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(PA, CA, NJ, OH) Will they ever have a female state qualifier or champion?

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Serious question.  I realize some of these states have a girls state championship series. (Hypothetically) Does anybody believe these states could have a female state wrestling qualifier in the boys division?  Or even a female state wrestling champion in the boys division.

 

What is the likelihood??  I know there are other states that have had females qualify for the boys state championship. 

 

What states have had female qualifiers?

 

 

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There's an outside chance a girl could qualify through one of the city sections in California.   The City sections go straight to state, no divisional or sectional qualifier.   If it were to happen, it would be in that manner.   Now could one actually make it through the traditional sense, and get through league, sections, masters, and into state?   I can't imagine a girl emerging who could pull it off.   

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There's an outside chance a girl could qualify through one of the city sections in California.   The City sections go straight to state, no divisional or sectional qualifier.   If it were to happen, it would be in that manner.   Now could one actually make it through the traditional sense, and get through league, sections, masters, and into state?   I can't imagine a girl emerging who could pull it off.   

 

I'm guessing a female has never qualified in California.

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The Bishops in Pa have declared that any boys in a parochial school must forfeit to a female opponent. This could result in a girl who finishes 4th in the Philadelphia public league meeting the 1st, 4th, and 2nd place finishers from the Philadelphia Catholic School League, resulting in the girl winning the district 12 championship(AAA). Indeed, there are likely weights where the five place winners from the Catholic league are all better than the kids from the Public League.

 

To then qualify for states the young lady must get thru the Kids from D2 and D11. But there are three Catholic schools in those 2 Districts (including BeCaHi). So a road to Hershey could open up.

 

I don't think this is likely to happen in say the next decade, but more likely than via brute talent.

 

Of course if the PIAA were to crazy revise the individual tournament (say 4 classifications) maybe.

 

I scored the only match where a girl got into the District 3 Tourney. But that was AA, 106(3?), she was a Sr, and was really 3 wins from getting to regionals. Still, she wrestled smart, daughter of the coach, Cousin of a NCAA D1 qualifier, And her younger brother missed qualifying this year.

 

At least 2 girls have qualified for team states, one medaled, as the backup for her younger brother at 106. The other never went into individuals, she went to an international instead 

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California's first female state qualifier was Tina Nguyen of Oakland High in 1999. However, she did qualify out of a weak section that only has four wrestling teams (Oakland Section). In fact, the year that she qualify to state, there was no other 106-pound wrestlers and that's the reason she was allowed to filled the vacant spot and represent the section. The following year the Oakland Section didn't have a 106-pound wrestler to send to the state tournament. 

 

CIF-State Brackets - http://thecaliforniawrestler.com/cif-state-brackets/

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I'm guessing a female has never qualified in California.

I vaguely remember someone mentioning a girl had made it through one of the City sections, but I can't think of the situation specifically.    For reference, these city sections have only a handful of schools, and they qualify directly int the state tournament.  There are 3 city sections, LA, Oakland, and SF.    It's like these city sections have dirt on the CIF president and thus get a direct ticket to the big show.   Perhaps I'm thinking of Washington.   Tate or something or other, seems to ring a bell.   I would have to check with my contacts in California.    Sorry for the lack of info, I'm celebrating my 70th birthday and I just do not have the memory I used to have.  

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Guest Kingsland

I vaguely remember someone mentioning a girl had made it through one of the City sections, but I can't think of the situation specifically. For reference, these city sections have only a handful of schools, and they qualify directly int the state tournament. There are 3 city sections, LA, Oakland, and SF. It's like these city sections have dirt on the CIF president and thus get a direct ticket to the big show. Perhaps I'm thinking of Washington. Tate or something or other, seems to ring a bell. I would have to check with my contacts in California. Sorry for the lack of info, I'm celebrating my 70th birthday and I just do not have the memory I used to have.

Happy birthday!

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I vaguely remember someone mentioning a girl had made it through one of the City sections, but I can't think of the situation specifically.    For reference, these city sections have only a handful of schools, and they qualify directly int the state tournament.  There are 3 city sections, LA, Oakland, and SF.    It's like these city sections have dirt on the CIF president and thus get a direct ticket to the big show.   Perhaps I'm thinking of Washington.   Tate or something or other, seems to ring a bell.   I would have to check with my contacts in California.    Sorry for the lack of info, I'm celebrating my 70th birthday and I just do not have the memory I used to have.  

All-CIF cares about is making revenue and that's the reason sections like Oakland and San Francisco get a direct ticket to the state tournament. The Los Angeles City Section is improving a lot. At the moment, they have 32 schools that offer wrestling. In fact, in 2014 and 2015 they were allowed to take two wrestlers per weight class due to their great accomplishments in the state tournament.  

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Thanks DiMaria.   I should have pointed out LA section is improving.  I believe they had a placer this year or last, perhaps a couple if I'm not mistaken.  LA city section has some real competitors in its ranks.   Historically, however, the City sections have been quite lacking.  

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Francesca Giorgio was the girl from Wilson of West Lawn who was a world junior or cadet Bronze Medalist. She definitely was key in getting the team to state duals. As a junior, she did not enter the sectional tournament, going to an international tournament instead. I think as a senior, she was actually squeezed from potentially being in the sectional lineup. So she was possibly Pa's most talented girl wrestler (Erin Tomeo more than a decade ago would be the other likely best contender.)


 


She was probably 3 even 4 or 5 ascending upsets away from states.


 


I think for a girl to qualify, (on merit, not by forfeits from parochial school wrestlers, or by defaults etc) the talent would need to be generated by numbers well above the present 50 or so on teams. Probably, by numbers exceeding 1,000. With that many female competitors, I could see PIAA possibly holding a girls tournament.


 


California now has a girls'  tournament. Can girls still enter the boys tournament? It would seem inappropriate. 

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I definitely don't see it happening in PA. All 4 (or 5 in the case of AAA) regions are just too deep for a girl to make it through. I can certainly see one making it through districts to regionals but not through regionals.

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Washington has had Female "Placers" against the boy before they seperated into their own female wrestling championships. She also was invited to the USA team try-outs later on in her career. Her Sr year against the boys, was a 5th place in the State Championships. Prior to that she was 7th as a Jr.

 

Some boys / coachs refused to wrestler her in the beginning, the would just forfeit the weight. 

 

Washington was just a bit ahead of the curve on this issue.

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There were two girls to qualify for the District 1 Central tournament in PA this year, and both won a match.  Mary Nichols from Kennett was a senior, so she's done.  The other was Amanda Walker from Upper Moreland.  Walker lost in consi semis in Greco this past weekend at the USAW Eastern Regional in Stroudsburg, and won her girls freestyle bracket up a weight easily.  She's only a sophomore, so has two more chances, and I do believe she can qualify for regionals, but it's going to be awfully tough to get through a PA region, even if she stays 106 for four years.

Edited by ShortAmplitude

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The city leagues seem to bring down the state of CA tournament in terms of the amount of placers they have coming out of those areas. Something like, what, 3 placers in 30 years? I wonder why those automatic qualifier tournaments (Oak, SF, LA) haven't just been swallowed up by the sections in the area to make sure everyone is going through the same gauntlet to earn their spot.  

 

As far as a girl winning state in those particular states. I don't see it happening. Those four states have extremely tough and physical tournaments. 

Edited by cm_111

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The city leagues seem to bring down the state of CA tournament in terms of the amount of placers they have coming out of those areas. Something like, what, 3 placers in 30 years? I wonder why those automatic qualifier tournaments (Oak, SF, LA) haven't just been swallowed up by the sections in the area to make sure everyone is going through the same gauntlet to earn their spot.  

 

As far as a girl winning state in those particular states. I don't see it happening. Those four states have extremely tough and physical tournaments. 

The following is the medal count for each CIF Section since the first state tournament in 1973:

 

 

TOTAL MEDALS PER CIF SECTIONSouthern (S): 1281 Central (CS): 901, Sac-Joaquin (SJ): 741, Central Coast (CC): 442, San Diego (SD): 408, North Coast (NC): 342, Northern (N): 147, Los Angeles City (LA): 15, Oakland City (O): 12, San Francisco (SF): 2.

 

With the exception of the Los Angeles City Section (rapidly improving), the other two city section have not had a medalist in over a decade. During the early to mid 1970s, the Oakland City produced some quality wrestlers that went on to perform well at the collegiate level. The last high caliber wrestler to rise in Oakland City was 4x NCAA Division I All-American, Gerry Abas, but since his prep days in the beginning of the 1990s, there has not been a medalist. As posted above, the San Francisco City has only produced two medalist in forty plus years, each attending Galileo High School. 

 

In short, the skill level with both the Oakland and San Francisco City Sections is JV at best (there's an exception now and then). Each could easily be absorbed into either the CIF North Coast or Central Coast Sections (geographically in the same area); whereas, the LA City could compete in the CIF Southern Section (300 plus High Schools). If this were to happen, the probability of a wrestler qualifying to state via the North Coast (Oakland/SF) would be very low, but considering the recent talent in the LA City, a handful would more than likely qualify and compete for a state medal.

 

There is a current proposal in the works to absorb the city sections into the North Coast, Central Coast, and Southern Sections respectively, but the idea is not always well received at the CIF level. It's not an issue of setting a new precedent, because it's already been done in other sports…and presenting statistical facts (many zeros) doesn't seem to ever matter. Time will tell.

Edited by Coach_Al

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The following is the medal count for each CIF Section since the first state tournament in 1973:

 

 

TOTAL MEDALS PER CIF SECTIONSouthern (S): 1281 Central (CS): 901, Sac-Joaquin (SJ): 741, Central Coast (CC): 442, San Diego (SD): 408, North Coast (NC): 342, Northern (N): 147, Los Angeles City (LA): 15, Oakland City (O): 12, San Francisco (SF): 2.

 

With the exception of the Los Angeles City Section (rapidly improving), the other two city section have not had a medalist in over a decade. During the early to mid 1970s, the Oakland City produced some quality wrestlers that went on to perform well at the collegiate level. The last high caliber wrestler to rise in Oakland City was 4x NCAA Division I All-American, Gerry Abas, but since his prep days in the beginning of the 1990s, there has not been a medalist. As posted above, the San Francisco City has only produced two medalist in forty plus years, each attending Galileo High School. 

 

In short, the skill level with both the Oakland and San Francisco City Sections is JV at best (there's an exception now and then). Each could easily be absorbed into the CIF North Coast Section (geographically in the same area); whereas, the LA City could compete in the CIF Southern Section (300 plus High Schools). If this were to happen, the probability of a wrestler qualifying to state via the North Coast (Oakland/SF) would be very low, but considering the recent talent in the LA City, a handful would more than likely qualify and compete for a state medal.

 

There is a current proposal in the works to absorb the city sections into the North Coast, Central Coast, and Southern Sections respectively, but the idea is not always well received at the CIF level. It's not an issue of setting a new precedent, because it's already been done in other sports…and presenting statistical facts (many zeros) doesn't seem to ever matter. Time will tell.

 

Thanks for the exact information. Why isn't it being well received? It appears to be absolutely logical and fair to the kids who may get left out from your other sections when those 2-3 slots may make a big difference. 

 

No offense to those competing from those areas but those numbers speak volumes and those sections should not have an auto qualifier given the results. The southern section is your largest section, yes?

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Thanks for the exact information. Why isn't it being well received? It appears to be absolutely logical and fair to the kids who may get left out from your other sections when those 2-3 slots may make a big difference. 

 

No offense to those competing from those areas but those numbers speak volumes and those sections should not have an auto qualifier given the results. The southern section is your largest section, yes?

Politics, politics, and more politics! If it were up to the sport of wrestling, the city sections would have been absorbed into the larger sections many decades ago, but it's not. The California Interscholastic Federation (ran by administrators) is the governing body that manages the state level competitions for both men's and women's sports. Providing each of the ten sections an opportunity to be represented at the CIF State Championships is among the CIF's top priorities and to convince them otherwise is an uphill battle, regardless of decades worth of data showing zeros. The following is this year's stats for the Oakland and San Francisco Sections at the CIF State Championships:

 

San Francisco City Section (SF)

- Weight Groups represented: 13/14 (93%)

- Schools represented: Balboa (2), Galileo (6), Lincoln (1), Lowell (3), Washington (1)

- Total matches won: 0/26 matches contested (0%)

- Total matches lost: 26/26 (100%)

- Total matches lost by pin: 21/26 (~81%)

- Total matches lost by TF: 2/26 (~8%)

- Total matches lost by MD: 2/26 (~8%)

- Total matches lost by decision: 1/26 (~4%)

 

Oakland City Section (O)

- Weight Groups represented: 12/14 (86%)

- Schools represented: Castlemont (4), McClymonds (1), Oakland (2), Oakland Tech (1), Skyline (4)

- Total matches won: 1 out of 25 contested (4%): dec. 7-5 in consolation round (285s)

- Total matches lost: 24/25 (96%)

- Total matches lost by pin: 20/25 (80%)

- Total matches lost by TF: 1/25 (4%)

- Total matches lost by MD: 1/25 (4%)

- Total matches lost by decision: 2/25 (8%)

 

The above is the "norm" not the exception, each and every year. The Los Angeles City Section on the other hand has gone from around 7 schools to over 40 in the last decade, and more recently has seen several kids place at state meet. Pending the CIF were to provide a "thumbs up" to this proposal, the sections likely to get the additional three qualifiers would be the southern and central sections...their stats speak volumes.

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Politics, politics, and more politics! If it were up to the sport of wrestling, the city sections would have been absorbed into the larger sections many decades ago, but it's not. The California Interscholastic Federation (ran by administrators) is the governing body that manages the state level competitions for both men's and women's sports. Providing each of the ten sections an opportunity to be represented at the CIF State Championships is among the CIF's top priorities and to convince them otherwise is an uphill battle, regardless of decades worth of data showing zeros. The following is this year's stats for the Oakland and San Francisco Sections at the CIF State Championships:

 

San Francisco City Section (SF)

- Weight Groups represented: 13/14 (93%)

- Schools represented: Balboa (2), Galileo (6), Lincoln (1), Lowell (3), Washington (1)

- Total matches won: 0/26 matches contested (0%)

- Total matches lost: 26/26 (100%)

- Total matches lost by pin: 21/26 (~81%)

- Total matches lost by TF: 2/26 (~8%)

- Total matches lost by MD: 2/26 (~8%)

- Total matches lost by decision: 1/26 (~4%)

 

Oakland City Section (O)

- Weight Groups represented: 12/14 (86%)

- Schools represented: Castlemont (4), McClymonds (1), Oakland (2), Oakland Tech (1), Skyline (4)

- Total matches won: 1 out of 25 contested (4%): dec. 7-5 in consolation round (285s)

- Total matches lost: 24/25 (96%)

- Total matches lost by pin: 20/25 (80%)

- Total matches lost by TF: 1/25 (4%)

- Total matches lost by MD: 1/25 (4%)

- Total matches lost by decision: 2/25 (8%)

 

The above is the "norm" not the exception, each and every year. The Los Angeles City Section on the other hand has gone from around 7 schools to over 40 in the last decade, and more recently has seen several kids place at state meet. Pending the CIF were to provide a "thumbs up" to this proposal, the sections likely to get the additional three qualifiers would be the southern and central sections...their stats speak volumes.

 

Again, very informative post. In the case you weren't already aware your state tournament is highly regarded outside your state. Now if only we could get Clovis and Buchanan to come to Ironman while we send a few schools to your DocB.

 

To my understand some plans are underway to copy your model for our state tournament to bid for the year 2019. There are some contractual issues that need to expire before it could take effect such as current state tournament location but it has been widely agreed upon, for a long time now, that we should go to a single tournament format. The only issue has been location since some want a rotating location and others prefer a centralized locale. How is that working out for you guys to have the tournament right in the midsection of your state every season? Any complaints?

 

Anyhow, yeah, I could definitely see why it would be fairly aggravating to have some paper pushers who likely know nothing about the sport dictating things such as that. Given the stats from the Oakland and SF sections there is just no reason they should still be in play. That just doesn't give the best 32 wrestlers in your state the best chance and comes off as some hand out bid when the other kids are going through so many weeks just to get a spot. 

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