"Inevitable" Penn State dynasty nipped in the bud?

[jammen 304]

Well, I understand your reluctance to examine Cael's failure at hvy and maybe it is just an anomaly.  After all, your 133 and 141 only have a combined 3,5,5,6,8 in 16 attempts. It's surprising to see that Minny went 1,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,7 during that period.  

[Old_Marine_Wrestler 245]

Here is a breakdown for those wondering why hvy has been such a problem for Cael when he has top recruits stacked 3-4 deep at other weights:

2009 Wade DNQ

2010 Wade 2-2

2010 Wade rd 12

2012 Wade rd 12

2013 Lawson 0-2

2014 Gingrich 1-2

2015 Lawson  AA 6th

2016 Nevills DNQ

Cael Sanderson was hired at Penn State in April 2009, but Coach Sunderland was the HC at Penn State for the 2009 season (where you listed Wade as DNQ). That season Coach Sanderson was at Iowa State, where his 197 won NCAAs and his 285 was 5th.

 

Cael Sandeson seams to do a good job coaching his entire team, as he had pretty good results at the beginning of his head coaching career at Iowa State and has won 5 of the previous 7 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling National Championships since taking over at Penn State.

[jammen 304]

Cael Sanderson was hired at Penn State in April 2009, but Coach Sunderland was the HC at Penn State for the 2009 season (where you listed Wade as DNQ). That season Coach Sanderson was at Iowa State, where his 197 won NCAAs and his 285 was 5th.

 

Cael Sandeson seams to do a good job coaching his entire team, as he had pretty good results at the beginning of his head coaching career at Iowa State and has won 5 of the previous 7 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling National Championships since taking over at Penn State.

That's what I get for trusting the Penn State web site:http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/archive/psu-m-wrestl-mtt-09.html#coaches

[Flying-Tiger 615]

It amazes me that anyone still argues with Jammen. He has been reduced to trolling PSU about heavyweights, lol. 

[JasonBryant 1,675]

Hired after nationals in 09. I hope Jammen realizes the website he reads got updated after Sanderson took over. that's the thing about websites, they CAN be updated in the same season a coach was hired.

 

You're smarter than that dude.

[boconnell 1,422]

It amazes me that anyone still argues with Jammen. He has been reduced to trolling PSU about heavyweights, lol. 

Seriously.  When you are putting together an argument about Cael's coaching ability, you should not be taken seriously.  

[jammen 304]

Hired after nationals in 09. I hope Jammen realizes the website he reads got updated after Sanderson took over. that's the thing about websites, they CAN be updated in the same season a coach was hired.

 

You're smarter than that dude.

 

I got it now.  Troy Sunderland was the coach for 2008-2009 but PSU decided to remove him from that season's roster.

[jammen 304]

I guess it is only fair, though, as Iowa State has wiped Cael Sanderson from their 2008-2009 season as head coach also: http://www.cyclones.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=46633&SPID=4248&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=10700&Q_SEASON=2008

[Jim46 5]

I got it now.  Troy Sunderland was the coach for 2008-2009 but PSU decided to remove him from that season's roster.

Where the term "dimwit" originated.

[lu_alum 716]

Upper Weights under Cael at Penn State:

 

David Taylor

Edward Ruth

Quentin Wright

James Lawson

Matthew Brown

Gino Morelli

Bo Nickal

Matthew McCutcheon

Morgan McIntosh

Nick Nevills

Shak Rasheed

Anthony Cassar

 

This list is inclusive up to this year.

 

If you can find a better list in the past 6 years, overall, please list it now.

 

Or shut up.

that list only works if you consider 165 & 174 as upper weight, which is true if you draw a line at 5 & 5 for the weight classes.

 

I've always thought of the classes as a three-way split:

 

Light weights: 125, 133, 141

Middle weights: 149, 157, 165, 174

Upper weight: 184, 197, 285.

 

A case could be made to make 174 as an upper, since that is that point where the 8-pound gap ends. Given my definition, you have to remove the following from your list:

 

David Taylor

Matthew Brown

Gino Morelli

Bo Nickal

Shak Rasheed

 

I would think Minnesota has a better run at 184-285 over the same time frame

Edited April 30, 2016 by lu_alum

[jammen 304]

Yes, at 184-197-hvy MN had 13 AA's (1,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5,7,7,8,8) to PSU's 8 AA's (1,1,1,1,2,3,6,7).

[21guns 95]

Yes, at 184-197-hvy MN had 13 AA's (1,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5,7,7,8,8) to PSU's 8 AA's (1,1,1,1,2,3,6,7).

And Penn State has 5 national championships, compared to Minnesota's zero.

[WillieBoy 713]

Ya think maybe Cody Sanderson has something to do with Penn State producing a few decent lightweight wrestlers?

[Flying-Tiger 615]

This is all stuff that's been said about Lee for the last year at least, more than that from me personally. Now everybody wants to fight this crusade against a world title he teched his way too.

 

If everybody had been saying this the whole time, I'd buy it a genuine. Now? Sour grapes.

 

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So Vak, Hall was voted OW despite Lee destroying the field. I'm curious to your opinion, was it just a bunch of bitter Penn State fans that infiltrated USA wrestling or was it objective voters that were more impressed with Hall because of the greater depth of his weight class? 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Flying-Tiger

[TBar1977 3,831]

Not to take anything away from Spencer Lee because he is a total stud, but the field at 50kg was nothing compared to the field at Hall's weight. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

What does the fact that Hall (deservedly) won OW have to do with the comments Vak has been making, particularly on the quoted post? Absolutely nothing.

 

Hall is a total stud. Nobody in their right mind would argue with that just as nobody with a double-digit IQ can deny the same of Lee.

 

50 kg was a cakewalk compared to 74 kg in part because there were older, more pedigreed competitors at 74 kg but also in part because Lee made it look so easy.

[VakAttack 2,750]

What does the fact that Hall (deservedly) won OW have to do with the comments Vak has been making, particularly on the quoted post? Absolutely nothing.

 

Hall is a total stud. Nobody in their right mind would argue with that just as nobody with a double-digit IQ can deny the same of Lee.

 

50 kg was a cakewalk compared to 74 kg in part because there were older, more pedigreed competitors at 74 kg but also in part because Lee made it look so easy.

Pretty much. Just a really odd strawman. I've never said anything about Hall other than he's awesome. I've said i think Lee is a better prospect but that's not an insult.

 

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[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Big disappointment at 50 kg juniors this weekend.  I finally got  to see Lee compete, but he was in an extremely soft   weight class, which answered virtually nothing, other than Lee is so small, it's difficult to find any credible opposition for him, in this country.  I can't wait to see him up at 55 kg, when/if he grows some more.

 

On the other hand, what a log jam of talent at 74 kg!   And Valencia at 86 kg, dismantling the NCAA champ.   Wow, this kid is something else.  I'd love to see him at the all star bout against the Penn State kid

[Flying-Tiger 615]

Irrefutable point made so nerd and vak go into obtuse mode, lol. Checkmate!   

[Flying-Tiger 615]

Pretty much. Just a really odd strawman. I've never said anything about Hall other than he's awesome. I've said i think Lee is a better prospect but that's not an insult.

 

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Really, that's what you said because this is what I quoted:

 

"This is all stuff that's been said about Lee for the last year at least, more than that from me personally. Now everybody wants to fight this crusade against a world title he teched his way too.

If everybody had been saying this the whole time, I'd buy it a genuine. Now? Sour grapes."

 

 

CLEARLY there for everyone to read, you were all bent out of shape about people downgrading Lee's titles because of the weight class. My post pointed out that Hall won OW despite Lee TFing everyone in the first minute therefore providing objective proof that not just "Sour Grape" fans feel the weight class is thin and not the best indication of evaluating talent among elite level guys. Saying we should take a wait and see before calling Lee the greatest as nerd proclaims isn't sour grapes, straw or anything else. It's a rational thought process that has been held my many wrestling fans for many years and not this grand conspiracy created the day Lee gave his verbal to Iowa.  

Edited May 2, 2016 by Flying-Tiger

[TBar1977 3,831]

Now everybody wants to fight this crusade against a world title he teched his way too.

 

 

People are crusading against Spencer Lee? Vak's comment is the biggest straw man in this thread, by far, simply because it is false. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by TBar1977

[VakAttack 2,750]

Really, that's what you said because this is what I quoted:

 

"This is all stuff that's been said about Lee for the last year at least, more than that from me personally. Now everybody wants to fight this crusade against a world title he teched his way too.

If everybody had been saying this the whole time, I'd buy it a genuine. Now? Sour grapes."

 

 

CLEARLY there for everyone to read, you were all bent out of shape about people downgrading Lee's titles because of the weight class. My post pointed out that Hall won OW despite Lee TFing everyone in the first minute therefore providing objective proof that not just "Sour Grape" fans feel the weight class is thin and not the best indication of evaluating talent among elite level guys. Saying we should take a wait and see before calling Lee the greatest as nerd proclaims isn't sour grapes, straw or anything else. It's a rational thought process that has been held my many wrestling fans for many years and not this grand conspiracy created the day Lee gave his verbal to Iowa.  

 

So people making a subjective determination that Mark Hall was the Most Outstanding Wrestler adjusting for weight class is objective proof that a different group of people on internet forums aren't downgrading Lee's achievements in the wake of his committing to Iowa.  Truly staggering logic. Aren't you a lawyer, too?

[bigmik 218]

So people making a subjective determination that Mark Hall was the Most Outstanding Wrestler adjusting for weight class is objective proof that a different group of people on internet forums aren't downgrading Lee's achievements in the wake of his committing to Iowa.  Truly staggering logic. Aren't you a lawyer, too?

Who specifically is downgrading Lee's accomplishments now that he's committed to Iowa?

[swoopdown 446]

I am, everything he has done is less impressive and he's off my Nittany Christmas card list. Bad Spencer, you unimpressive bird-size and oriented lightweight world champion

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flying-Tiger 615]

So people making a subjective determination that Mark Hall was the Most Outstanding Wrestler adjusting for weight class is objective proof that a different group of people on internet forums aren't downgrading Lee's achievements in the wake of his committing to Iowa.  Truly staggering logic. Aren't you a lawyer, too?

Vak, you're like the Ted Cruz of the forum. The farther behind you get, the more you act like you're winning. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Flying-Tiger