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#41 PSUMike

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 02:26 PM

It takes time (decades) for many of the effects of traumatic brain injury to reveal themselves.  Look at the NFL.

 

Taking lots of blows to the head is probably not a good idea for your health, long-term.  I doubt getting blood choked is good for you either.

 

BJJ has been around for over a century. Submissions date back to pankration. Outside of someone intentionally holding a choke for too long, I've yet to EVER hear of an issue as a result of a blood choke. Obviously, getting punched in the face isn't good for you. But, the inherent risk is grossly exaggerated as it pertains to MMA. Outside of the Travis Fulton, Jeremy Horn, Shannon Ritch style journeymen, very, very few fighters actually have the number of fights to really deal that potential for long term damage; especially with the current movement that is moving away from live sparring to a more safe style of training (read up on Hendricks' position on this if you're unfamiliar). 



#42 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:32 PM

And Trip,

 

look up guys like

 

Diego Sanchez, slurring his words

 

George Sullivan, memory loss

 

Junior Dos Santos, can't remember his championship fight against Cain Valasquez

 

Ronda Rousey, no memory of the bout she was destroyed in by Holly Holm, suicide thoughts

 

TJ Grant, reoccurring concussion symptoms

 

Gary Goodrich, diagnosed with dementia pugilistica

 

George St Pierre once eluded to sleeplessness, blurred vision, and a feeling of going crazy, in a post bout interview

 

Chuck Liddell several successive KO's where he had his toes stiffened and left postured up, while unconscious, slurs even when he's rarely sober.

 

Stephan Struve had to be pulled from a bout as he was overcome with anxiety.   He too has been put to sleep several times, inside the octagon.   

 

Joao Carvaho died a couple weeks ago from the beating he took inside the cage

 

Dada5000 was nearly killed in his MMA bout last month against street fighting legend, Kimbo Slice.  He was hospitalized for 3 weeks

 

 

 

This is the aspect of MMA I don't like and why I am disappointed Cejudo went this route.   The above, just off the top of my head, you could probably google 100 other examples, if you're not already keenly aware of this.   The Olympic champion is far too good for the barbaric spectacle of cage fighting.   That's my take.   That's my problem with it, and yes we know he wants to do it, we get it.   



#43 TripNSweep

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:05 PM

You're being intentionally obtuse, pretending you don't know brain injuries are far more severe than joint injuries.   You've also created a strawman for this  being about embarrassing losses, when the point i made is about devastating physical trauma, related, losses.    I've been to Arizona and oversaw workouts in your town.   Your gym, actually.   Ever hear of a  guy named Dewey Cooper?  Of course you have.  Mark Kerr?   I've seen you train.   Lots of heart and desire, no question there.   But because you haven't seen what I've seen., now it's not so?  

 

I can't tell you what the small time is like, but I can tell you at the highest levels, the MMA game is as dirty as boxing.   It's just something I don't wish for you, let alone our Olympic Champions.  Be glad you never made it.   It was down right heartbreaking to see Henry laying there, taking a beating.   I much would have rather seen him delivering a paid speaking for a fortune 500 company.   Or read about his recent real estate endeavors.  Fist fights inside a steel cage and getting annihilated inside of 3 minutes?   Any bum off the streets can do that.   

 

We know Henry wanted to do it.  No we don't think he was blackmailed into the UFC.    It's still a shame, no matter how dumb you may play.   You may have been thrilled to see it.   I wish I could wipe it from my memory.   

 

Yeah I know who Cooper is and way back in the day I trained a few times at Kerr's spot in Phoenix.  And yes head injuries are more serious than a knee or a shoulder, but I guess it depends what you consider serious or not.  Up until the last few years nobody really thought concussions were serious.  I hate to sound old fashioned, but the guys who I came up wrestling and doing MMA with I'm sure there were a lot of unknown concussions or other injuries.  Not that they didn't happen, but it just wasn't perceived as being a serious problem.  I've probably had a few that weren't diagnosed.  I'm almost positive I got one in an MMA fight in Mexico.  Of the guys who I remember who took MMA a step further, I don't think any of them have any real adverse medical problems.  Riggs is still competing and now given the scrutiny the promotions are under I don't think they'd let you compete unless they made damn sure you were OK.  Back in the pre sanctioned days though you're right, it was a free for all with not much emphasis on that kind of injury.  Times have changed, so I don't think any promotion wants the bad publicity of letting a guy fight who might end up dead in the cage.  One of the guys I was helping train got knocked out horribly last year and the Arizona Commission refused to let him fight again, not because of repeated knockouts, since he'd only been knocked out 3 times in 8 years, but because he basically didn't mind being punched in the head a lot, would gladly take 3 to get his 1.  The commission was really uncomfortable with him doing that, and adding to that was he flat out told one of the commissioners that he didn't care if he died in the cage.  But as far as I know even with the repeated head trauma, he's suffered no ill effects even though he's been in some absolute wars, and not with local tough guys, but guys who've been in UFC, Bellator, WSOF, etc.  Usually taking them to a decision, so it's not as if he was getting steamrolled really. 

 

If it hurts you to watch guys lose then don't watch.  People lose in all kinds of combat sports.  I've seen plenty of guys get hurt at grappling tournaments.  Hell I even saw Henry's brother hurt a guy (by accident) his senior year of wrestling.  They had to take the kid away on a stretcher.  Cejudo could do those other things, but he apparently doesn't want to or figures he can do something else athletically.  I don't see him playing in the NFL or anything, so if he is going to continue on and hope to make a living at it, MMA is basically it.  It's hard to watch guys you're a fan of lose, but you have to know that can happen in anything.  If you're a fan of Stephen Abas, do you think it was a good idea for him to try to wrestle for the spot in 2008 only to have Cejudo injure him further and beat him for the spot? 

 

Also I find it strange that I've only encountered maybe one guy who acted or was kind of somewhat open about his personal life in MMA, but you've apparently seen it a lot more times than I have.  Maybe I was just training at the right place?  I remember one guy used to come around and I'm pretty sure he was gay.  He never made me feel uncomfortable or anything, but oh well.  I figured if he'd ever tried to grab or touch anyone they'd have hurt him or something.  I don't think it's a widespread problem like you say it is.  It's definitely not indicative of the kinds of people in MMA. 


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#44 ironmonkey

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:19 PM

You are cherry picking examples.  I am sure all of us remember people getting knocked out in the wrestling room too.  I remember the special "stormtrooper" headgear 2 of my teammates had to wear because of concussion problems.  I remember guys wearing masks to protect their broken noses or shattered orbital bones.  I remember a teammate posting on a mat return and destroying his arm.  I won't get into details but it was disgusting and he never wrestled again despite a promising start in college.  I remember seeing at least 2 other people taken off to the ambulance after unfortunate accidents (one going head first into a gymnasium wall a few feet out of bounds and the other with a neck injury following a brutal head and arm).  Wrestling is dangerous too.  

 

Dada5000 should not be included in any serious discussion regarding MMA.  He is a street brawler, not an athlete.  Struve's anxiety may or may not have anything to do with prior knockouts.  Some guys suffer from performance anxiety, and after a string of losses, he was fighting for his job.  GSP has stated multiple times that his problems were stress related.  The rigour of the promotion is allegedly what caused his problems.  Maybe you know something he doesn't.   He is not the first person to hate promoting fights though.  ROnda ROusey briefly considered suicide but there is absolutely no proof that had anything to do with concussion symptoms and more to do with self imposed expectations and a self image too influenced by what the media and promotion made her out to be.  Junior Dos Santos took an absolute beating.  I agree with you on that one.  Diego Sanchez made little sense at the start of his career.  The guy was and is nuts but he too, has taken some beatings.  That is his style though. I will give you one you failed to include: Josh Koscheck.  He has suffered some brutal knockouts.   

 

MMA is a great sport.  I can totally understand why someone would want to give it a shot regardless of the dangers.  It isn't exactly boxing and one can use wrestling effectively to prevent exchanges that lead to long term damage if they can impose their will.   Everyone wants to challenge themselves in different ways.  Clearly you don't get the appeal of MMA but that doesn't make it any less appealing to others who do.      


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#45 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 09:30 PM

The game plan was terrible. Cejudo has a great wrestling and his coaching staff opted for a striking battle. I'm agree about the lack of mma experience respect his opponent but the strategy..

#46 NJWC

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:07 AM

I wrestled for about 17 years, boxed for 5. Trained in bjj and competed in grappling another 6. By far, my worst injuries are wrestling related.

#47 GoNotQuietly

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 01:16 AM

Cletus -just curious-do you feel the same way about watching football, soccer, rugby, lacrosse, etc. ?  Because a guy standing in front of you can only hit you so hard, but the head trauma when you increase the number of high velocity moving pieces can be extreme.  I currently work with a girl who suffered 4 concussions between high school and college from playing volleyball. 



#48 quanon

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 01:32 AM

BJJ has been around for over a century. Submissions date back to pankration. Outside of someone intentionally holding a choke for too long, I've yet to EVER hear of an issue as a result of a blood choke. Obviously, getting punched in the face isn't good for you. But, the inherent risk is grossly exaggerated as it pertains to MMA. Outside of the Travis Fulton, Jeremy Horn, Shannon Ritch style journeymen, very, very few fighters actually have the number of fights to really deal that potential for long term damage; especially with the current movement that is moving away from live sparring to a more safe style of training (read up on Hendricks' position on this if you're unfamiliar). 

If blood chokes led to an increased risk of dementia later in life, would we know?  How would we know?  Have there been randomized studies?  My thinking is that cutting off the flow of blood (oxygen) to your brain, to the point that you lose consciousness, is not good for your brain.  Is it as bad as a concussion?  How many times can you do it without suffering serious effects?  Who knows?

 

You referred to Hendricks.  Robbie Lawler stopped sparring for six years because he sustained a serious concussion in practice: http://mmajunkie.com...sparring-policy .  I've read that Brock Lesnar's training partners were not allowed to hit him in the head.  I'm sure there are others.  Obviously they were concerned about the damage they sustained in practice, not just competitions.  The problem is, if you are not taking punches and kicks to the head in practice, is that really effective training?

 

How many concussions can you sustain without having serious long-term damage?  There are no concrete answers here.  I do know this -- if I had to choose between lifelong joint problems and lifelong brain problems, I know what I would choose.


#49 WreslingSuperior

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 02:27 AM

Ground and pound is a dangerous aspect especially a series of pounces to the head after a ko.
UWW Pankration ruleset ban gnp in the international competitions because IOC consider it too dangerous.

Edited by WreslingSuperior, 27 April 2016 - 02:28 AM.


#50 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:30 AM

Cletus -just curious-do you feel the same way about watching football, soccer, rugby, lacrosse, etc. ?  Because a guy standing in front of you can only hit you so hard, but the head trauma when you increase the number of high velocity moving pieces can be extreme.  I currently work with a girl who suffered 4 concussions between high school and college from playing volleyball. 

 

 

Football?  Soccer?  Rugby?   Lets be real.    

 

I am a giant fan of the gentlemen's sport of cricket.  I enjoy equestrian, wrestling, triathlon, track and field, swimming, and golf.   

 

The barbaric sports of punching people in the head, kicking them, spearing them, etc. I have little interest in.   Sure, I'll watch any sport on a Sunday afternoon (Gymnastics, ice skating, NACAR, etc.) what's the point?  



#51 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:35 AM

You are cherry picking examples.  I am sure all of us remember people getting knocked out in the wrestling room too.  I remember the special "stormtrooper" headgear 2 of my teammates had to wear because of concussion problems.  I remember guys wearing masks to protect their broken noses or shattered orbital bones.  I remember a teammate posting on a mat return and destroying his arm.  I won't get into details but it was disgusting and he never wrestled again despite a promising start in college.  I remember seeing at least 2 other people taken off to the ambulance after unfortunate accidents (one going head first into a gymnasium wall a few feet out of bounds and the other with a neck injury following a brutal head and arm).  Wrestling is dangerous too.  

 

Dada5000 should not be included in any serious discussion regarding MMA.  He is a street brawler, not an athlete.  Struve's anxiety may or may not have anything to do with prior knockouts.  Some guys suffer from performance anxiety, and after a string of losses, he was fighting for his job.  GSP has stated multiple times that his problems were stress related.  The rigour of the promotion is allegedly what caused his problems.  Maybe you know something he doesn't.   He is not the first person to hate promoting fights though.  ROnda ROusey briefly considered suicide but there is absolutely no proof that had anything to do with concussion symptoms and more to do with self imposed expectations and a self image too influenced by what the media and promotion made her out to be.  Junior Dos Santos took an absolute beating.  I agree with you on that one.  Diego Sanchez made little sense at the start of his career.  The guy was and is nuts but he too, has taken some beatings.  That is his style though. I will give you one you failed to include: Josh Koscheck.  He has suffered some brutal knockouts.   

 

MMA is a great sport.  I can totally understand why someone would want to give it a shot regardless of the dangers.  It isn't exactly boxing and one can use wrestling effectively to prevent exchanges that lead to long term damage if they can impose their will.   Everyone wants to challenge themselves in different ways.  Clearly you don't get the appeal of MMA but that doesn't make it any less appealing to others who do.      

 

 

Yo can excuse away any guy I list, that's not helping anything.   I made that list for Trip, in order to demonstrate why I dislike MMA, despite at one point being a highly sought after trainer.   I gave it up because I saw the dirtiness of the sport.   I didn't get into guys getting ripped off, the amount of drug use, (cheating, abuse, lies, etc.).   It's a barbaric, dangerous, dirty thing.    If I bother to google any names at all, I'll end up with a list of 50 guys, in 20 minutes.   What good does it do for me to list them, if you just tell us, well he should n't have been in there?   He was a reality star, he was a drunk, she has other issues, etc?   We can jut argue all day about how messed up the people in MMA are and MMA just attracts them, but in general it's as safe as combing your barbie dolls hair, and dressing them up in their pretty little dresses.   


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#52 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:39 AM

Yeah I know who Cooper is and way back in the day I trained a few times at Kerr's spot in Phoenix.  And yes head injuries are more serious than a knee or a shoulder, but I guess it depends what you consider serious or not.  Up until the last few years nobody really thought concussions were serious.  I hate to sound old fashioned, but the guys who I came up wrestling and doing MMA with I'm sure there were a lot of unknown concussions or other injuries.  Not that they didn't happen, but it just wasn't perceived as being a serious problem.  I've probably had a few that weren't diagnosed.  I'm almost positive I got one in an MMA fight in Mexico.  Of the guys who I remember who took MMA a step further, I don't think any of them have any real adverse medical problems.  Riggs is still competing and now given the scrutiny the promotions are under I don't think they'd let you compete unless they made damn sure you were OK.  Back in the pre sanctioned days though you're right, it was a free for all with not much emphasis on that kind of injury.  Times have changed, so I don't think any promotion wants the bad publicity of letting a guy fight who might end up dead in the cage.  One of the guys I was helping train got knocked out horribly last year and the Arizona Commission refused to let him fight again, not because of repeated knockouts, since he'd only been knocked out 3 times in 8 years, but because he basically didn't mind being punched in the head a lot, would gladly take 3 to get his 1.  The commission was really uncomfortable with him doing that, and adding to that was he flat out told one of the commissioners that he didn't care if he died in the cage.  But as far as I know even with the repeated head trauma, he's suffered no ill effects even though he's been in some absolute wars, and not with local tough guys, but guys who've been in UFC, Bellator, WSOF, etc.  Usually taking them to a decision, so it's not as if he was getting steamrolled really. 

 

If it hurts you to watch guys lose then don't watch.  People lose in all kinds of combat sports.  I've seen plenty of guys get hurt at grappling tournaments.  Hell I even saw Henry's brother hurt a guy (by accident) his senior year of wrestling.  They had to take the kid away on a stretcher.  Cejudo could do those other things, but he apparently doesn't want to or figures he can do something else athletically.  I don't see him playing in the NFL or anything, so if he is going to continue on and hope to make a living at it, MMA is basically it.  It's hard to watch guys you're a fan of lose, but you have to know that can happen in anything.  If you're a fan of Stephen Abas, do you think it was a good idea for him to try to wrestle for the spot in 2008 only to have Cejudo injure him further and beat him for the spot? 

 

Also I find it strange that I've only encountered maybe one guy who acted or was kind of somewhat open about his personal life in MMA, but you've apparently seen it a lot more times than I have.  Maybe I was just training at the right place?  I remember one guy used to come around and I'm pretty sure he was gay.  He never made me feel uncomfortable or anything, but oh well.  I figured if he'd ever tried to grab or touch anyone they'd have hurt him or something.  I don't think it's a widespread problem like you say it is.  It's definitely not indicative of the kinds of people in MMA. 

 

 

Either way Trip, 

 

You have my apology.   My comments offended you, and I apologize. 

 

Did you ever meet Kevin Randleman?   Sweetest guy I have ever met.   A stone cold killer/sweet as apple pie.   

 

He's dead now.   There is an entire generation of MMA fighters who are going to die go to prison or will be on the street, homeless, largely due to the culture. of drugs, abuse, head trauma, terrible pay or mismanagement, and mental health issues.   We're already starting to see it.    For me personally, I wish Cejudo would have stayed clear of this dirty game.   

 

Yes I was there when Cejudo nearly ripped Abas knee out and won the Olympic berth.    Big fan of both and happy Abas is not in MMA.   


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#53 TripNSweep

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:45 AM

If you're referring to Brink, that guy is a POS.  There's lousy people like him involved in every sport.  I think part of the problem is that MMA was in the beginning heavily intertwined with a lot of guys who came up doing traditional martial arts that are ineffective from a technical standpoint like karate.  And as we know people in the traditional martial arts world are notorious for being scam artists, shysters, grifters, etc.  So when those guys realized MMA was the next big thing or that was where things were heading, they latched onto it because they knew their thing was going extinct.  I can think of one place that was a karate studio nearby where I lived, and they offered to teach MMA.  I actually went and signed up for a "free" class and the guy who was teaching had no idea what he was doing.  Of course now everybody is an expert or has "BJJ" or "MMA" or something in their gym now, and with the ease you can get an online certification from the Gracies or whatever, it just waters it down.  If you were around back in the old days here, there were literally like 5 places to go legitimately train MMA.  Now there's a place on every corner practically. 


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Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#54 TripNSweep

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:53 AM

Either way Trip, 

 

You have my apology.   My comments offended you, and I apologize. 

 

Did you ever meet Kevin Randleman?   Sweetest guy I have ever met.   A stone cold killer/sweet as apple pie.   

 

He's dead now.   There is an entire generation of MMA fighters who are going to die go to prison or will be on the street, homeless, largely due to the culture. of drugs, abuse, head trauma, terrible pay or mismanagement, and mental health issues.   We're already starting to see it.    For me personally, I wish Cejudo would have stayed clear of this dirty game.   

 

Yes I was there when Cejudo nearly ripped Abas knee out and won the Olympic berth.    Big fan of both and happy Abas is not in MMA.   

 

That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#55 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:16 AM

That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.

 

 

You make some compelling points.  

 

Perhaps we should wish our guys didn't go into MMA or the NFL.  


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#56 TripNSweep

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:34 AM

There's cultures like that in any sport where there's things at stake.  The only advantage the NFL has, at least now, is they have a union, and they are working towards providing ex players with help as far as health care costs associated with their playing days.  So the NFL can't screw guys over as badly.  MMA has none of those safe guards.  If you're in the UFC and you get hit in the head too much and can't fight anymore, or suffer some other kind of career ending injury, they aren't obligated to do anything for you.  Your health care comes out of your pocket, you get no pension, and if you don't have a big name you can't make a living really coaching anyone.  The UFC and other big promotions will just use you and spit you out and maybe if they like you, they'll give you a job like they did with Matt Hughes. 

 

It was like that in professional wrestling for a long time and probably still is.  Why do you think so many famous pro wrestlers died early?  I was just reading an article the other day about how one Canadian wrestler was at the end of his career but wanted to maintain his fast lifestyle, so he turned to organized crime, wound up getting shot in the head 7 times because his competitors didn't appreciate him undercutting them. 


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#57 Billyhoyle

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:41 AM

That was why I never took MMA that seriously, because it was a very long road with no guarantee and the money sucked.  I agree that guys who came up during the Randleman years were underpaid, but even though he might be dead what about guys like Tom Erickson?  He's doing fantastic now.  He had the same wear and tear, arguably even more because he spent a very long time trying to make an Olympic team. 

 

For every MMA fighter who you can name who's made poor choices to use drugs or wasn't smart about their future career options, there's a lot who haven't.  The same arguments you make could easily be made about the NFL.  I forget the exact % but a large number of retired players end up going broke after they're done playing.  And there's a culture that perpetuates drug use, has a ton of head trauma, mental health issues, and guys who don't have a real education.  Also MMA is a new sport, they aren't paying million dollar purses regularly to anyone.  My friend who I helped coach who got knocked out horribly in WSOF last year took home $750 for that fight which was on TV.  The lack of money going to the fighters top to bottom is more disturbing than anything else.

Trip, the point I (and some people other than the guy you are responding to) was making is that when you do MMA, long term brain damage is a very real possibility.  It is possible in wrestling as well, but much less likely.  Will it happen to everyone who participates?  Absolutely not.  However, we don't know how many guys will be afflicted by it yet because the sport is so young.  There are some absolutely brutal knockouts with knees, kicks, etc.  Unlike most concussions in wrestling, just one really bad knockout can have a life-long impact, depending on how your body responds.

 

Our brains are not good at dealing with protein aggregation brought on by trauma.  Trauma (either repeated or a single impact) begins the process of CTE, but as you age, the aggregates only get larger and the symptoms only get worse.  Some people have worse symptoms than others, but it all depends on the individual and extent of damage.   

 

I like football, MMA, hockey, and other violent sports. I also have respect for the guys who choose to participate in them...I just think it's a bad idea to encourage wrestlers to do MMA as the next step in their athletic career.  The sport has essentially become a freak show where the most popular athletes are guys like Mcgregor and Diaz who hype up their fights and stand and exchange brutal shots for 25 minutes.  The wrestlers who go into it need to know that their wrestling will only take them so far (generally to a mid-tier UFC fighter with a 40-50K pay day per fight).  Long-term, the prospects of an ex-wrestler getting into teaching and coaching are much better than fighting (on average).  Using a degree to go into business/law/medicine or some other lucrative career is undoubtedly better financially (on average). We need to encourage wrestlers to use their education...Those who really have a passion to become great at MMA will find their way into the sport anyway.  


Edited by Billyhoyle, 27 April 2016 - 04:42 AM.

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#58 Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:53 AM

cejudo vs Goygereev 
The opinions and views expressed in my posts, are intended to promote Russian international styles wrestling and international wrestling in general. Please excuse misspellings, misunderstandings, or misinterpretations. I am doing my very best to communicate in English, but it is a work in progress. I speak several languages, but I am still learning context, culture, and local tradition. I love USA and I am doing my best to be a great ambassador. Thank you for understanding.

#59 Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 02:00 AM

FB9g9uJx2VA.jpg


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The opinions and views expressed in my posts, are intended to promote Russian international styles wrestling and international wrestling in general. Please excuse misspellings, misunderstandings, or misinterpretations. I am doing my very best to communicate in English, but it is a work in progress. I speak several languages, but I am still learning context, culture, and local tradition. I love USA and I am doing my best to be a great ambassador. Thank you for understanding.

#60 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 04:15 AM

You are cherry picking examples.  I am sure all of us remember people getting knocked out in the wrestling room too.  I remember the special "stormtrooper" headgear 2 of my teammates had to wear because of concussion problems.  I remember guys wearing masks to protect their broken noses or shattered orbital bones.  I remember a teammate posting on a mat return and destroying his arm.  I won't get into details but it was disgusting and he never wrestled again despite a promising start in college.  I remember seeing at least 2 other people taken off to the ambulance after unfortunate accidents (one going head first into a gymnasium wall a few feet out of bounds and the other with a neck injury following a brutal head and arm).  Wrestling is dangerous too.  

 

Dada5000 should not be included in any serious discussion regarding MMA.  He is a street brawler, not an athlete.  Struve's anxiety may or may not have anything to do with prior knockouts.  Some guys suffer from performance anxiety, and after a string of losses, he was fighting for his job.  GSP has stated multiple times that his problems were stress related.  The rigour of the promotion is allegedly what caused his problems.  Maybe you know something he doesn't.   He is not the first person to hate promoting fights though.  ROnda ROusey briefly considered suicide but there is absolutely no proof that had anything to do with concussion symptoms and more to do with self imposed expectations and a self image too influenced by what the media and promotion made her out to be.  Junior Dos Santos took an absolute beating.  I agree with you on that one.  Diego Sanchez made little sense at the start of his career.  The guy was and is nuts but he too, has taken some beatings.  That is his style though. I will give you one you failed to include: Josh Koscheck.  He has suffered some brutal knockouts.   

 

MMA is a great sport.  I can totally understand why someone would want to give it a shot regardless of the dangers.  It isn't exactly boxing and one can use wrestling effectively to prevent exchanges that lead to long term damage if they can impose their will.   Everyone wants to challenge themselves in different ways.  Clearly you don't get the appeal of MMA but that doesn't make it any less appealing to others who do.      

 

 

Here,

 

thought Id cherry pick some more

 

and what does cherry picking even mean?   These are examples of guys who are suffering from head trauma.   Were you expecting i would also list guys who are not suffering from head trauma?   

 

 

 

UFC fan favorite Tom Lawlor

 

http://www.mixedmart...-symptom-457028

 

 

http://www.mixedmart...in-study-457008

 

Explain it away any way you wise, head trauma related issues are a big problem in MMA.   It's a barbaric spectacle where two competitors are locked in a cage, and they fight until one cannot continue or until one is forced to quit from too much pain.  Punches, elbows, knees, and kicks are not only allowed to the head, they are encouraged.    It is a dirty, dirty, sport, with some of the most unethical and and lacking integrity individuals in all of sports, from the very top, all the way down to the entry level.     


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