Fresno State looking to join Big 12

[CoachWrestling 317]

Source:

https://twitter.com/TakedownWrestle/status/749266026693468160

[MadMardigain 1,271]

That would be a great move for the schools recruiting ability, as well as, a chance for the Conference to continue growing their wrestling depth. Seems like a win-win for both sides.

Edited July 2, 2016 by MadMardigain

[Zebra 545]

I would have expected them to enter the PAC-12. It's better geographically and the PAC could use more teams. 

[cm_111 77]

Awesome, since the Pac10 doesn't have that many teams get them into a league where more teams compete, good move. 

Edited July 2, 2016 by cm_111

[JasonBryant 1,674]

Pac 12 has affiliate members in a number of sports but they won't take any more. I know the Pac 12 presidents have had a thing against Fresno for decades. If the WWC was still in existence, that's where they'd be. Pac-12 is unlikely.

[Pinnum 796]

Pac 12 has affiliate members in a number of sports but they won't take any more. I know the Pac 12 presidents have had a thing against Fresno for decades. If the WWC was still in existence, that's where they'd be. Pac-12 is unlikely.

Thanks, this provides some background that helps explain it.

 

I do know that over the years Fresno State has looked like a school that could make the leap to the Power ranks but always seemed to have roadblocks. It would make sense that the Pac-12 has been opposed to them specifically.

[WRfan1 142]

Stupid of the Pac12 not into bring them in the fold.

Edited July 3, 2016 by WRfan1

[JasonBryant 1,674]

The ones making those decisions -- it's above Fresno State wrestling's pay grade. 

[SetonHallPirate 832]

For what it's worth, and just to piggy-back on JB's point, Fresno State was actually a charter members of the Western Wrestling Conference, but dropped their program prior to competing in their first conference dual.

[OKnowwhut 59]

The Cali recruiting pool staying close to home... might be a game changer.

[de4856 360]

If I was Fresno State, and couldn't get in the Pac-12, I think I would try for the West Region. The Big 12 might be a bit much for a program that is just starting out.

[Pinnum 796]

If I was Fresno State, and couldn't get in the Pac-12, I think I would try for the West Region. The Big 12 might be a bit much for a program that is just starting out.

There is no West Region any more. It died in 2015...

[de4856 360]

Pinnum, my apologies, I forgot that many of the old west region got absorbed into the Big 12. Looking at the new Big 12 Wrestling conference, I wouldn't mind seeing Fresno St. go there. However, I think it might be a while before Fresno St. will be able to give some of the stronger teams in that conference a run for there money. Not sure why the Pac 12 wouldn't want to add Fresno though.

[pamela 1,334]

Pinnum, my apologies, I forgot that many of the old west region got absorbed into the Big 12. Looking at the new Big 12 Wrestling conference, I wouldn't mind seeing Fresno St. go there. However, I think it might be a while before Fresno St. will be able to give some of the stronger teams in that conference a run for there money. Not sure why the Pac 12 wouldn't want to add Fresno though.

 

I agree that the Pac-12 intuitively makes the most sense for Fresno State but affiliating would have been a real uphill battle (full membership would be out of the question) and the school would definitely get the unwanted stepchild treatment anyway, like Boise State and CSU Bakersfield. Not sure if media rights, etc. would be any different as a Big XII affiliate but at least they would have access to the former WCC schools & a huge qualifying event for nationals, and would also be under no obligation to schedule duals with WVU across the country every year. 

 

It's too bad the Pac-12 and Big XII (and WCC) didn't merge wrestling programs into a single superconference. Larry Scott, the Pac's commissioner, is a big proponent of Olympic sports (aka, international revenue opportunities) though I'm not sure he is aware of the difference between folkstyle and the Olympic styles. It seems he would be open to something like that but I guess the Big XII needs the Pac-12 now than the Pac-12 needs the Big XII in wrestling.

[ccrider55 16]

Pac 12 has affiliate members in a number of sports but they won't take any more. I know the Pac 12 presidents have had a thing against Fresno for decades. If the WWC was still in existence, that's where they'd be. Pac-12 is unlikely.

Fresno was in the Pac ('87-'91). Left when joining a conf with wrestling. It subsequently stopped sponsoring, and FSU went WWC. Pac presidents (primarily the UC system) aren't happy any cal st teams participate under the PAC label. Having been allowed once and leaving would be kin to hiring back a coach that left for another school and was cut loose from there later. Doesn't make sense to wrestling, but FB drives 90+% of what time presidents think about athletic departments, so...

[buf87 79]

 I think there has been talks between the Big 12 & Pac 12 to merge also.  If so, it makes sense for Fresno State to go straight to Big 12

[ccrider55 16]

I think there has been talks between the Big 12 & Pac 12 to merge also.  If so, it makes sense for Fresno State to go straight to Big 12

I know there was talk several years ago, but B12 decided to invite WWC. Anything since then?

[WillieBoy 713]

Pac 12 using the same justification to deny Fresno State as they used for BYU in Football and generally - that they are an inferior academic institution that does not measure up to the needed qualifications?

[pamela 1,334]

Pac 12 using the same justification to deny Fresno State as they used for BYU in Football and generally - that they are an inferior academic institution that does not measure up to the needed qualifications?

 

Different reason.  The Pac disallows religious & faith-based institutions, which is why BYU, Gonzaga, Notre Dame and Texas Tech were never really considered for membership during the last power five conference shakeup.  It's also why the Pac-12 schools won't ever invite Grand Canyon University (and because GCU is for-profit).

 

Academic/research prestige and specifically AAU membership is the reason why the Cal State schools, Boise State, UNLV or even Idaho & Montana (original members of the PCC before there was a Pac) likely won't be invited to join the conference anytime soon. There was actually a big public fuss when the conference expanded to the Arizona schools in the late 70s... UCLA and Arizona were behind the push to grow the Pac from 8 to 10 schools while the University of Washington and Stanford presidents campaigned against UA and ASU's membership due to a lack of academic rigor (although the UA is now an AAU institution).  

 

A similar outcry surfaced momentarily when the conference explored expansion from 10 to 12 with Colorado and Utah.  CU was already an AAU school, but not Utah.  In the end I guess the SLC/UT media market was too difficult to ignore; plus it was somewhat of a land grab as the conference was trying to quickly secure a 12-16 institution membership roster during a period of intra-conference volatility. So, Utah got in.

 

Affiliate membership is a bit different, but for conference membership I think an institution would need to have a pretty solid combination of academic strength and local media viewership (and nonsecular/nonprofit) to be invited to the Pac-12... which is why Texas is so highly coveted for further expansion while the likes of Fresno State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. are not.

Edited July 11, 2016 by pamela

[Gantry 1,675]

Different reason.  The Pac disallows religious & faith-based institutions, which is why BYU, Gonzaga, Notre Dame and Texas Tech were never really considered for membership during the last power five conference shakeup.  It's also why the Pac-12 schools won't ever invite Grand Canyon University (and because GCU is for-profit).

 

I don't think Texas Tech is religious...

[buf87 79]

I know there was talk several years ago, but B12 decided to invite WWC. Anything since then?

 

 

I think I heard KJ say that they were looking at adding others and Pac 12 was mention.  I think the talk is just that right now, but looking to get something to get closer to Big 10 competition

[Pinnum 796]

The Big 12 was the only conference in the country that was not entitled to automatic bids to the NCAA championship. The Big 12 needed other schools, other schools didn't need the Big 12.

 

The Big 12 was in discussions with other conferences (including the ACC and the Pac12) but the Big 12 wants their conference name to be used so the Big 12 controls the conference.

 

It was the WWC schools that thought it might be good to give the Big 12 what they wanted in hopes that they would be seen as peers and be able to get home duals with the Big12 schools. (Though it looks like there is not a complete round robin dual schedule for the new conference.)

[gimpeltf 1,522]

I don't think Texas Tech is religious...

 

Even about football?

[pamela 1,334]

I don't think Texas Tech is religious...

 

Even about football?

 

:D  My apologies, I was thinking of TCU, not TT.

 

 

@Pinnum are the home duals with Big XII schools guaranteed for the WCC affiliates?  I know the WCC and Big XII teams wrestle one another during the regular season because they both have room in their schedule to do so, but thought the affiliation really only granted the WCC schools participation in the conference tournament every year (and AQ status for the Big XII).

[buf87 79]

I do not think it is mandatory to for all Big 12 and WWc to wrestle each other.  But I have seen Iowa State has duals with Northern Colorado and SDSU this year and had Wyoming on the schedule last year.