler A takes a shot, he will ALWAYS finish in bounds. Wrestler A never takes that shot, plays the edge systematically and get called for stalling only once, when it was clear from the get go what is strategy was. Wrestler A even given the chance to circle back in to create action, he does nothing to step forward back into circle.

 

Fans and young wrestlers in the stands are left to wonder why a ranked D 1 wrestler will not engage any action in the center of the mat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stalling doesnt get called nearly enough. But, I think the pushout rule in folkstyle would ruin the sport. I can imagine a number of wrestlers just pushing people out of bounds for a point and the matches would be brutal to watch. Might as well make it sumo then.

The pushout rule didn't turn Freestyle into sumo.

 

And it wouldn't turn folkstyle into either. There would be more wrestling and it would take less time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw a lot of stall calls at Maryland on Saturday but they were all on the bottom guy and it was ridiculous.

 

Don't know how many times I saw bottom guy broken down and top guy with a high-thigh figure-4 right on top and just bumping bottom guys arms out when he tried to base up and the refs were hitting the bottom guy for stalling. If top guy just wants to sit there and do that, there is nothing the bottom guy can do about it but yet they were hitting bottom guy for stalling.

 

I don't mind riding time, as it is very hard to ride a tough wrestler at the college level, let alone turn him. But, to get a dominating position (like a high-thigh figure-4) and to not even attempt to do anything with it is stalling on the top guy, not the bottom guy.

 

 

But, in my opinion, the officiating at Maryland in the duals I watched was not very good overall so maybe that explains it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the biggest culprits of today's stalling is the stance in a tie up. I am pretty sure in the good ole days of high scoring matches, as soon as one bent over and backed out their hips, they would get dinged for stalling, and now, it seems to be the preferd strategy.

 

True, in the old days you had to have your head up, which led to more throws, and nowadays when you watch those matches they look sloppy and the stances goofy. The styles have evolved, and I don't want the rules telling people what style to wrestle, so I have less of a problem with guys' stances and tie ups as I do playing the edge. If a guy stands dead center on the mat and gets a dominating tie up but decides not to attack, the onus is still on the opponent to score on him. A guy that stands in the center and is willing to engage in tie ups should be very "takedown-able". It's the guy that refuses to engage and constantly backs away, play the edge, circles in but then back up to the edge again, and if you shoot he goes out of bounds......that's the guy that's impossible to score on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stalling doesnt get called nearly enough. But, I think the pushout rule in folkstyle would ruin the sport. I can imagine a number of wrestlers just pushing people out of bounds for a point and the matches would be brutal to watch. Might as well make it sumo then.

 

The answer is to just call the damn stall calls consistently and the officials need to grow a pair and call it more often when stalling is and should be warranted.

 

I used to think the same thing until I watched more events where there was a pushout rule. Now I think a vast majority of the time it keeps the wrestlers in the middle and rewards the offensive wrestler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stalling doesnt get called nearly enough. But, I think the pushout rule in folkstyle would ruin the sport. I can imagine a number of wrestlers just pushing people out of bounds for a point and the matches would be brutal to watch. Might as well make it sumo then.

 

The answer is to just call the damn stall calls consistently and the officials need to grow a pair and call it more often when stalling is and should be warranted.

 

I used to think the same thing until I watched more events where there was a pushout rule. Now I think a vast majority of the time it keeps the wrestlers in the middle and rewards the offensive wrestler.

What about a rule where they give a pushout point but let the action go on like they do now. So you could not only get a pushout point but a takedown as well. The idea is to stay in the middle. Keep the action going. It would speed matches up and reward guys for staying in the middle of the mat and wrestling. It would also reward guys for finishing holds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm so sick of these 3-2 matches. I understand wrestling at a high level, and everyone has to be able to pull off a 3-2 win at some point in their career, stuff happens, but it's so common now. Most American wrestling fans say they prefer folk style to freestyle for the excitement, that is a ridiculous statement given the amount of 3-2 or riding time tie breaker matches going on. Hell, just the term riding time infers stalling, in the definition of stalling riding is stalling, it means just hanging on, riding, not attempting to turn.

 

I dot want to make this another Dake/Taylor thread, but this point is why I am more of a Taylor fan. I like Dake, I was around him at the Olympic trials and loved the way he interacted with younger fans, have a TON of respect for him, and even more respect for the fact that he goes up a weight every year as opposed to sucking 30 pounds, that is great for the sport. However, Taylor's style of wrestling is what the sport needs more of.

 

When you look at the greatest American wrestlers of all time, they all have one thing in common, they score points! Cael, Smith, Burroughs, they are offensive machines that GET AFTER IT! People bash the ball grab in freestyle, but even if they had it back in the day, can you imagine a single John Smith period coming down to a ball grab? Not likely. The reason Burroughs is having the kind of success few if any freestyles have had in the last 20 years is his offense.

 

How many 3-2 matches does Taylor have? I bet your average dual meet has more low scoring, boring matches then Taylor will have in his career. I loved the thread where Randy Lewis talked about how few low scoring matches he had in his day, and that is what we need more of for the sport to grow in popularity.

 

Now, I know the sport has changed since Lewis's day, technique is evolved, defense is more solid, counter wrestler is better, more high level coaching from a young age on all around the country, but still. As a fan, I want to see more of these fearless get after it types and fewer 3-2 matches.

 

Ok, rant over. I know my thoughts were a little scattered and all over the place there, but hopefully that made some sense.

 

Dake has only four 3-2 matches in his career and only 1 this season (against Taylor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×