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Axe_Spartan

Doubt about par terre position rule in Freestyle wrestling

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I was reading those modifications that Greco-Roman Wrestling went through last year, especially the end of the ordered par-terre, and there was one rule modification I wasn't aware of, this one:

 

Defense position in parterre: In order to give a chance to the top wrestler to execute a hold in parterre wrestling, the bottom wrestler must defend himself by having his both arms open –away from his body. The bottom wrestler cannot “close” himself by having his elbows close to his body or join his elbows and his knees or legs in order to prevent the upper wrestler from taking a hold. The wrestler who behaves against this rule, after a strict verbal warning, will be immediately penalized by a caution and 2 pointsfor his opponent and the bout will continue again in parterre position.

 

 

Does this limitation to the bottom wrestler also applies to freestyle? I think I saw once or twice a ref warning the bottom wrestler trying to break the hold in par terre (not having his both arms open), but I'm not sure of that. I can't find anything about it in the rules - as updated in march 2016, so I presume that's valid.

Edited by Axe_Spartan

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you can't turtle up in free, but, if you grab a leg it is no big deal... definitely more flexibility for your defense

 

About turtling up ok, but when the bottom wrestler is on his belly does he need to open up his arms? Can't he try to at least break the hold?

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you can get away with one hand grabbing the the hold and alternating back and forth, but, you will get warned if you just grab a hand and wait out... the difference in freestyle comes from if the top man can't lock up a gut or leg lace, a good wrestler will immediately transition to the other, which, should not allow the bottom wrestler to be in the situation described...

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you can get away with one hand grabbing the the hold and alternating back and forth, but, you will get warned if you just grab a hand and wait out... the difference in freestyle comes from if the top man can't lock up a gut or leg lace, a good wrestler will immediately transition to the other, which, should not allow the bottom wrestler to be in the situation described...

 

So, the bottom line is, you don't need to open both arms right? You can lock up your elbows on the side of your body to prevent a hold?

Edited by Axe_Spartan

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no, you can cheat a little and see what you can get away with... each ref is a little different, so, some may let you get away with fighting the grip a little

 

but, if you are fighting a grip you are not defending what you should be effectively anyway... you fight that grip you are not fighting the turn, which, is what you should be preventing... the most effective way to not allow the grip to get locked up is change body position... keep moving... flatten out when they go for the gut and sit up when they go for the legs...

 

once the grip is locked, you should be turning into it with your arms and legs out to prevent the turn...

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no, you can cheat a little and see what you can get away with... each ref is a little different, so, some may let you get away with fighting the grip a little

 

but, if you are fighting a grip you are not defending what you should be effectively anyway... you fight that grip you are not fighting the turn, which, is what you should be preventing... the most effective way to not allow the grip to get locked up is change body position... keep moving... flatten out when they go for the gut and sit up when they go for the legs...

 

once the grip is locked, you should be turning into it with your arms and legs out to prevent the turn...

 

I really got your point, thanks for your response, but what I'm asking is what you CAN do within the rules, not what you SHOULD do. Just wanted to know if it is obligatory to the wrestler on bottom to open both arms and if the wrestler can fight the grip if he wants to, as I don't find anything about it in the rules, what it is strange.

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well, after skimming through both USA and UWW rulebooks, in freestyle it does not appear to be illegal to defend with your arms in, but, it is a horrible idea...

 

Did you find anything about trying to break the grip? I coudn't find it anywhere.

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nothing... but, i did get into with another coach this weekend about fighting the grip while in a front headlock in greco... i did not pursue it much as i was not totally sure on  the rule book def... MFer better not push me this weekend!!

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nothing... but, i did get into with another coach this weekend about fighting the grip while in a front headlock in greco... i did not pursue it much as i was not totally sure on  the rule book def... MFer better not push me this weekend!!

 

Maybe it's valid to fight the grip then. I would like to know about it with a UWW official, and if it's indeed prohibited, I don't know why it's not in the rulebook.

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Ugh, I hate this rule so much; why should I have to let someone lock up a wrestling hold on me without a fight, especially one as painful and injurious as a gut wrench?? It's like saying you can't defend Burroughs double leg until he grips behind your knees.  Beyond stupid.  These guys should go down in par-terre under Bisek and then tell us that we can't defend a lock!

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Ugh, I hate this rule so much; why should I have to let someone lock up a wrestling hold on me without a fight, especially one as painful and injurious as a gut wrench?? It's like saying you can't defend Burroughs double leg until he grips behind your knees.  Beyond stupid.  These guys should go down in par-terre under Bisek and then tell us that we can't defend a lock!

 

Yes, it's a beyond stupid rule. I just hope this is not applicable to freestyle.

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You can try to fight the hands in Freestyle at your on peril.  The wrestler has to present an open position just like in Greco-Roman.  They address in the rules par terre specific in Greco-Roman because you have a choice to put your opponent there.  Rarely does a par terre restart happen in Freestyle, so it appears to not be addressed.  Well, I assure you, it is addressed in every clinic.  The par terre position is the same and the allowable defense is the same, except you can block with your legs in Freestyle.

 

Basically, when the referee says "Open", you better let go of your defensive lock on the top guy's hands, don't close down your elbows to your sides, uncross your legs, and/or don't close off your elbows to your knees.  The bottom wrestler should then stay open.  If they do not, they should have a Caution and 2 against them for fleeing the hold in the defensive position.  There will also be a par terre restart after this.

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well, after skimming through both USA and UWW rulebooks, in freestyle it does not appear to be illegal to defend with your arms in, but, it is a horrible idea...

 

The UWW rulebook is a joke.  Not all of the rules are covered.  Hardly any of the nuances/interpretations are covered.  Some of the issue revolves around language.  But, I think most of the ambiguous nature of the rule books is intentional.  It is pretty easy to point to a bad call if it the situation is specifically and clearly referenced in the rule book.  The lack of rule specificity allows officials to do what they want.  After all, the UWW officials are more important than the athletes, right?

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You can try to fight the hands in Freestyle at your on peril.  The wrestler has to present an open position just like in Greco-Roman.  They address in the rules par terre specific in Greco-Roman because you have a choice to put your opponent there.  Rarely does a par terre restart happen in Freestyle, so it appears to not be addressed.  Well, I assure you, it is addressed in every clinic.  The par terre position is the same and the allowable defense is the same, except you can block with your legs in Freestyle.

 

Basically, when the referee says "Open", you better let go of your defensive lock on the top guy's hands, don't close down your elbows to your sides, uncross your legs, and/or don't close off your elbows to your knees.  The bottom wrestler should then stay open.  If they do not, they should have a Caution and 2 against them for fleeing the hold in the defensive position.  There will also be a par terre restart after this.

 

I really don't get this rule, the bottom wrestler is already in a disadvantageous position, why in the first place should he be limitited on what he does to defend a turn? The bottom wrestler should be able to turtle, to fight hands, to cross legs, to close down his elbows.

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