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WRfan1

What about NAIA to freestyle

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It would seem that NAIA or NJCAA changing to freestyle could be the best of both worlds, leaving NCAA with folkstyle.  NAIA is growing and this would give athletes who want to train in freestyle the chance to do so and still be on a college team. As much as I enjoy it, I  think NCAA DI is headed in the wrong direction and will soon be a regional (midwestern and a few east coast schools) sport.  The real growth is coming at the NAIA level, and this could also help them be the sanctioning body for women's wrestling too.

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It is more accurate to say the programs that are adding the sport are those that put very little resources into the wrestling program and simply use it as an activity to attract students to pay them tuition.

 

There is nothing wrong with that, as it gives more opportunities for kids to compete while helping to fill out geographic areas that make other programs more viable. Very similar to the selling points of the NCWA programs.

 

You're not going to see any NAIA or NJCAA programs putting the resources into the programs that the upper half of D1 programs get and as a result you're not likely to get many programs with quality coaching that are able to lure kids away from going NCAA even if they do prefer Freestyle.

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That's an interesting idea.  The NAIA gives out scholarships, right?  Could they still if they switched to having freestyle or greco teams?

Yes, they do and they could. Of course, they would need to charge their members more in association fees to make that possible. Currently, the NAIA (and NJCAA) don't actually write their own sport specific rules.

 

If you look up the official NAIA rules for wrestling you will find the following: "The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Wrestling Rules and Interpretations will be followed."

 

It would be very hectic if they just defaulted to UWW and hoped that the rules were acceptable to them and that they wouldn't be in constant flux.

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Yes, they do and they could. Of course, they would need to charge their members more in association fees to make that possible. Currently, the NAIA (and NJCAA) don't actually write their own sport specific rules.

 

If you look up the official NAIA rules for wrestling you will find the following: "The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Wrestling Rules and Interpretations will be followed."

 

It would be very hectic if they just defaulted to UWW and hoped that the rules were acceptable to them and that they wouldn't be in constant flux.

Defaulting to UWW rules would be an intriguing idea, especially for athletes whose preferred styles are the international styles.

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it is not unprecedented, women wrestle free in college... they were not ham stringed by 100 years of history when those programs were being developed... they just did what made logical sense when creating the women's programs in college...

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NAIA men wrestle in a lot of NCAA opens so it is never going to happen.

 

You guys know what hey say about wishing in one hand and............................................

Would be much harder for the NAIA west coast programs to get matches without having to spend a lot of money.

 

https://batchgeo.com/map/c0e81f035bb980370884a6157e67ed9a

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NAIA men wrestle in a lot of NCAA opens so it is never going to happen.

 

You guys know what hey say about wishing in one hand and............................................

For decades Simon Fraser wrestled Freestyle in canada while competing in folkstyle in NAIA.    That issue alone wouldn't be prohibitive. 

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For decades Simon Fraser wrestled Freestyle in canada while competing in folkstyle in NAIA.    That issue alone wouldn't be prohibitive.

Could it be done? Yes.

 

Would it attract highly ranked recruits to forgo a Penn State, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Ohio State, or Iowa? Not likely.

 

Would it yield an improvement in the number of Olympic medals? Debatable.

 

Would NAIA school Presidents have any incentive to makes such a move? Debatable.

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For decades Simon Fraser wrestled Freestyle in canada while competing in folkstyle in NAIA.    That issue alone wouldn't be prohibitive. 

Re-read your statement very carefully and you'll see you are only repeating what I said. 

 

Wrestlers can do whatever they want when not in an NCAA sanctioned event but they only wrestle folkstyle in the NCAA and teams from DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, NCWA, and NJCC all end up at the same open tournaments all across the country. If the NAIA went freestyle they would have fewer events to choose from and would only be against NAIA schools. limiting there competition.

 

Unless all of college wrestling changed (which is not going to happen) the NAIA would not even consider it.  

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I think having a freestyle version of the Greco program at Northern Michigan would be the easiest option to implement- give students a 4 year college to attend while training freestyle full time and wrestling in USA Wrestling sanctioned events.  I assume they get scholarships there?

 

Not necessarily the same place/school but having a college or two with a freestyle program that competes outside the university. 

Edited by Gantry

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NAIA wrestlers could easily wrestle folk at other college tournaments. 

Down the road, if more FS/GR kids choose this route over DI, maybe we could get more mileage from the RTC program having it set up at places focusing solely on FS/GR.  

 

I see USA Wrestling and FS/GR in a state of regression the extent to which I haven't seen since I've been involved in the sport. DI feels like its fine with the sport essentially becoming the Big 10 and 3 or 4 other schools, and it makes me nervous for the future ( personally think the NCAA at-large process is dramatically hurting the West and small schools in the east, and is doing so to the detriment of the sport).   Maybe NAIA and/or NJCAA competing in FS for their national tourneys would create a spark, maybe not.  The fact many schools at that level have women's teams that wrestle FS makes me think it is not a bridge too far. 

 

NAIA was the level I wrestled in college, and would say that had I had the option to go free in NAIA or folk in D2/D3, I probably would've chosen FS. 

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Why talk about small subsets like NAIA (54 teams) and NJCAA (42 teams) when you could look towards the NCWA and their roughly 140 teams? I'd think if they began adopting Free and Greco , especially with that many teams (never mind the 27 women's teams in the NCWA), you'd have a lot of school funded programs from the NCAA, NAIA and NJCAA turning their heads and looking towards a sustainable future for the sport at that level.

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I love this idea and I believe it would create major excitement at the NAIA level!!! DO IT! Aaron Pico, Kamal Bey Mark Hall all training and competing in Freestyle and going to college AWESOME!!

Edited by rd149

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Why talk about small subsets like NAIA (54 teams) and NJCAA (42 teams) when you could look towards the NCWA and their roughly 140 teams? I'd think if they began adopting Free and Greco , especially with that many teams (never mind the 27 women's teams in the NCWA), you'd have a lot of school funded programs from the NCAA, NAIA and NJCAA turning their heads and looking towards a sustainable future for the sport at that level.

I think the biggest problem is that the NCWA is probably the one association with the fewest number of competitors that have experience in the Olympic Styles. In every state, the number of athletes that compete in the Olympic styles is a small subset of all high school competitors.

 

I am not sure how many of their coaches (or advisors) would be of any assistance in the styles either.

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I think the biggest problem is that the NCWA is probably the one association with the fewest number of competitors that have experience in the Olympic Styles. In every state, the number of athletes that compete in the Olympic styles is a small subset of all high school competitors.

 

I am not sure how many of their coaches (or advisors) would be of any assistance in the styles either.

 

Maybe and maybe not. How many DI head coaches would, right this moment, be competent senior level Freestyle or Greco coaches? You obviously have your Caels, Zekes, Smiths, Brandses, Kolls and some others, but when you begin looking at schools that are NOT in the B10 or B12, that's the majority of coaches at that level who most were not senior level athletes and don't coach those other styles/have said clubs attached to those teams. As we all know, that is a HUGE problem within this sport; too often we hear the mantra of, "he can't be a good coach because he never (insert the accolade)." I hear what you are saying and agree with you, but I think the same could be said for the DI programs too.

 

I often hear the "why change if it only benefits the top 1%?" Well, if we have more depth across the board, there's no telling who the top 1% will be because you'll end up with a lot more parity and opportunity, which does not really exist right now. Personally, I'd love for the United States to be able to have a team so deep that it resembles the old USSR teams or even the current Russian teams. With that, bring over some of the Cuban coaches, please!

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Maybe and maybe not. How many DI head coaches would, right this moment, be competent senior level Freestyle or Greco coaches? You obviously have your Caels, Zekes, Smiths, Brandses, Kolls and some others, but when you begin looking at schools that are NOT in the B10 or B12, that's the majority of coaches at that level who most were not senior level athletes and don't coach those other styles/have said clubs attached to those teams. As we all know, that is a HUGE problem within this sport; too often we hear the mantra of, "he can't be a good coach because he never (insert the accolade)." I hear what you are saying and agree with you, but I think the same could be said for the DI programs too.

 

I often hear the "why change if it only benefits the top 1%?" Well, if we have more depth across the board, there's no telling who the top 1% will be because you'll end up with a lot more parity and opportunity, which does not really exist right now. Personally, I'd love for the United States to be able to have a team so deep that it resembles the old USSR teams or even the current Russian teams. With that, bring over some of the Cuban coaches, please!

The biggest problem is that there is no incentive for the NAIA to make any changes. The biggest reason these programs sponsor the sport is to attract students. Frankly, they don't really care about the quality of the athlete and they would like to be able to most easily attract coaches (without having to spend a lot). Folkstyle is by far the best thing for NAIA programs.

 

The debate always seems to be from people that want to have colleges subsidize Olympic development. But there isn't much reason the colleges would want to do this.

 

As for the D1 programs, I am curious what programs don't have any experience with Freestyle. I am sure there are probably a lot more without Greco but I am sure the D1 has a lot more coaches with Freestyle experience than any other association.

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I'm not saying no experience, but limited when it comes to preparing guys for senior level, or even university level, and the coaching behind them. Sure, the kids themselves probably have a good amount of exposure during high school, but I can think of roughly a dozen schools off the top of my head that aren't putting forth a ton of effort in the international styles once NCAAs are over. Then again, most of the schools I'm thinking of, without calling anyone out, tend to hover near the bottom of the results list almost annually.

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The biggest problem is that there is no incentive for the NAIA to make any changes. The biggest reason these programs sponsor the sport is to attract students. Frankly, they don't really care about the quality of the athlete and they would like to be able to most easily attract coaches (without having to spend a lot). Folkstyle is by far the best thing for NAIA programs.

 

The debate always seems to be from people that want to have colleges subsidize Olympic development. But there isn't much reason the colleges would want to do this.

 

As for the D1 programs, I am curious what programs don't have any experience with Freestyle. I am sure there are probably a lot more without Greco but I am sure the D1 has a lot more coaches with Freestyle experience than any other association.

It is incredible how some act as if freestyle wrestling is some super secret mystical competition. 

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