Boise State Coach.....any word?

[Plasmodium 2,262]

Why would you say it wasn't a national search?

I t seemed awfully quick and the only names that I saw were Cherrington and Mendoza.  If they were committed to a change, they would have taken time and expended resources to attract and/or pursue a bigger pool of candidates.  I have nothing against the hire, I'm just wondering out loud if Boise State actually wants a change.

[IronChef 1,101]

I t seemed awfully quick and the only names that I saw were Cherrington and Mendoza.  If they were committed to a change, they would have taken time and expended resources to attract and/or pursue a bigger pool of candidates.  I have nothing against the hire, I'm just wondering out loud if Boise State actually wants a change.

April 18 - BSU announced Randall is not coming back

May 20 - Mendoza announced as head coach

 

How much time do you think this should have taken? Shouldn't a month be enough?

 

People criticizing this hire don't seem to actually have any information. All we know is that Steiner took himself out of consideration when he was offered a different job and that Mendoza and Cherrington were the other finalists. No matter how "national" the search or the resources expended, the athletic department cannot force coaches to apply. The AD can't go pressgang Terry Brands, Lou Roselli, and Casey Cunningham and make them fight for the job. 

[Pinnum 840]

I t seemed awfully quick and the only names that I saw were Cherrington and Mendoza.  If they were committed to a change, they would have taken time and expended resources to attract and/or pursue a bigger pool of candidates.  I have nothing against the hire, I'm just wondering out loud if Boise State actually wants a change.

April 18, 2016 - Randall was relieved of his duties.

May 20, 2016 - Mendoza was named head coach.

 

Boise State took 32 days.

 

A month is not too quickly for the process. When you consider it was at the end of the school year when kids may consider transferring due to the uncertainty, I wouldn't consider it to be too quick of a process.

 

Here are a few other coaching changes (School, coach hired, time to hire):

 

Cal Poly/ Jon Sioredas/ 26 days

Northern Colorado/ Troy Nickerson/ 42 days

Arizona State/ Zeke Jones/ 7 days

West Virginia/ Sammie Henson/ 52 days

North Carolina/ Coleman Scott/ 62 days

[Plasmodium 2,262]

I think think it was too fast. We can agree that Jones was extraordinarily quick? The first two have roughly the same level of commitment as BSU. The other two took twice as long.

[Pinnum 840]

Yes, we can agree!

 

It is possible Boise State may have had a few more applicants if they held the job open for a few more weeks. Though I have my doubt that there were any elite coaches were not aware of the opening since the wrestling community is so close.

[Idaho 1,346]

Idaho:

 

I am very aware of BSU's history and those who wrestled there.

 

As for why so many CSU kids are from Cali. I mentioned this as a negative. Seems the thought he can't recruit outside of Cali would be a problem. And your idea that Cali kids are better than Boise is laughable as BSU has competed and placed above CSU and Stanford a majority of the time in the PAC 12. As a guy with the name "Idaho" it is interesting you seem to think so little of wrestling out of Idaho. You diss their wrestler's by thinking state qualifiers would do better and further state it is not a hotbed for wrestling. I respectfully disagree. Idaho puts out quality wrestler's

 

As for what made BSU competitive is being able to get great and quality recruits (both in Idaho and outside of Idaho)and making them better.

 

My swing and a miss is based off recent hire's at similar schools in the west. This hire is not comparable to what FSU just got ( A program that is yet to be affiliated with a conference).

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i am very aware of Idaho wrestling and probably have been for much longer than you possibly have been alive - but what I am is realistic. "And your idea that Cali kids are better than Boise is laughable" - Actually what is laughable is for you to say this - How many Cali kids are AA each year compared to Idaho? How can you even compare Cali recruiting to Idaho. " a guy with the name "Idaho" it is interesting you seem to think so little of wrestling out of Idaho." Yes-  I will stick to my claim that there are state qualifiers that don't place in California that are better than many Idaho state champs. Yes, Idaho puts out some good wrestlers -I agree -  but not D1 wrestlers on a consistent basis. Every once in awhile there is a Foster, Smith, Hall, Eriksen, etc. But it doesn't happen on a regular basis like it does in say....California. By the way, I am the one defending and supporting BSU"s choice in this coach, whereas you are the one not. Where we would probably agree is what others have said and that is that Mendoza needs to be smart and get someone like Hoch, Chamberlain, Foster, Hall - The problem is that some of these guys are still competing and/or have a better situation as an assistant coach than BSU.

[dabrockster 38]

Idaho: we will have to disagree, there are many factors that are put into place that cause Cali to have AA's and population is not comparable to Idaho. I also believe there were good programs (Example: Centennial, Idaho falls) that had kids and their team competing with California schools on a regular basis. Placing high and doing well in Reno. Sadly they have fallen since their coach left.

 

There are other program that put up quality kids as well.

 

While Mendoza is hired and I hope he can get good assistants, I know some of those former guys are pretty tight and him getting it over Cherrington would not sit well not an outsider that they have battled for the past decade or more since Mendoza wrestler at CSU as well.

 

We will see how he does and who he can bring in. Many also mention fund raising but we will see what happens as that is no longer a necessity as it was before. I hope BSU can be brought back to what it was in the early 2000's to mid 2000's..

 

 

 

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[wrestlingnerd 3,004]

dabrockster, if you are seriously debating the strength of Idaho HS wrestling relative to California, you have lost all credibility. Are you friggin' serious? CA is one of the handful (as in five or less) of HS wrestling hotbeds in this country and Idaho might be in the bottom handful (truly no offense intended). Even just small regions of CA produce AAs every year, let alone the whole state. Some of the best wrestlers ever are from CA: Schultz brothers, Varner, Abas brothers, etc. CA is such a fixture in the elite wresting scene that it's fair to say the state produces world-class talent as frequently as any other state with the possible exception of PA, and even that is debatable.

 

If I were a D1 coach and I could focus on recruiting only one state, it might actually be CA because there is less local competition than in PA, OH, NJ, NY, etc.

 

If all Mendoza does is recruit just OK from CA, he will have paid for his salary many times over in terms of added value to BSU.

Edited May 26, 2016 by wrestlingnerd

[Pinnum 840]

dabrockster, if you are seriously debating the strength of Idaho HS wrestling relative to California, you have lost all credibility. Are you friggin' serious?

Not that any of this needs posted but...

 

 

Even when you account for population...

 

[uphillBronco 4]

Fundraising is and will continue to be a huge issue. The myth of BSU being fully funded or even competitively funded is just that, a myth. There are a few individuals that can and will help but I believe they need to get together to find the best way to utilize fundraising and resources. Maybe Mendoza is just the guy to pull all this together. My connections with the program have been on the mark so far with who applied, who it got narrowed down to and who was hired. At first I was very disappointed but you know, the more I look at the way it's turned out the more encouraged I am that maybe this is going to be a good thing. Mendoza needs money for competitive travel, assistant coaches, and recruiting budget. Don't be surprised if you see Hochstrasser and Meeks as his assistants and I can only hope the money comes in some way to hire Jason Chamberlain before he gets snatched up. I'm liking his connections to Californina kids because there are a lot of them and he's been very successful at kicking our butt with almost no resources. Meeks will have the Washington connection, Hoch the Utah connection and the idaho kids will come IF the program offers them a chance to be successful just like in the past. I can't speak for all the alumns but I can say that there are more than a few of us that are pretty pissed that the program is where it's at. Not happy with Randall and not happy with the athletic administration. Mendoza is not the bad guy now, he's been through worse times than this and has come out pretty successful. I for one will do what I can to help and I'm not alone. Lastly? I'm done bemoaning the guys that applied and didn't get it and the guys that applied and withdrew.

[dabrockster 38]

dabrockster, if you are seriously debating the strength of Idaho HS wrestling relative to California, you have lost all credibility. Are you friggin' serious? CA is one of the handful (as in five or less) of HS wrestling hotbeds in this country and Idaho might be in the bottom handful (truly no offense intended). Even just small regions of CA produce AAs every year, let alone the whole state. Some of the best wrestlers ever are from CA: Schultz brothers, Varner, Abas brothers, etc. CA is such a fixture in the elite wresting scene that it's fair to say the state produces world-class talent as frequently as any other state with the possible exception of PA, and even that is debatable.

 

If I were a D1 coach and I could focus on recruiting only one state, it might actually be CA because there is less local competition than in PA, OH, NJ, NY, etc.

 

If all Mendoza does is recruit just OK from CA, he will have paid for his salary many times over in terms of added value to BSU.

What I disagree is the idea a Cali state qualifier is Better than a state champ from Idaho.

 

 

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[Pinnum 840]

What I disagree is the idea a Cali state qualifier is Better than a state champ from Idaho.

 

 

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How many divisions does Idaho have? It is four, right? I think they combine the small schools into one division, right? I will use four divisions but it could be five.

 

Based on 2014-15 NFHS data, Idaho had 93 schools with wrestling programs. So that is one state team title per 23 schools. (Is that right, it seems so small, did I make a mistake?)

 

Idaho had 2,219 high school athletes participating in wrestling. With 14 weights, there would be 56 state champions. So there is a state champion for every 40 athletes in Idaho. (Again, please check this math, it can't be right.)

 

In California, there is only one state champion, eight placers, and 40 athletes qualify. Interestingly, the state bracket in California would nearly hold all the athletes that compere in a single division for the whole state of Idaho (again, assuming my math is right.)

 

There are 884 wrestling schools in California competing for a state title compared to Idaho's 23 schools.

 

There are 26,374 high school wrestlers in California so with 14 weight classes there are 1,883 athletes per state champion crowned. By placing the top eight athletes, there are 223 athletes not placing for every placer in California.

 

If we assume that both athlete pools are similar and that they have similar levels of training and competition available to them within an hour or so drive so that they can be developed locally. I would still have to conclude that California would be able to produce state qualifiers that are able to beat Idaho state champs due to the following figure:

 

Idaho State Champs per 1,000 athletes: 25

California Qualifiers per 1,000 athletes: 21

 

Thus it is statistically easier to win a state title in Idaho than it is to qualify for the a California state tournament.

 

Yes, I have no doubt that Idaho has produced state champions that are just as good as those from California but if you're talking about a larger pool of similarly talented athletes (and maybe more importantly, the type of athletes that can be attracted with minimal scholarship offers then California is by far the better avenue to go.)

[wrestlingnerd 3,004]

Missing in that analysis is overall level of competition. It's not just about there being 21 qualifiers per 1,000 athletes versus 25. Those 21 qualifiers are competing in a top 5 state where the level of wrestling is much higher in general than that of Idaho. It could be 70 qualifiers per 1,000 athletes and I'd still feel that on average the CA state qualifier is comparable to an Idaho state champ.

[Pinnum 840]

Missing in that analysis is overall level of competition. It's not just about there being 21 qualifiers per 1,000 athletes versus 25. Those 21 qualifiers are competing in a top 5 state where the level of wrestling is much higher in general than that of Idaho. It could be 70 qualifiers per 1,000 athletes and I'd still feel that on average the CA state qualifier is comparable to an Idaho state champ.

While I agree with you, it would be hard to convince someone with an Idaho bias that there are other areas that better develop athletes.

 

As a result, I tried to make it as bias free as possible. Under this scenario, if we accept (which I do not) that Idaho is just as good as California then the systems in place as well as their participation figures make it so that a California qualifier is still able to compete with an Idaho state champion.

[Wire 23]

A long time ago .... The UW in Seattle was a top 3-5 team. Poof .... and they were gone. Thanks to Title 9.

 

  However .... Washington, Oregon, Northern Ca., Idaho, Montana still produce those guys that could compete, and compete well if only there were those "lost" opportunities still alive, for our West Coast guys.

 

 

Evidently .. there are still AD's and Administration that support West Coast wrestling. I suggest we rise up and support those teams, and not degrade them, just because you may or may not like the new coach. It's a done deal. If ... more of us attend the matches, it's more $$ in their pockets.

 

I drive 5 plus hours to see a D1 match.... 

[ccrider55 18]

A long time ago .... The UW in Seattle was a top 3-5 team. Poof .... and they were gone. Thanks to Title 9.

 

However .... Washington, Oregon, Northern Ca., Idaho, Montana still produce those guys that could compete, and compete well if only there were those "lost" opportunities still alive, for our West Coast guys.

 

 

Evidently .. there are still AD's and Administration that support West Coast wrestling. I suggest we rise up and support those teams, and not degrade them, just because you may or may not like the new coach. It's a done deal. If ... more of us attend the matches, it's more $$ in their pockets.

 

I drive 5 plus hours to see a D1 match....

Blame T9? Maybe blame the idiot coach that sent an ineligible wrestler to Grey's Harbor tournament using another wrestlers name. Both were known to coaches, wrestlers, and refs. And then he didn't self report when he knew word was headed to NCAA. Brought the wrath at the AD down to protect other programs (FB). T9, nor money were a problem, but NCAA violations were...and there was certainty that a nonexistent program wouldn't commit more.

[dabrockster 38]

Interesting data missing as well is that any school can qualify more than 1 wrestler per weight class.

 

In the end, I now bow to your very well written data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[UTAZWrestler 3]

Here is my take.......

Randall did the unthinkable, he threw Chris Owens under the bus multiple times in the last couple of years.  He made the administration think Owens was the problem and that he, Randall, could fix things.   And he couldn't, never would have been able too.  He pushed Owens so far under the bus that the administration wanted nothing to do with him or anyone close to him.  Owens fell on to many swords to count and covered for Randall for 20 years.  Owens was passionate about BSU and Idaho wrestling,  But when the guy a head of you road blocks everything you are trying to do its tough to keep making things work. Why was Boise successful for that 15 year run?  Chris Owens!  Randall was jealous he knew who made things work, he knew who everyone associated the program too.  And so he started the downward spiral.  Randall's insecurities started this run of poor performance.  Heck he didn't even let Owens travel to many of the away matches.....that's how bad it got.  He took the best coach on staff out of coaching roles.  He took the best recruiter on staff out of recruiting roles.  He slit his own throat.  The mistake the administration made was not doing their jobs and really looking into things and seeing what was really going on.  Had they done that Randall would have been let go, like he was once they knew a few things.  And they would have promoted Owens to Head Coach.  He was what was best for BSU and Idaho Wrestling.

 

Mendoza from what i hear is a great guy and a good technical coach who could fund raise when he had a super bowl champ and ex world champion as an alumni.  we will see if he can do it at Boise with out that.  As far as recruiting goes.....maybe he gets some California kids to Boise.  But it will be tough.  School is so cheap there that kids don't venture out of state as much as other states. That was the block Boise had with recruiting kids from California.  So time will tell.  I don't think you will see as much as some on here think you will see.   There might be a reason more Bakersfield people aren't on here saying how big of a loss loosing him was.....

 

The Boise State train wasn't on the wrong track it just had the wrong engine leading the train.  

[Coachmp 4]

I think not too many from California have posted on here about Mendoza because most California folks are on the California wrestling forum. Go there if you want to read about how folks feel about Mendoza and what he's done at CSUB.

 

I’ve never posted on this forum before, but after reading some of these posts I wanted to chime in. BSU should feel very lucky to have Mendoza. He is well respected in CA (where it’s honestly a very tough audience) and you won’t talk to anyone who has bad things to say about the guy. From what I hear, people in the Bakersfield community are extremely upset that the University let him slip away. He’s a strong fundraiser, fair guy, good communicator, runs a hard-nosed room, tons of structure in his program, his kids go to class and his team GPA is stellar. What the heck else do you want?

 

CSU Bakersfield won the Pac 12 dual title this year and beat Stanford, Oregon State, Cal Poly, BSU, as well as teams like UVU outside of the Pac 12 conference. In the last 2 years they’ve signed outstanding recruiting classes and they had such a plentiful lineup that they were able to redshirt their 5-6 incoming freshman this year. Their head recruiter Silveira was doing a strong job of bringing top CA talent to the team. Mendoza and his staff were in the process of getting CSU Bakersfield back to an extremely high level as a program and then he suddenly leaves for BSU. Tough loss for CA wrestling, but I guess you can’t blame the guy for leaving when he had to raise $250k per year just to keep the program afloat with no funding provided by the University.

 

If he brings his young head-assistant coach Riley Orozco with him then BSU fans should really be excited. Not sure if any of the CSUB wresters will follow Mendoza to BSU but Matt Williams is a guy to watch out for. He bumped up to heavyweight to fill a hole for CSU Bakersfield this year and if he comes back down to 197 next year he will be a force. Plus CSU Bakersfield still has Coleman Hammond in the lineup, a returning NCAA qualifier with 2 years of eligibility remaining. Also, what will happen with CSUB’s prized redshirt Lorenzo De La Riva (I hope he doesn’t leave CA). He still has 4 years of eligibility and the kid won just about every tournament he wrestled as unattached this year and handily beat D1 starters from other programs. Not sure if any of these kids are leaving CSU Bakersfield but I tell you what, true BSU fans will love it when Mendoza and his staff tap into all of the CA talent that Randall was ignoring.

 

Honestly, I would rather see the CA kids stay in CA but this is a great option for them to have with BSU being only 8 to 12 hours away by car (depending on where you live in CA) and a very short flight. You BSU fans that think the program can be competitive by just recruiting from Idaho and it’s bordering states are delusional. Times have changed. Most of the top programs across the country are now recruiting heavily from CA, including Penn State, Iowa, and Cornell. I think you will see plenty of CA kids going to BSU in the upcomimg years. Good luck to Mendoza and BSU, although I’ll be rooting against you when you wrestle our CA teams.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Coachmp

[WillieBoy 713]

What I disagree is the idea a Cali state qualifier is Better than a state champ from Idaho.

 

 

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Sorry guy, demographics are against you here.

California has one State Champion per weight. No B,A,AA and the other school classifications so many other States use.

Idaho is a backwater village in comparison without the population base to draw from in producing tough competition. A few are good but overall California placers will beat Idaho champs.

[dabrockster 38]

Here is my take.......

Randall did the unthinkable, he threw Chris Owens under the bus multiple times in the last couple of years. He made the administration think Owens was the problem and that he, Randall, could fix things. And he couldn't, never would have been able too. He pushed Owens so far under the bus that the administration wanted nothing to do with him or anyone close to him. Owens fell on to many swords to count and covered for Randall for 20 years. Owens was passionate about BSU and Idaho wrestling, But when the guy a head of you road blocks everything you are trying to do its tough to keep making things work. Why was Boise successful for that 15 year run? Chris Owens! Randall was jealous he knew who made things work, he knew who everyone associated the program too. And so he started the downward spiral. Randall's insecurities started this run of poor performance. Heck he didn't even let Owens travel to many of the away matches.....that's how bad it got. He took the best coach on staff out of coaching roles. He took the best recruiter on staff out of recruiting roles. He slit his own throat. The mistake the administration made was not doing their jobs and really looking into things and seeing what was really going on. Had they done that Randall would have been let go, like he was once they knew a few things. And they would have promoted Owens to Head Coach. He was what was best for BSU and Idaho Wrestling.

 

Mendoza from what i hear is a great guy and a good technical coach who could fund raise when he had a super bowl champ and ex world champion as an alumni. we will see if he can do it at Boise with out that. As far as recruiting goes.....maybe he gets some California kids to Boise. But it will be tough. School is so cheap there that kids don't venture out of state as much as other states. That was the block Boise had with recruiting kids from California. So time will tell. I don't think you will see as much as some on here think you will see. There might be a reason more Bakersfield people aren't on here saying how big of a loss loosing him was.....

 

The Boise State train wasn't on the wrong track it just had the wrong engine leading the train.

Glad someone said it. Owens was why they succeed. He recruited all of the AA's and Champs. He is a local Idaho kid who went to Okie St. And came back and gave so much the program he loved.

 

 

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[wrestlingnerd 3,004]

[Wall of words ommitted]

 

 

Great post, Coach, but for Christ's sake, do they not teach paragraphs in CA?

[Coachmp 4]

Great post, Coach, but for Christ's sake, do they not teach paragraphs in CA?

Fixed. Let me know if you see any grammatical errors and I'll jump right on it..lol.

[uphillBronco 4]

Coachmp, I appreciate your thoughts on coach Mendoza.

[Gantry 1,872]

Agreed coach, thanks for chiming in