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Cejudo

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You are cherry picking examples.  I am sure all of us remember people getting knocked out in the wrestling room too.  I remember the special "stormtrooper" headgear 2 of my teammates had to wear because of concussion problems.  I remember guys wearing masks to protect their broken noses or shattered orbital bones.  I remember a teammate posting on a mat return and destroying his arm.  I won't get into details but it was disgusting and he never wrestled again despite a promising start in college.  I remember seeing at least 2 other people taken off to the ambulance after unfortunate accidents (one going head first into a gymnasium wall a few feet out of bounds and the other with a neck injury following a brutal head and arm).  Wrestling is dangerous too.  

 

Dada5000 should not be included in any serious discussion regarding MMA.  He is a street brawler, not an athlete.  Struve's anxiety may or may not have anything to do with prior knockouts.  Some guys suffer from performance anxiety, and after a string of losses, he was fighting for his job.  GSP has stated multiple times that his problems were stress related.  The rigour of the promotion is allegedly what caused his problems.  Maybe you know something he doesn't.   He is not the first person to hate promoting fights though.  ROnda ROusey briefly considered suicide but there is absolutely no proof that had anything to do with concussion symptoms and more to do with self imposed expectations and a self image too influenced by what the media and promotion made her out to be.  Junior Dos Santos took an absolute beating.  I agree with you on that one.  Diego Sanchez made little sense at the start of his career.  The guy was and is nuts but he too, has taken some beatings.  That is his style though. I will give you one you failed to include: Josh Koscheck.  He has suffered some brutal knockouts.   

 

MMA is a great sport.  I can totally understand why someone would want to give it a shot regardless of the dangers.  It isn't exactly boxing and one can use wrestling effectively to prevent exchanges that lead to long term damage if they can impose their will.   Everyone wants to challenge themselves in different ways.  Clearly you don't get the appeal of MMA but that doesn't make it any less appealing to others who do.      

 

 

Yo can excuse away any guy I list, that's not helping anything.   I made that list for Trip, in order to demonstrate why I dislike MMA, despite at one point being a highly sought after trainer.   I gave it up because I saw the dirtiness of the sport.   I didn't get into guys getting ripped off, the amount of drug use, (cheating, abuse, lies, etc.).   It's a barbaric, dangerous, dirty thing.    If I bother to google any names at all, I'll end up with a list of 50 guys, in 20 minutes.   What good does it do for me to list them, if you just tell us, well he should n't have been in there?   He was a reality star, he was a drunk, she has other issues, etc?   We can jut argue all day about how messed up the people in MMA are and MMA just attracts them, but in general it's as safe as combing your barbie dolls hair, and dressing them up in their pretty little dresses.   

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Yeah I know who Cooper is and way back in the day I trained a few times at Kerr's spot in Phoenix.  And yes head injuries are more serious than a knee or a shoulder, but I guess it depends what you consider serious or not.  Up until the last few years nobody really thought concussions were serious.  I hate to sound old fashioned, but the guys who I came up wrestling and doing MMA with I'm sure there were a lot of unknown concussions or other injuries.  Not that they didn't happen, but it just wasn't perceived as being a serious problem.  I've probably had a few that weren't diagnosed.  I'm almost positive I got one in an MMA fight in Mexico.  Of the guys who I remember who took MMA a step further, I don't think any of them have any real adverse medical problems.  Riggs is still competing and now given the scrutiny the promotions are under I don't think they'd let you compete unless they made damn sure you were OK.  Back in the pre sanctioned days though you're right, it was a free for all with not much emphasis on that kind of injury.  Times have changed, so I don't think any promotion wants the bad publicity of letting a guy fight who might end up dead in the cage.  One of the guys I was helping train got knocked out horribly last year and the Arizona Commission refused to let him fight again, not because of repeated knockouts, since he'd only been knocked out 3 times in 8 years, but because he basically didn't mind being punched in the head a lot, would gladly take 3 to get his 1.  The commission was really uncomfortable with him doing that, and adding to that was he flat out told one of the commissioners that he didn't care if he died in the cage.  But as far as I know even with the repeated head trauma, he's suffered no ill effects even though he's been in some absolute wars, and not with local tough guys, but guys who've been in UFC, Bellator, WSOF, etc.  Usually taking them to a decision, so it's not as if he was getting steamrolled really. 

 

If it hurts you to watch guys lose then don't watch.  People lose in all kinds of combat sports.  I've seen plenty of guys get hurt at grappling tournaments.  Hell I even saw Henry's brother hurt a guy (by accident) his senior year of wrestling.  They had to take the kid away on a stretcher.  Cejudo could do those other things, but he apparently doesn't want to or figures he can do something else athletically.  I don't see him playing in the NFL or anything, so if he is going to continue on and hope to make a living at it, MMA is basically it.  It's hard to watch guys you're a fan of lose, but you have to know that can happen in anything.  If you're a fan of Stephen Abas, do you think it was a good idea for him to try to wrestle for the spot in 2008 only to have Cejudo injure him further and beat him for the spot? 

 

Also I find it strange that I've only encountered maybe one guy who acted or was kind of somewhat open about his personal life in MMA, but you've apparently seen it a lot more times than I have.  Maybe I was just training at the right place?  I remember one guy used to come around and I'm pretty sure he was gay.  He never made me feel uncomfortable or anything, but oh well.  I figured if he'd ever tried to grab or touch anyone they'd have hurt him or something.  I don't think it's a widespread problem like you say it is.  It's definitely not indicative of the kinds of people in MMA. 

 

 

Either way Trip, 

 

You have my apology.   My comments offended you, and I apologize. 

 

Did you ever meet Kevin Randleman?   Sweetest guy I have ever met.   A stone cold killer/sweet as apple pie.   

 

He's dead now.   There is an entire generation of MMA fighters who are going to die go to prison or will be on the street, homeless, largely due to the culture. of drugs, abuse, head trauma, terrible pay or mismanagement, and mental health issues.   We're already starting to see it.    For me personally, I wish Cejudo would have stayed clear of this dirty game.   

 

Yes I was there when Cejudo nearly ripped Abas knee out and won the Olympic berth.    Big fan of both and happy Abas is not in MMA.   

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If you're referring to Brink, that guy is a POS.  There's lousy people like him involved in every sport.  I think part of the problem is that MMA was in the beginning heavily intertwined with a lot of guys who came up doing traditional martial arts that are ineffective from a technical standpoint like karate.  And as we know people in the traditional martial arts world are notorious for being scam artists, shysters, grifters, etc.  So when those guys realized MMA was the next big thing or that was where things were heading, they latched onto it because they knew their thing was going extinct.  I can think of one place that was a karate studio nearby where I lived, and they offered to teach MMA.  I actually went and signed up for a "free" class and the guy who was teaching had no idea what he was doing.  Of course now everybody is an expert or has "BJJ" or "MMA" or something in their gym now, and with the ease you can get an online certification from the Gracies or whatever, it just waters it down.  If you were around back in the old days here, there were literally like 5 places to go legitimately train MMA.  Now there's a place on every corner practically. 

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Either way Trip, 

 

You have my apology.   My comments offended you, and I apologize. 

 

Did you ever meet Kevin Randleman?   Sweetest guy I have ever met.   A stone cold killer/sweet as apple pie.   

 

He's dead now.   There is an entire generation of MMA fighters who are going to die go to prison or will be on the street, homeless, largely due to the culture. of drugs, abuse, head trauma, terrible pay or mismanagement, and mental health issues.   We're already starting to see it.    For me personally, I wish Cejudo would have stayed clear of this dirty game.   

 

Yes I was there when Cejudo nearly ripped Abas knee out and won the Olympic berth.    Big fan of both and happy Abas is not in MMA.   

 

That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.

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That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.

 

 

You make some compelling points.  

 

Perhaps we should wish our guys didn't go into MMA or the NFL.  

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There's cultures like that in any sport where there's things at stake.  The only advantage the NFL has, at least now, is they have a union, and they are working towards providing ex players with help as far as health care costs associated with their playing days.  So the NFL can't screw guys over as badly.  MMA has none of those safe guards.  If you're in the UFC and you get hit in the head too much and can't fight anymore, or suffer some other kind of career ending injury, they aren't obligated to do anything for you.  Your health care comes out of your pocket, you get no pension, and if you don't have a big name you can't make a living really coaching anyone.  The UFC and other big promotions will just use you and spit you out and maybe if they like you, they'll give you a job like they did with Matt Hughes. 

 

It was like that in professional wrestling for a long time and probably still is.  Why do you think so many famous pro wrestlers died early?  I was just reading an article the other day about how one Canadian wrestler was at the end of his career but wanted to maintain his fast lifestyle, so he turned to organized crime, wound up getting shot in the head 7 times because his competitors didn't appreciate him undercutting them. 

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That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.

Trip, the point I (and some people other than the guy you are responding to) was making is that when you do MMA, long term brain damage is a very real possibility.  It is possible in wrestling as well, but much less likely.  Will it happen to everyone who participates?  Absolutely not.  However, we don't know how many guys will be afflicted by it yet because the sport is so young.  There are some absolutely brutal knockouts with knees, kicks, etc.  Unlike most concussions in wrestling, just one really bad knockout can have a life-long impact, depending on how your body responds.

 

Our brains are not good at dealing with protein aggregation brought on by trauma.  Trauma (either repeated or a single impact) begins the process of CTE, but as you age, the aggregates only get larger and the symptoms only get worse.  Some people have worse symptoms than others, but it all depends on the individual and extent of damage.   

 

I like football, MMA, hockey, and other violent sports. I also have respect for the guys who choose to participate in them...I just think it's a bad idea to encourage wrestlers to do MMA as the next step in their athletic career.  The sport has essentially become a freak show where the most popular athletes are guys like Mcgregor and Diaz who hype up their fights and stand and exchange brutal shots for 25 minutes.  The wrestlers who go into it need to know that their wrestling will only take them so far (generally to a mid-tier UFC fighter with a 40-50K pay day per fight).  Long-term, the prospects of an ex-wrestler getting into teaching and coaching are much better than fighting (on average).  Using a degree to go into business/law/medicine or some other lucrative career is undoubtedly better financially (on average). We need to encourage wrestlers to use their education...Those who really have a passion to become great at MMA will find their way into the sport anyway.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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You are cherry picking examples.  I am sure all of us remember people getting knocked out in the wrestling room too.  I remember the special "stormtrooper" headgear 2 of my teammates had to wear because of concussion problems.  I remember guys wearing masks to protect their broken noses or shattered orbital bones.  I remember a teammate posting on a mat return and destroying his arm.  I won't get into details but it was disgusting and he never wrestled again despite a promising start in college.  I remember seeing at least 2 other people taken off to the ambulance after unfortunate accidents (one going head first into a gymnasium wall a few feet out of bounds and the other with a neck injury following a brutal head and arm).  Wrestling is dangerous too.  

 

Dada5000 should not be included in any serious discussion regarding MMA.  He is a street brawler, not an athlete.  Struve's anxiety may or may not have anything to do with prior knockouts.  Some guys suffer from performance anxiety, and after a string of losses, he was fighting for his job.  GSP has stated multiple times that his problems were stress related.  The rigour of the promotion is allegedly what caused his problems.  Maybe you know something he doesn't.   He is not the first person to hate promoting fights though.  ROnda ROusey briefly considered suicide but there is absolutely no proof that had anything to do with concussion symptoms and more to do with self imposed expectations and a self image too influenced by what the media and promotion made her out to be.  Junior Dos Santos took an absolute beating.  I agree with you on that one.  Diego Sanchez made little sense at the start of his career.  The guy was and is nuts but he too, has taken some beatings.  That is his style though. I will give you one you failed to include: Josh Koscheck.  He has suffered some brutal knockouts.   

 

MMA is a great sport.  I can totally understand why someone would want to give it a shot regardless of the dangers.  It isn't exactly boxing and one can use wrestling effectively to prevent exchanges that lead to long term damage if they can impose their will.   Everyone wants to challenge themselves in different ways.  Clearly you don't get the appeal of MMA but that doesn't make it any less appealing to others who do.      

 

 

Here,

 

thought Id cherry pick some more

 

and what does cherry picking even mean?   These are examples of guys who are suffering from head trauma.   Were you expecting i would also list guys who are not suffering from head trauma?   

 

 

 

UFC fan favorite Tom Lawlor

 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/Lawlor-suffering-from-alarming-symptom-457028

 

 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/NSAC-to-require-fighter-participation-in-brain-study-457008

 

Explain it away any way you wise, head trauma related issues are a big problem in MMA.   It's a barbaric spectacle where two competitors are locked in a cage, and they fight until one cannot continue or until one is forced to quit from too much pain.  Punches, elbows, knees, and kicks are not only allowed to the head, they are encouraged.    It is a dirty, dirty, sport, with some of the most unethical and and lacking integrity individuals in all of sports, from the very top, all the way down to the entry level.     

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ESPN posted an article the other day about Henry Cejudo... apparently he was in a Santa Rosa hotel when the wildfires reached the building in the middle of the night, and he had to jump out of a second story window to escape.  He made it out OK, but his Olympic medal was left behind in the fire. Hopefully it will be recovered and returned.

 

Cejudo is also donating his UFC bonus money to the California wildfire victims.

 

 

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/21014832/ufc-henry-cejudo-recounts-harrowing-experience-jumping-second-story-window-escape-california-wildfires

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/21015485/henry-cejudo-donate-ufc-218-bonus-money-behalf-california-fire-victims

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ESPN posted an article the other day about Henry Cejudo... apparently he was in a Santa Rosa hotel when the wildfires reached the building in the middle of the night, and he had to jump out of a second story window to escape.  He made it out OK, but his Olympic medal was left behind in the fire. Hopefully it will be recovered and returned.

 

Cejudo is also donating his UFC bonus money to the California wildfire victims.

 

 

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/21014832/ufc-henry-cejudo-recounts-harrowing-experience-jumping-second-story-window-escape-california-wildfires

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/21015485/henry-cejudo-donate-ufc-218-bonus-money-behalf-california-fire-victims

WOW.  Glad to hear he is ok.  This is reminiscent of some of Rulon's near-death experiences. Moral of the story:  Do not ignore fire alarms!

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WOW. Glad to hear he is ok. This is reminiscent of some of Rulon's near-death experiences. Moral of the story: Do not ignore fire alarms!

Wild fires are an experience, unless you have seen it, bad decisions are common. Pretty sure Henry won't make that mistake again. I have a briefcase with all important papers ready to go. Cat carrier at the ready. A leash for the dog, and know all the escape routes. They can be on you so fast. Especially if you are on the ridge of a canyon, on a slope, or in a canyon. If you smell smoke you pay attention. That comes before any warnings. Edited by sgallan

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Either way Trip, 

 

You have my apology.   My comments offended you, and I apologize. 

 

Did you ever meet Kevin Randleman?   Sweetest guy I have ever met.   A stone cold killer/sweet as apple pie.   

 

He's dead now.   There is an entire generation of MMA fighters who are going to die go to prison or will be on the street, homeless, largely due to the culture. of drugs, abuse, head trauma, terrible pay or mismanagement, and mental health issues.   We're already starting to see it.    For me personally, I wish Cejudo would have stayed clear of this dirty game.   

 

Yes I was there when Cejudo nearly ripped Abas knee out and won the Olympic berth.    Big fan of both and happy Abas is not in MMA.   

 

There is always the National Felons League if you are bigger or fast with good hands.

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Wild fires are an experience, unless you have seen it, bad decisions are common. Pretty sure Henry won't make that mistake again. I have a briefcase with all important papers ready to go. Cat carrier at the ready. A leash for the dog, and know all the escape routes. They can be on you so fast. Especially if you are on the ridge of a canyon, on a slope, or in a canyon. If you smell smoke you pay attention. That comes before any warnings.

Glad that I have never been in the situation Cejudo just went through.  It will be helpful when he goes around giving motivational talks again after finishing with MMA.  He can throw in a fire safety message that might be able to save lives (don't ignore fire alarms, immediately evacuate).  

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I live in Cali (not right now, but born and raised), and never been in a wildfire before fortunately, but they ARE scary fast in how they spread. I heard you look out to the horizon, a wildfire can look to be faint like you have time to pack and get out, and the next minute it's around you. It's incredible how far a single ember can fly off to and spread.

 

Cejudo also had to jump out from the 2nd floor and broke his ankle or something, and he's still on deck to fight next month. Respect!

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