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#21 newyorkwrestler

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 05:56 PM

why is training with world champion muay thai fighters a mistake? 



#22 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 05:56 PM

Mexicans wrestlers in MMA are nit good amigo! not good :D 

 

UFC Champions of Mexican descent. 

 

HWT Cain Valazquez, Ricco Rodriguez

 

LHW Tito Ortiz

 

But better than MMA fighters, Mexicans make good farm hands.    I have 23 Mexicans on the farm, and we're all voting for Donald Trump.   


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#23 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 06:04 PM

So what's the alternative for Cejudo?  He already won the biggest tournament there is to win in wrestling.  He has made a lot of money from endorsements and other things, he graduated from college, what else is he supposed to do?  He's a competitor.  He's only got a limited amount of time, it's not like he could walk back out and compete again in 15 years.  Why are you disappointed?  Because he's not wrestling anymore?  He's doing what he wants to do with the skills he has. 

 

I know you have a strong bias against MMA because you've said it's a breeding ground for gay behavior, or some such other bull****.  People like you are what's wrong with wrestling. 

 

 

Are you gay, Trip?   Don't answer if you rather not, but I ask because I'm wondering if I may have been out of line, specifically with you.   You've  really taken this personal.   If I offended you, I want to apologize.   I was candid in relating some of the acts I've seen in MMA, and it seems to have really rubbed you wrong.   I don't care one way or the other, if that's your thing.   I personally am not affected by it, but if this is bothering you, I don't want that to go on any further.    I'd rather apologize to you right here in public, since my comments were public, but if you're rather PM me, I'm open to that too.   

 

As for Cejudo, yes it's disappointing a guy with so many other avenues, resorts to fist fighting in a cage, for peanuts.   Did you see him on Saturday night, laying there in agony, humbled and defeated?  As a fan of his, it disappoints me that's what he has become.    Please don't take that part, personal as well.    



#24 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 06:09 PM

why is training with world champion muay thai fighters a mistake?

Because he needs a lot of (submission) Grappling training. His better weapon is wrestling and after a takedown you can end the fight with a submission. He is a strong wrestler without ko power...the same situation of Nurmagomedov. Cejudo's takedown from the clinch was effective but he refuse to fighting on the ground.

Edited by WreslingSuperior, 25 April 2016 - 06:12 PM.


#25 TripNSweep

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 07:12 PM

Are you gay, Trip?   Don't answer if you rather not, but I ask because I'm wondering if I may have been out of line, specifically with you.   You've  really taken this personal.   If I offended you, I want to apologize.   I was candid in relating some of the acts I've seen in MMA, and it seems to have really rubbed you wrong.   I don't care one way or the other, if that's your thing.   I personally am not affected by it, but if this is bothering you, I don't want that to go on any further.    I'd rather apologize to you right here in public, since my comments were public, but if you're rather PM me, I'm open to that too.   

 

As for Cejudo, yes it's disappointing a guy with so many other avenues, resorts to fist fighting in a cage, for peanuts.   Did you see him on Saturday night, laying there in agony, humbled and defeated?  As a fan of his, it disappoints me that's what he has become.    Please don't take that part, personal as well.    

 

Not that it's any of your business, but no.  I think it's a stupid comment that you've based on a handful of experiences and has obviously shaped your bias against the sport.  As for whether it causes injuries or not, any combat sport does.  I've had more serious injuries from wrestling than I have from MMA, and since you apparently know me, you obviously know I've competed in both.  Any apology from you is going to be hollow.  You have your opinions, which are wrong and based on a few instances of people who live that way or whatever you want to call it.  Based on my experiences, since I don't know you, or if I do correct me, but I've seen very few instances of anything "gay" occurring in the MMA world. 

 

So what if Henry lost?  Are you going to take issue with people who cry after losing a wrestling match curled up and defeated because they don't like the fact they lost?  I can think of plenty of wrestlers who've done that.  Maybe they just should do something else since they apparently can't handle defeat or being embarrassed by losing. 


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Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#26 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 09:34 PM

The difference between mma and wrestling in term of injuries is simple. mma injuries are permanents.

#27 ironmonkey

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:21 AM

false.  That is not the difference.  

 

Everyone I wrestled with in college has bum shoulders, knees and/or neck problems.  Those injuries are permanent and get worse each year as the arthritis sets in.  



#28 Plasmodium

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:47 AM

The difference is brain injuries.



#29 TripNSweep

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:49 AM

The difference between mma and wrestling in term of injuries is simple. mma injuries are permanents.

 

One of my high school teammates who was a multiple time state champion has shoulder problems that will never go away.  He didn't even wrestle in college either.  I can think of many others I know from wrestling who have injuries that will never quite heal up or be the same.  MMA carries roughly the same risk, but it is true that the risk for a catastrophic brain injury is much higher because you're dealing with being punched or kicked in the face. 


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#30 Axe_Spartan

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:58 AM

The Cejudo's way to win is called wrestling + grappling. He has also boxing experience but without ko power striking isn't the best weapon.
I'm surprise about his coaching staff. He needs the best in the business with top sparring partners.
He spent a lot of time at Evolve with multi time muay thai world champions...this is the mistake.


You can very well be a really good striker without KO power. He told the media his plan was to use the clinch and slowly wrestle Demetrious (he was confident he was going to dominate the clinch because of his wrestling background), he was caught by a knee on the midsection and that was it. Training Muay Thai at Evolve had nothing to do with it, he just wants to improve his MMA game, it's not like he wants to become a striker.

Edited by Axe_Spartan, 26 April 2016 - 04:06 AM.

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#31 GoNotQuietly

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 04:15 AM

Cejudo was fighting one of the top 3, and arguably the best, pound for pound fighter on the face of the Earth.  There is simply no good way to prepare for the kind of laser precision aim and constant danger mighty mouse can get you in.  There is no strategy that he could have switched to at any point which would have made him any other than a huge underdog in this fight.  Saying that he shouldn't fight because the best there is laid him out seems like a stretch to me, but I wouldn't fault him at all for retiring at this point, having made a nice run at the title and probably a fair amount of dough along the way.



#32 LJB

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:40 AM

trip, i think piggie is looking for a love connection... let him down easy... it is obvious he is walking a tightrope...



#33 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:18 AM

MMA has an higher % of injuries than wrestling. You must add a lot of dangerous head trauma before and after a ko with long term effects...

Edited by WreslingSuperior, 26 April 2016 - 06:22 AM.


#34 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:20 AM

You can very well be a really good striker without KO power. He told the media his plan was to use the clinch and slowly wrestle Demetrious (he was confident he was going to dominate the clinch because of his wrestling background), he was caught by a knee on the midsection and that was it. Training Muay Thai at Evolve had nothing to do with it, he just wants to improve his MMA game, it's not like he wants to become a striker.

Yes but if you haven't ko power the submission way is a priority. Nurmagomedov is a good example of successful wrestler with a very effective ground game. He is the best in his weight class...

#35 Axe_Spartan

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 09:19 AM

Yes but if you haven't ko power the submission way is a priority.

 

I don't agree, but I understand your way of thought.


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#36 NJWC

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 11:26 AM

CT, why do you still end so much time trolling on this site, going so far as to create an alternative persona? Have you no life at all?

#37 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 12:22 PM

Not that it's any of your business, but no.  I think it's a stupid comment that you've based on a handful of experiences and has obviously shaped your bias against the sport.  As for whether it causes injuries or not, any combat sport does.  I've had more serious injuries from wrestling than I have from MMA, and since you apparently know me, you obviously know I've competed in both.  Any apology from you is going to be hollow.  You have your opinions, which are wrong and based on a few instances of people who live that way or whatever you want to call it.  Based on my experiences, since I don't know you, or if I do correct me, but I've seen very few instances of anything "gay" occurring in the MMA world. 

 

So what if Henry lost?  Are you going to take issue with people who cry after losing a wrestling match curled up and defeated because they don't like the fact they lost?  I can think of plenty of wrestlers who've done that.  Maybe they just should do something else since they apparently can't handle defeat or being embarrassed by losing. 

 

 

You're being intentionally obtuse, pretending you don't know brain injuries are far more severe than joint injuries.   You've also created a strawman for this  being about embarrassing losses, when the point i made is about devastating physical trauma, related, losses.    I've been to Arizona and oversaw workouts in your town.   Your gym, actually.   Ever hear of a  guy named Dewey Cooper?  Of course you have.  Mark Kerr?   I've seen you train.   Lots of heart and desire, no question there.   But because you haven't seen what I've seen., now it's not so?  

 

I can't tell you what the small time is like, but I can tell you at the highest levels, the MMA game is as dirty as boxing.   It's just something I don't wish for you, let alone our Olympic Champions.  Be glad you never made it.   It was down right heartbreaking to see Henry laying there, taking a beating.   I much would have rather seen him delivering a paid speaking for a fortune 500 company.   Or read about his recent real estate endeavors.  Fist fights inside a steel cage and getting annihilated inside of 3 minutes?   Any bum off the streets can do that.   

 

We know Henry wanted to do it.  No we don't think he was blackmailed into the UFC.    It's still a shame, no matter how dumb you may play.   You may have been thrilled to see it.   I wish I could wipe it from my memory.   



#38 PSUMike

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:46 PM

I'm about as big of an MMA fan as I am a wrestling fan and follow it as closely, if not closer (a hell of a lot closer than I do international wrestling). Cejudo is a wrestler who can kind of box. Johnson is a complete MMA fighter. Cejudo never had a shot in hell at holding DJ down. DJ is an exceptional scrambler. Cejudo didn't not keep him on the mat not because he was afraid of submissions. DJ doesn't have a potent guard game. He didn't hold him down because he couldn't. DJ got butterfly guard, created distance, and neutralized any offense Cejudo could muster. It was a squash match at this point in Cejudo's career, plain and simple. He's not ready for DJ, or Benevidez, or even McCall at this stage of his development. Dodson would flatline him faster than DJ did. He needs time. He has a ton of potential on his wrestling ability alone but the rest of his game needs to develop before he can seriously contend for a title.



#39 PSUMike

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 01:53 PM

The difference is brain injuries.

 

Outside of Goodridge (who I doubt you even know who he is based on this level of ignorance and most of his issues are from kickboxing anyway), please enlighten me as to all these MMA fighters with permanent brain injuries. I'll wait. 



#40 quanon

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:06 PM

Outside of Goodridge (who I doubt you even know who he is based on this level of ignorance and most of his issues are from kickboxing anyway), please enlighten me as to all these MMA fighters with permanent brain injuries. I'll wait. 

It takes time (decades) for many of the effects of traumatic brain injury to reveal themselves.  Look at the NFL.

 

Taking lots of blows to the head is probably not a good idea for your health, long-term.  I doubt getting blood choked is good for you either.


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