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bigmik

"Inevitable" Penn State dynasty nipped in the bud?

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As most of you know by now, Iowa is getting big time PA recruits Spencer Lee and Gavin Teasdale. This is a huge pick up for Iowa and a great blow to Penn State. It was looking like Penn State would never let any top 5-10 overall recruits ever escape the state again, but this happens. They lose Lee, a guy who many believe could be the best recruit to ever come out of PA. And not only do they lose Lee, they lose him to their #1 rival Iowa! The Iowa Hawkeye fanbase must be ecstatic. I imagine those who were predicting Iowa's demise will be silent for quite some time after this one.

 

Does this pick up swing things in Iowa's favor now for the next 4 or 5 years? From nearly every account that I've heard, Lee is a game changer. He's a guy who will completely change the culture at Iowa and will be responsible for the Hawks landing many top recruits in the future. Lee is pegged to be in the Metcalf role for the next great Iowa championship run. Will Lee live up to the hype? Will Lee be the spark that renews Iowa's past dominance?

 

How are you feeling Iowa fans? Penn State fans?

 

 

Thread role call: (Please leave me a message guys)

 

MSU158

Vakattack

Willie

HoundedHawk

WildTurkey44

Tbarr1977

FlyingTiger

Wrestlingnerd

HurricaneWrestling

Cletus Tucker

LordNelson

BigTimeFan

Old Marine 

Jason Bryant

Edited by bigmik

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The thing that surprised me in the (first) article by Andy Hamilton is where it mentioned Mark Perry was the last #1 ranked recruit to sign with Iowa and that was back in 2003. It is hard to believe that it has been 13 years since Iowa landed the top recruit.

 

While Iowa has had solid classes with depth, they have lacked the blue chip can't miss recruits that Ohio State and Penn State have been bringing into the program. I think that is a significant difference. I am not sure if it was partly because Iowa hadn't been accustomed to offering a lot of scholarship money to recruits so they ended up with more top-50 recruits or what but the second article (below) seems to indicate that Brands may be more interested in focusing on the star power than the depth of the program. After all, you can always forfeit matches in duals during the season and get your national title. There are only two events that matter in wrestling (National Qualifier and Nationals).

 

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2016/04/20/college-wrestling-recruiting-iowa-hawkeyes-land-spencer-lee-gavin-teasdale/83300286/

 

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2016/04/21/college-wrestling-recruiting-iowa-hawkeyes-spencer-lee-gavin-teasdale-quick-analysis/83322244/

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I have the answers to all of your questions...unfortunately, I was not listed, so I will not be answering them.

 

Feel free to respond. The thread roll call list is for the people that I personally want to hear from, but everyone else is welcome to contribute.

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The OP makes it sound as though Hawkeye Wrestling was in dire straits before the two commits.  No doubt, it will be really fun to see Gavin Teasdale and Spencer Lee on the mat in black & gold, but I'm not sure there was anything for them to save.  Iowa is a blue blood program and one of college wrestling's preeminent dynasties.  Of course the best talent will always want to wrestle at Iowa.  

 

This is like if Duke Basketball hung a recruiting banner in the rafters for pulling a better class than Arizona.  

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Game changer. The kid is the real deal in every sense of the word. The open letter he wrote speaks to the type of person he is. He made the decision carefully and was open about why he chose the program. Could there ever be a greater tribute to the Iowa program than what Lee wrote and stated in his interview? The coaches, the "family", the fans, and the tradition. Those words are going to ring loud to many high-potential recruits. In one fell swoop, Lee deflected much of the crap that Iowa has gotten in recent years.

 

Lee has the type of style and personality to become one of the sport's superstars, irrespective of how many titles he wins (I'm calling four though), a la David Taylor, Ben Askren, etc. in other words, his popularity could transcend school affiliations, and that hasn't happened in Iowa for a long time.

 

The fact that Lee's parents are small and he feels he'll be a career 125 lber makes me think he'll be the next four-timer. The lighter weights are easier on young wrestlers who may not fully mature until their redshirt sophomore or true junior years, which significantly increases the chances of a freshman winning a title.

 

The Brands are phenomenal coaches but have been out recruited over the past decade. Lee finally gives them elite talent comparable to, if not better than, PSU's post-Cael. And he gives them that talent at the best weight class for their best coach, Terry Brands.

 

He also gives Iowa a shot in the arm when they have various studs in their own right likely in the line-up. Marinelli, Kemmerer, Teasdale, etc.

 

I acknowledge much of this sounds like I'm laying the hype on pretty thick, but to me, Lee is another Kolat or Alan Fried, especially given his small size, as close to a cant-miss recruit as there ever was. He doesn't have any obvious issues that might hamper his progress in college. He's not old for his school year. He is humble and appears to have a good head about his success to date. He is dominant largely because of technique and not physically overpowering HS kids. He has had the same success at the world level. Again, he is small, which will help the college transition. He has no physical shortcomings, i.e. not short or overly stout or underdeveloped or slow.

 

Game changer.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I don't necessarily view Iowa as PSU's number 1 rival within the Big10. Geography and success have made Ohio State move to the #1 rival role for past two years, and I suspect that this will be the case more often than not in the long term. If Ohio State would have landed Lee I'd have been more concerned.

 

Iowa needed Lee more than PSU or Ohio State to restore parity. It was definitely a huge "get" for the program. Parity is good for the sport, dynasties are only good for programs. I really hate losing a Pittsburgh kid, but I've had more than my share to root for in the program's I follow the past few years so I'll try to be gracious vs greedy in wishing Spencer well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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One kid does not change a program and, lets face it, Iowa is good at developing 125 lbers. regardless of whether they get the top recruit at this weight. They would have had a contender at this weight even without Lee.

 

On the other hand, Iowa's getting more than just Lee - they've also got a few other blue-chippers in the pipeline. Any time one program dominates all others, its bad for the sport and turns the NCAA tournament into an individual show (with the team champ a foregone conclusion). Any time we can have more legit. challengers for the national title, it's a good thing.

 

Here's to hoping that Ohio St. and Oklahoma St. can pull in few blue chippers too - nothing would be better than a NCAA tournament with four teams all in the running on the last day.

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The fact that Lee's parents are small and he feels he'll be a career 125 lber makes me think he'll be the next four-timer. The lighter weights are easier on young wrestlers who may not fully mature until their redshirt sophomore or true junior years, which significantly increases the chances of a freshman winning a title.

 

 

I will get to the questions later, but one question. What I thought he said in the interview was he hopes he grows but his parents are small. I don't know that he is sure he will be a 125lber. Did he really say he thinks he will be a career 125lber?

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Well a huge shot in the arm for Iowa, no doubt about it. However, Cael and the team he has assembled look very formidable for the next few years at least. But I think this is a good thing in the fact it'll keep things dicey between these two teams. Meanwhile I'm sure John Smith, Tom Ryan, Joe McFarland, Rob Koll, Brian Smith, Mark Manning, J. Robinson, Kevin Dresser, Pat Popolizio, and others will be out to recruit the best they can get in order to bring the fight to Cael and the Brands Bros.

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I will get to the questions later, but one question. What I thought he said in the interview was he hopes he grows but his parents are small. I don't know that he is sure he will be a 125lber. Did he really say he thinks he will be a career 125lber?

Not in that interview but he has said that in others. He believes he'll be at 57 kg post-college, although who can really say for sure.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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My two cents:

 

I think that this is a step in the right direction. I think it's a step that could catalyze other number one recruits and top five recruits to feel good about going to Iowa. I think there are three major positives:

 

1. Lee is not just a number one recruiter, Lee is a once in five years kind of guy. He is absolutely the kind of guy that will make any other recruit think differently about Iowa, especially the light weights. This is an immediate positive. 

 

2. I think the fact that Teasdale signed at the same time says a lot too. Teasdale is only a sophomore but he's also an undefeated state champ and he's been tearing it up. He scored 96 points in his four tech falls in this years PA states, a state record.

 

They project Teasdale at 133 or 141 "depending on how big Teasdale gets". 

 

3. Lee didn't just commit, he provided a list of ten reasons he committed and a lot of them addressed some of the concerns people might have about Iowa and Brands. He seems fully prepared to tell people what a great guy Brands is and that will make a difference.

 

Another positive for Iowa, of course, is that they have Marinelli coming next year. He's the Flo #3 pound for pound guy at 170. That's critical because I think one of the weaknesses they need to overcome is their upper weights roster. I am a little out of my depth here, but it strikes me that they don't have any great young guy on the coaching staff who is going to excite a lot of young guys about the Iowa room. They have Morningstar, a two-time AA whose highest place was third. Not bad as a general matter but not exactly the guy whose career everyone wants to emulate. And then look at the Hawkeye Wrestling Club. Three of their listed athletes are 57kg, one is 65kg and then there's Telford at 125kg. My question is, who is in the room to attract the upper weight guys? I think that's a missing piece. So the question is can Brands leverage the success of Lee/Teasdale/Marinelli to get some phenom upper weight commits and attract some more people to the room? I think a blockbuster like an early commit from Gable Stevenson (tough with brother Bobby at Minnesota and teammate Hall going to PSU) would be amazing. Failing that getting an upper weight coach or athlete (to HWC) of the highest caliber into the room would certainly help a lot.

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We are talkin' about this one kid making some sort of major impact for Iowa and its faithful ? A big plus for Iowa (I will agree). And a minus (?) for all others who sought this kid. That one guy who can start the lower weights with a win.

 

Realistically, and as someone (de4856) mentioned, the professor has assembled a rather young group of wrestlers that are "formidable" for some years to come. Yeah, I agree. They are a fun group to watch. "Inevitable Penn State dynasty nipped in the bud"? Well, I say inevitably not so.

 

Bonus points. Who, of these two (teams), can,could, and/or will put a group into the tourneys, that can earn bonus points (in bunches).

Edited by denny

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My two cents:

 

I think that this is a step in the right direction. I think it's a step that could catalyze other number one recruits and top five recruits to feel good about going to Iowa. I think there are three major positives:

 

1. Lee is not just a number one recruiter, Lee is a once in five years kind of guy. He is absolutely the kind of guy that will make any other recruit think differently about Iowa, especially the light weights. This is an immediate positive. 

 

2. I think the fact that Teasdale signed at the same time says a lot too. Teasdale is only a sophomore but he's also an undefeated state champ and he's been tearing it up. He scored 96 points in his four tech falls in this years PA states, a state record.

 

They project Teasdale at 133 or 141 "depending on how big Teasdale gets". 

 

3. Lee didn't just commit, he provided a list of ten reasons he committed and a lot of them addressed some of the concerns people might have about Iowa and Brands. He seems fully prepared to tell people what a great guy Brands is and that will make a difference.

 

Another positive for Iowa, of course, is that they have Marinelli coming next year. He's the Flo #3 pound for pound guy at 170. That's critical because I think one of the weaknesses they need to overcome is their upper weights roster. I am a little out of my depth here, but it strikes me that they don't have any great young guy on the coaching staff who is going to excite a lot of young guys about the Iowa room. They have Morningstar, a two-time AA whose highest place was third. Not bad as a general matter but not exactly the guy whose career everyone wants to emulate. And then look at the Hawkeye Wrestling Club. Three of their listed athletes are 57kg, one is 65kg and then there's Telford at 125kg. My question is, who is in the room to attract the upper weight guys? I think that's a missing piece. So the question is can Brands leverage the success of Lee/Teasdale/Marinelli to get some phenom upper weight commits and attract some more people to the room? I think a blockbuster like an early commit from Gable Stevenson (tough with brother Bobby at Minnesota and teammate Hall going to PSU) would be amazing. Failing that getting an upper weight coach or athlete (to HWC) of the highest caliber into the room would certainly help a lot.

 

Does the signing of Lee/Teasdale put Cael's monopoly of elite PA talent in jeopardy?

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In a word no.

 

PSU will have numerous AA's every season as long as they keep getting top 10 guys up and down the lineup. That fact alone makes them a perennial contender, and they are not alone in this position.  

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In a word no.

 

PSU will have numerous AA's every season as long as they keep getting top 10 guys up and down the lineup. That fact alone makes them a perennial contender, and they are not alone in this position.  

 

What question are you answering? The one in the title, or something else?

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I honestly don't care.  I'm just very excited to have two of the top blue chippers in the country wrestle for my favorite team.  This is the way to build champions in the current format.  Iowa will have Lee, Teasdale, and Marinelli as top 5 wrestlers in the country right now.  This is a step in the right direction.  A HUGE step.  But it's not the destination, just the beginning of what needs to be a journey.  These are the guys who are key to scoring 120 points.

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It'll be interesting to watch the pa fanboys slowly begin to denigrate Lee, as they did Marstellar when he committed to OSU.

 

That's already happening.  But as usual, it's a small minority of people.  Nobody ever wants to hear it, but typically it's a small minority of the fans that everybody gets pissed off about and just attributes their actions to the larger fanbase as a group.

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