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prime B. Saitiev vs. prime Burroughs: who wins?

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It's tough to pick against B. Saitiev. We all know he has nine world-level golds. But as JB approaches gold number five (probably six if he hadn't hurt his knee), it's starting to seem like JB is not far from where Saitiev was. On top of that, it seems like JB would be a bad stylistic matchup for Saitiev. 

 

We saw that Saitiev could be stopped with that Slay double. Would he be able to solve that Burroughs double?

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I'm with Coach J. One match, I pick JB. 10 matches, I think Saitiev figures him out.

 

The biggest adjustment with wrestling JB is how to tie him up. He is so physically strong and quick and has such long arms, it's hard to tie him up and move him. All his best attacks are from a distance, which makes approaching very dangerous, and of course, he has that nasty reshot of you try to attack from space yourself.

 

That said, Saitiev is so long himself, if anyone can close the gap and force KB to wrestle from where he's uncomfortable, it's him. I wish we had a time machine and a million bucks to make this happen.

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I think it says a lot about the posters on this board that everyone who posted here is so right on this question.  Buvaisar had trouble with Slay because he kept distance, but he certainly didn't have trouble with all explosive athletes if they gave him any kind of contact.  The Russians also clearly respect Burroughs enough to scout him, so a modern day match, where every Burroughs match is archived,would favor Saitiev, but if a cocky Buvaisar stepped on the mat in that strait legged stance, Burroughs would spend two matches double legging him at will before going for a bunch of rides and getting turned a few times the next couple.

 

Random Trivia:

Last year Burroughs accomplished something B.Saitiev never pulled off, which is a technical fall in the World Championship Finals

Saitiev did however refuse a tech. fall in the first match of the Worlds one year and ended up winning 34-2

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In defense of JB...

 

His talent is a matchup nightmare for anyone that ever lived.  Health permitting, he would never be out of a match.

 

I agree, earlier matches in a series would favor JB and Satiev would adjust.  I don't see it being more then 6-4 either way in a ten match series.  Both wrestlers would have their hands full.

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The Saitiev that beat Kenny Monday may be the best version of any wrestler I've ever seen.  Off the charts.  That being said, Saitiev did have trouble with Joe Williams and JB to me is a more active version of Joe.  Maybe not as strong but possibly quicker?  Probably better technique and without a doubt better gas tank.  Prime vs Prime Saitiev 6-4, though.

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I guess you could say there are a lot of similarities between Monday and Burroughs as well.  Saitiev handled Monday but that wasn't Monday at his best.  Also, Monday played around with Saitiev's upper body skills which was a big mistake and one Burroughs wouldn't make.  JB would have the same present day ability to scout and prepare as well.  This one would be tight.

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JB would adjust to what Saitiev was doing or trying to do.  He's not the only one who could figure it out and make adjustments.  I think Burroughs is a much better all around athlete, like he could run faster, jump higher, etc.  Saitiev never struck me as a guy who could blow your doors off athletically.  Burroughs though also has a ton of mat savvy and great awareness so he knows where he is and what he has to do at all times.  Like when he came back to beat DT in the Open.  He knew he had to score and he knew what he had to do in order to score.  He changed up what he did and was able to win, not because he was a better athlete than DT, but because he recognized where he had an opening. 

 

I say JB wins 7 of 10. 

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Burroughs is pretty close to what many Americans, myself included, think is B. Saitiev's kryptonite as a wrestler.  Give him as little opportunity as possible to get his hands on you and start making you look like a kindergartener.  Just blow him right off his feet.  Still think that he would take matches from JB just because he can always do something you could never have prepared for.

 

Adam Saitiev, on the other hand, might absolutely whomp Burroughs.  In his prime, he was almost wrestling up a weight and just  torching guys like Romero.  He had a better stance than Busavair, and was much more athletic.

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I am with LongShot. Satiev had trouble with Williams, winning 5-4 in the 2001 world semifinals in a match that Williams appeared very much capable of winning. Also, Williams had taken 4th in the 1999 worlds so may have been a little more scouted than Slay. 

 

On a separate note, one of the many things that makes Satiev's success so unfathomable to me is the span of time over which he won his nine medals. He was active from 1995 to 2008. In those fourteen years he was on ten world teams but skipped or did not make four teams, and in two of those times other Russians won (Makhach, 2007 and brother Adam, 1999). He did not make 2002, losing out to the eventual world silver medalist.

 

This Wikipedia page shows has some of that info (another awesome example, by the way, I have no idea who does these pages, I am not involved):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buvaisar_Saitiev

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I am with LongShot. Satiev had trouble with Williams, winning 5-4 in the 2001 world semifinals in a match that Williams appeared very much capable of winning. Also, Williams had taken 4th in the 1999 worlds so may have been a little more scouted than Slay. 

 

On a separate note, one of the many things that makes Satiev's success so unfathomable to me is the span of time over which he won his nine medals. He was active from 1995 to 2008. In those fourteen years he was on ten world teams but skipped or did not make four teams, and in two of those times other Russians won (Makhach, 2007 and brother Adam, 1999). He did not make 2002, losing out to the eventual world silver medalist.

 

This Wikipedia page shows has some of that info (another awesome example, by the way, I have no idea who does these pages, I am not involved):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buvaisar_Saitiev

He also contended with numerous rule changes, bout lengths, etc., and adapted to all.

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I think Adam Satiev is the GOAT at least in my mind:-). He was a three time champ the size of Dake-maybe a bit smaller up a weight or two. Split matches with 7 champ Gatsalov. And he made the Russian national finals at 36 years old and lost to Tsrugush. I mean he wrestled 149 his first year at the senior level. He supposedly could not beat his older brother? Well if that is true then maybe his older brother is GOAT. Right now we have JB and Sadulleav potentially passing these brothers in my mind if they run the table another cycle. These two guys are scary good and I will wait a few years and see how Sadulleav does at 213.

Edited by PRyan2012

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Satiev's longevity is something to marvel at. To put his career in perspective, let's project out what JB would have to do to compete with Satiev's longevity (and if any US wrestler can do it, it's JB and I hope he does):

 

Satiev's world career spanned fourteen years. Burrough's started in 2011, so would have to wrestle through 2024 and he would be around thirty six years old. Satiev's retired after 2008 (that was his last world-level competition) and was 33 at the time. Satiev also had two world appearances where he didn't place (2000 and 2006 where he went one and done). He also didn't make the 2007 world team (neck injury) and skipped the 2002 world championships. So Satiev had two world level appearances where he failed to make a gold and two years of not competing. So the good news is that even the great Satiev managed to not win a gold four of fourteen years. That's good news for JB if he wants to tie Satiev. Since JB got a bronze 2014, between now and 2024 (nine more world teams) he needs to win five more golds to tie Satiev's nine and could miss skip or miss three. 

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I can't resist adding that Bruce Baumgartner was on fifteen straight US world teams, collected five golds, four silvers and four bronze. Bruce's first gold was in 1984 (and I am fully prepared to believe he could have won that gold even with the eastern bloc countries present) and his last gold was in 1995. While five golds is different than nine, the fast that Bruce won five golds and four silvers, puts him right up there in my book. I know this is a Satiev thread, but I had to lob one in for Big Bruce, one of my favorite USA wrestlers.

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This is why I put Bruce over Smith. You have got to give longevity more credit. We know guys like Sanderson and Gable win a lot of if there was one tourney who would win type things but they quit young and because of that they probably will be the best coaches ever so I think it was the best choice for them. But big Bruce has my respect-fifteen teams in a row-dang!. That in itself is crazy. Snyder could do that especially if Varner retires now, the 3rd guy on the pole he basically techs. Will be fun watching Burroughs and Snyder try to catch Saitiev.   

Edited by PRyan2012

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Guest ShannonSofield

Last year Burroughs accomplished something B.Saitiev never pulled off, which is a technical fall in the World Championship Finals

Saitiev did however refuse a tech. fall in the first match of the Worlds one year and ended up winning 34-2

 

The funny thing about that tech was that the opponent score the first 2 with a blast double. He was from an African nation, I forget which. He used to wrestle with us at the NYAC, strong as an ox, but not very good. Blast double for two off the whistle. Satiev quickly gets the tech, but decides to continue to hammer him (first round).

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GOAT is B Satiev. 9 titles. Amazing how a string bean is the GOAT. Everyone expects the guy to look like Varner or Eldar K or Karelin . Will Burroughs or Snyder get 10? Odds say no way but will be interesting since Burroughs will be 1/2 way there after this year-no one is beating him at least this year. Only one guy is even close and that is Gedeav.  

 

 

As far as Satiev vs JB. I go with JB because the art of beating him is quick finishes and Burroughs is a master at that!

Edited by PRyan2012

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