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LemonPie

Spencer Lee registered for Vegas...

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Is Lee even lifting yet? I'm not talking about rehab exercises with rubber bands. Is he going to failure on large compound movements? I highly doubt he's going heavy, if lifting seriously at all.

 

Why would you risk re-injury on the body's most fragile joint, the shoulder, literally months after you were cleared to compete again? What's the rush? Why does he have to prove anything to anybody? So that six or seven posters on this forum can call him one of the top 3 best ever in HS as opposed to one of the top 10?

 

The entire premise that he's running from competition is totally ridiculous. The kid just started going live a few months ago after an extended lay-off. The best way to re-injure the shoulder is to have someone 12 lbs heaver than you sprawl on it.

 

Lee is one of the few HS kids I follow pretty closely, and I do not ever remember anyone even mentioning anything negative about his world title or his size until he committed to Iowa. It's like a switch flipped on 4/20/2016. Unbelievable.

 

This. 

 

Lemonpie calls Lee's entering at 50kg a joke, something that undoubtedly had a lot to do with Lee deciding on Iowa. 

 

Lee is relatively small, and by most everything I've read, including CP,  he sounds like a smaller kid than Teasdale despite the HS weights that they wrestled at this past season. Different kids grow differently, and it sounds likely that Teasdale will wrestle at a heavier weight than Lee in college.

 

Lee had surgery for a torn labrum as most everyone knows. If he wants to wrestle at 50kg as he goes into FS, it's his call. 

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I'm looking forward to seeing how Lee looks out there, having had the injury and apparently now recovered.   I have to agree with the decision of avoiding 55 kg and Fix, who is just a monster, and probably licking his chops at the thought of another shot at Lee.    I agree with those who say there's no point for lee to try it.   What's he going to get out of it?    Risk far outweighs reward.    

 

I've already got my Vegas tickets and I'll be there seeing Lee live for the first time.   What a tournament it should be, given all the talent, across multiple weights

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I'm looking forward to seeing how Lee looks out there, having had the injury and apparently now recovered.   I have to agree with the decision of avoiding 55 kg and Fix, who is just a monster, and probably licking his chops at the thought of another shot at Lee.    I agree with those who say there's no point for lee to try it.   What's he going to get out of it?    Risk far outweighs reward.    

 

I've already got my Vegas tickets and I'll be there seeing Lee live for the first time.   What a tournament it should be, given all the talent, across multiple weights

Cletus you are the real Big Time Fan! I love the fact you go to so many events. I wish i could. One day. I think that Juniors is an amazing tournament and weight classes like 74kg in particular this year make it that much more amazing.

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I have very obviously asked the question of how meaningful a junior world title at 50kg is versus 55kg. I can also say that even though I concluded that it's not nearly as difficult to win a 50kg title as 55kg and that far fewer 50kg juniors go on to the highest levels of success at the seniors, it did not for one minute diminish my view that Lee is one of the most exciting prospects to come along. Like many of you I've followed Lee extensively for the past several years as he became more and more talked about on these boards. Like many of you I've been amazed at his intensity, his technique, his arm bar, leg lace and more. I was surprised when he lost to Fix and was impressed by Fix (more on Fix below). 

 

So here it is: Even if Lee were to move to 55kg and lose to Fix or make the team and not medal, it wouldn't change my mind about his future prospects. The reason why is because there are endless examples of truly successful NCAA wrestlers who never made the junior world team or who never medaled:

  • IMart never made the Junior World team. He got TECHED by Anthony Valencia TWICE in the finals of the Junior World Team Trials. This was during IMart's redshirt freshman year. Not only did IMart go on to be the first undefeated frosh champ since Cael, but Valencia didn't medal at junior worlds.
  • Mark Hall made the junior world team last year, the summer before his senior season. He also won junior nationals and bested a field that included Joe Smith, Chance Marstellar, Jason Nolf and Logan Massa. Mark teched Smith, teched and pinned Marstellar and soundly beat Nolf. He also didn't medal at junior worlds.
  • Myles Martin wrestled in junior nationals last year (I am not sure if he wrestled in the WTTs). Zahid Valencia who was a redshirt freshman teched Martin in the finals and eventually made the world team but did not medal. Myles went on to win the NCAAs.
  • Bo Nickal who beat Myles Martin three times last season before falling to him in the NCAA finals in March. Bo was first seed in NCAAs and 33-2 last year. Bo never made a junior world team (he lost to Gabe Dean in the finals of the WTTs two years ago and didn't wrestle last year).  
  • Nick Suriano simply hasn't wrestled in the juniors and isn't registered this year. We have no idea how he will do but while additional wins in different styles might indicate something, not going doesn't indicate anything.
  • Cael Sanderson was on the cadet world team twice. He placed third in 1994 at 55kg and fourth in 1995 at 65kg. At least according to the UWW Database. 

You get the idea. There are so many examples of really good freestylers and amazing NCAA champs who tried to make the team and didn't, made the team and didn't medal who ended up just fine. And of course to make the team as a rising senior is so rare to begin with that if he made the team at 55kg and didn't medal it wouldn't say a whole lot.

 

As a fan, of course I want to see a Fix-Lee rematch. As a fan I am disappointed just as I am very excited to be seeing a stacked 74kg field that promises all kinds of exciting matches. But as a fan I am disappointed that Bo Nickal has yet to register and hope he does or failing that I hope he enters the WTTs so we can see any of Martin-Nickals, Nickals-Z.Valencia. As a fan I am disappointed that Jason Nolf hasn't registered (is he eligible?). As a fan I am excited that Vincenzo Joseph is wrestling at 74kg as I'd like to see him and Hall square just as Hall and Nolf did last year before they knew they would be teammates. But as a person I and presumably everyone gets that Lee and every wrestler will make decisions that are best for themselves open tournaments and work to make the best decisions for their teams in team tournaments and duals. 

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Teasdale made 115 a little over a month ago.  I'm sure he weighs more than Spencer right now, but if don't tell me it's significant/growth muscle gain.  Yes, eventually it will be, right now that is just too short a time span.

 

Lee has a right to go any weight he wishes to.  I'm sure making the JR World Team is his goal (although it was pointed out he could have easily wrestled 55 here to face Fix and then gone 50 at the trials to make the team if need be).

 

The Iowa & PA guys (of which I am one of) are bending over backwards here though to find justifications for this decision.  But if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

 

I've commented more than once in the past year that I'd like to see Spencer Lee beat someone at a big boy's weight before I'm ready to proclaim him a 4x NC & potential GOAT.  Not his fault, but still the competition is much, much thinner where he resides and dominance is not always assured when you move up.  Some can, but some stumble a bit.

 

Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer...

 

So bitter. 

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So bitter. 

 

Bitter about what?  His decision to go to Iowa, lol?  That is actually a good decision on his part IMO.

 

Please check my posting history - I've been on record on this subject for a long time.

 

And for the record, I'm not saying that Lee is not going to be very good in college.  I would just like to see him wrestle some bigger and better competition before I'm ready to award him 4 NCs.  He's dominated what has been in front of him, which is all he can do.  I'd like to see him do the same at higher weights where the competition is better.  Not saying he can't, he just hasn't so far.  I've also seen some posts claiming he is the GOAT as a HS wrestler which is an absolute joke when you consider some of the elite competition that great HS wrestlers have defeated in the past.  He doesn't have a win that is even in the same stratosphere.

 

So what is the consensus here?  Too much risk of getting hurt against Fix or just helping out his buddy?

Edited by rickybobby

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Cletus you are the real Big Time Fan! I love the fact you go to so many events. I wish i could. One day. I think that Juniors is an amazing tournament and weight classes like 74kg in particular this year make it that much more amazing.

you really believe him?

 

that's rich...

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People who go on these message boards and say its a joke that a 16 or 17 year old kid didn't go a certain weight is ridiculous. It really shows you who isn't satisfied with their own wrestling career. Guys, this kid is a multiple time WORLD CHAMPIOIN! At any weight class this is a herculean feat. The sad thing is that the people on this message board are supposed to know more than the average joe about our sport..... yet somehow they don't understand how difficult it is to be a world champ at any weight.  

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People who go on these message boards and say its a joke that a 16 or 17 year old kid didn't go a certain weight is ridiculous. It really shows you who isn't satisfied with their own wrestling career. Guys, this kid is a multiple time WORLD CHAMPIOIN! At any weight class this is a herculean feat. The sad thing is that the people on this message board are supposed to know more than the average joe about our sport..... yet somehow they don't understand how difficult it is to be a world champ at any weight.  

Well said.

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LJB, I did really believe him. Are you saying he doesn't go to all the events he says? Am I missing something?

i believe very little of what he spouts... he is just a dude in love with his own internet persona... 

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Cletus you are the real Big Time Fan! I love the fact you go to so many events. I wish i could. One day. I think that Juniors is an amazing tournament and weight classes like 74kg in particular this year make it that much more amazing.

 

 

Hey thanks.  

 

I'm fortunate I have the time and resources to attend most of the events that truly interest me.   And Vegas has many of my other interests, thus it's a no brainer.   I've got friends in NC,  Philadelphia, Denver, Phoenix, Vegas, Tulsa, Dallas, California, so I make it into a trip where i get to see some of them as well.   I am slowing down though, so it makes it a little tough traveling across the country in my Winnebago, but I enjoy it.   I've already began mapping out my plan fro Rio (Flying there).   

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People who go on these message boards and say its a joke that a 16 or 17 year old kid didn't go a certain weight is ridiculous. It really shows you who isn't satisfied with their own wrestling career. Guys, this kid is a multiple time WORLD CHAMPIOIN! At any weight class this is a herculean feat. The sad thing is that the people on this message board are supposed to know more than the average joe about our sport..... yet somehow they don't understand how difficult it is to be a world champ at any weight.

Do u even sportz?

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You really think the Cletus guy is a pig farmer who hired Mexicans who'll vote for Trump and goes to every wrestling event? I have to believe you're not that stupid.

Keep in mind at one point he claimed to go to all these events but didn't see Brent Metcalf compete between 2010 and 2015.

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BigTimeFan -- wake up. Come on man. You're better than this.

Hey guys, you gotta lighten up. This is a board, if nom wants to be Santa Claus and nerd wants to be Tinkerbells, I believe him. I can't waste any precious brain cells thinking about something that has no consequence.

 

That said, if anyone started a betting pool I might think about it a little more carefully and come to a real conclusion :)

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BTF, I know a Nigerian prince who is looking for someone's bank account info so he can wire $29 million. He'll give you half of it if you help him flee his country. Are you down?

See that's my point. There's money involved, so I care. There's nothing at stake in the matter of Cletus vs the Board of Wrestling, so I'm not out anything believing him or not. Well except for the respect of my fellow board members. Unfortunate, but I will just have to live with it. 

Edited by BigTimeFan

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