Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Powerline

Off all the great stories this weekend, got to give props to Dake

Recommended Posts

It is the equivalent of Imar at 157 moving up to 184; it is almost an identical weight difference (27lbs to 26.5lbs). I'm sorry but if Dean beat Imar a few months after the NCAAs, even by a few points as opposed to one, would anyone say based on that that Dean is therefore the more talented of the two?  

If Martinez shows up at 184 next year and Dean beats him, I will say that.

 

Of course Cox is talented. He has two NCAA titles already. But at equal weights he loses every time.

Well since Dake will never have the size of J'den, I will say that if J'den cuts down to 74 kilos, Dake will beat him. Of course, he'd probably be in the hospital, but I won't even proclaim that Dake only beat him because he had the advantage of being appropriately sized for the weight class.

 

Remember, despite the fact the J'den is a good size for the weight, nobody was picking him to win it (ok, maybe a couple people went out on that limb, but not many). Most didn't think he'd get through Herbert, who we know has the size for the weight. As a huge fan of J'den's, I wasn't even comfortable picking him as he has so little experience. I was just excited to see how he stacked up, which he obviously stacks up pretty well.

 

In all fairness, I do understand what you are saying. Of course a guy at a lower weight class can be more talented than a guy at a higher weight class. But if that person decides to put on weight to face that other guy and they lose.....well........them's the breaks.

Edited by Crotalus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other than his mental strength, what impresses me most about Dake and makes him unique at the moment is his ability to adjust to different opponents. He is incredible at adjusting very quickly, even against a JB-caliber wrestler.

 

When they first met, JB blew him out of the water, Dake went back to his rest area, and came back and technically beat him per UWW rules but lost in OT (USAW decided to adjust the rules to have OT for that competition only).

 

I thought there was no way Dake would take a math from Cox after he got out horsed so badly in the first. It just looked like Savid and Giliath out there. Dake could get in, but then, even as John Smith stated on air, he just couldn't overcome the extra size and strength. Of course, he comes back and beats Cox just when I thought he'd get blown out after Cox got a feel for Dake, and then nearly beats him again in the third match.

 

You can never count out a guy like that, who truly believes to his core that he can beat anybody, even against JB. As I mentioned, I expect him to take another crack at the champ in the future.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we are entering the twilight zone. Dake went up to a weight class that was 27 pounds heavier than the one he ideally competes in, and tried to do so in manner of months. He did not do it due to natural growth. He did it because 74kg, his natural weight, was blocked off. Dake is and will remain too small for the 86kg weight. Yet your theory is that going up 27 pounds, the equivalent of three NCAA weight classes, had no bearing on the outcome. I mean, come on.  You do not even believe that. And I know you don't because right after the match you wrote that you had picked Cox because the size disadvantage was too great. Does not matter how long Dake "prepared". He was never going to be big enough for the weight, period. Cox is certainly talented, but he won simply because he was considerably bigger and heavier than the guy he was competing with. And before Cox Dake was all in against Perry for the exact same reason, despite the claim that he looked "fantastic." But instead of giving Dake his due for almost pulling off the impossible, you magically decide that Cox had no advantage over a guy he was significantly bigger than, even though every point Cox scored could be attributed to the size difference.(eg, the take down and push out in the 3rd match). Dake went up to weight class with a limit 27 pounds heavier and came within a hair's breath of making the Olympic team. Cox won but that's all.    

 

 

Spin it how ever you need, in order to fit your narrative.  The fact remains, when Dake's advantage and Cox's advantage were both factored in, Cox reigned as the better man.    I hate to toot my own horn, but you are correct, I did call this bout.  And not only this one, I called Cox to win the tournament.   And no amount of disadvantage Cox had to overcome, was going to deny him.   What was your prediction?   I'm going to guess, Dake, given your resorting to the hypothetical, in order to salvage a measure of victory.   

 

I'm willing to give you the imaginary bout, if you need those that much.   Here goes:  If Dake was just not Dake, and instead he was a bigger human, all other things the same, including the terrible disadvantage Cox, the underclassman was facingn, I would favor Dake in the bout.   

 

In real life, Cox is better, but in the make believe, I'm with you, Dake wins.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reasons and excuses are considerably different.  I don't think anyone believes that Cox didn't earn or deserve the win.  He  outwrestled Dake and is our representative.

 

The problem here is everyone wants to dismiss the weight difference as a non factor.  That simply isn't true.  It was confirmed that Cox had 20lbs on Dake at match time.  That is a HUGE factor.  But, it doesn't take ANYTHING away from his win, and I think that is why many want it dismissed.  To me, it is no different than saying Ed Ruth had a long wingspan and was able to cradle almost anyone he wanted.  Or John Smith was so slick he kept hitting singles.  Or Burroughs was so explosive that his double is almost unstoppable.  Cox had a huge advantage over the WHOLE field.  Not just Dake.  Cox is a great wrestler and athlete and was HUGE for the weight without any noticeable conditioning issues.  He was at a weight class that MAXIMIZED his potential.

 

Another big reason for this argument is some saying that Cox is a better wrestler than Dake.  I just don't see that.  However, I DO SEE that Cox is a better wrestler than Dake at 86kg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reasons and excuses are considerably different.  I don't think anyone believes that Cox didn't earn or deserve the win.  He  outwrestled Dake and is our representative.

 

The problem here is everyone wants to dismiss the weight difference as a non factor.  That simply isn't true.  It was confirmed that Cox had 20lbs on Dake at match time.  That is a HUGE factor.  But, it doesn't take ANYTHING away from his win, and I think that is why many want it dismissed.  To me, it is no different than saying Ed Ruth had a long wingspan and was able to cradle almost anyone he wanted.  Or John Smith was so slick he kept hitting singles.  Or Burroughs was so explosive that his double is almost unstoppable.  Cox had a huge advantage over the WHOLE field.  Not just Dake.  Cox is a great wrestler and athlete and was HUGE for the weight without any noticeable conditioning issues.  He was at a weight class that MAXIMIZED his potential.

 

Another big reason for this argument is some saying that Cox is a better wrestler than Dake.  I just don't see that.  However, I DO SEE that Cox is a better wrestler than Dake at 86kg.

 

Great summary. Now let this thread end.

 

Anyone who claims size is not a factor in wrestling has never wrestled at a high level. I remember Sergei Beloglazov commenting on his loss to John Smith that he felt he could keep up with him technically, but the weight difference was too much. That was 11 pounds. Dake giving up 20-25 lbs is a huge disadvantage. It doesn't mean Cox is not better at 189, and it doesn't mean Cox didn't deserve the win. But this type of size disparity is extremely rare in our sport at the Olympic Trials level (I have never seen it outside of the HWT class) and therefore it was a noteworthy topic. Dake performed surprisingly well, at least to me, in this unique matchup. That is all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok everyone repeat after me.....

 

Dake is an amazing wrestler who moved up a weight and almost won the olympic trials.

 

Cox is an amazing wrestler who won the olympic trials as a college student. 

 

don't think anyone would disagree with those two statements.

Edited by jerbufoon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahem (clearing throat), not to be too nitpicky (but I will), I would put the Cox statement first, then the Dake statement 2nd (kind of based on placing.) Like this...

  1. Cox is an amazing wrestler who won the olympic trials as a college student. 
  2. Dake is an amazing wrestler who moved up a weight and almost won the olympic trials.

Great job by both of these guys - and this is only the start. Much more to come from both of them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...