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KTG119

Penn State-Hall to Redshirt

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Nobody is coming back off a Mormon mission and immediately qualifying for an Olympic redshirt.

Incorrect. For the 2016 Olympic cycle, there was no stipulation on when you had to be a Junior World medalist. If the criteria holds and the calendar aligns correctly, a guy like Spencer Lee, who has already qualified for an ORS while in HS, could go on a two-year mission after HS and ORS on his return

 

 

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I'm ok with Hall doing whatever Hall thinks is best for himself. Are wailers and teeth gnashers dismissing the fact that Hall has a brain and can think for himself? Besides, it is conceivable that one can grow, learn, advance and yes, live, during a redshirt year. He can still get a degree in four or even three years if that's his passion. People need to move through life at their own pace and direction.

 

 

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 college IS an age group. 

 

 

 

No actually it is not. 100 year old grandmas graduate from college.

 

A college is nothing more than a business with the stated purpose of making money by providing expert knowledge and training. The fact they provide more than just book knowledge (sports, social clubs, food, housing, etc.) is a different discussion.

 

In terms of age the NCAA has decided that 29 is the maximum age at which an athlete will be eligible to participate in DI or DII. As long as a wrestler, or any athlete for that matter, is following the published and accepted rules then I'm OK with it.   

 

I do not know if there is a minimum age. Could for example a supra-genius who graduated at 15 be eligible to compete? I would think so. Probably not likely to ever happen but if it's within the rules.  

 

 

DIII does not have that restriction and I have no idea what the NAIA does for age. 

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25 is very young in the adult world. These kids wrestle because they love it. No need to get out any earlier than with a maximum experience allowed within the rules.

 

25 is absolutely young. My point was that taking a year off, at 18/19, has, in the past, caused issues for some of these young guys. We have seen a few cases where they either lose interest or find themselves in trouble for having no serious responsibilities while also being on their own. I am not saying that will happen in this case but from a general perspective I just have never liked the practice as I would prefer they ascend their own lives rather than sitting out for a year for the benefit of a Coach or team. Hopefully it all works out for Hall.

 

Are wailers and teeth gnashers dismissing the fact that Hall has a brain and can think for himself?

 

 

To be fair I doubt Hall made this decision as it was likely mandated from the Penn State staff. He probably would love to get out there and compete rather than sitting for a season. Very few care about the team aspect of wrestling outside of Coaches and a small handful of fans so I would be willing to bet Hall is going to be very geared up to get on the mat once his time comes as sitting and watching is incredibly boring. Probably especially so for such a talent like him who could definitely go out and compete right away. This move here was no doubt done to set up team titles by the coaching staff which ultimately sets this young mans life back a year. 

Edited by cm_111

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25 is very young in the adult world. These kids wrestle because they love it. No need to get out any earlier than with a maximum experience allowed within the rules.

25 is young but when you start the adult world at 25 and your age group starts at 22 or even 18, you are behind when you begin. Believe me those hard working peers that graduated college at 22 aren't going to kiss the butt of any D1 athlete that stayed in college for an extra year or two. To each his own. It's survival of the fittest in the jungle and I don't think more time in college will prepare anyone for the REAL BATTLES that lie ahead.

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25 is absolutely young. My point was that taking a year off, at 18/19, has, in the past, caused issues for some of these young guys. We have seen a few cases where they either lose interest or find themselves in trouble for having no serious responsibilities while also being on their own. I am not saying that will happen in this case but from a general perspective I just have never liked the practice as I would prefer they ascend their own lives rather than sitting out for a year for the benefit of a Coach or team. Hopefully it all works out for Hall.

 

 

Taking a year off, in the past, has caused improvements for some of these young guys.  You can't say some and then add that "from a general perspective" and THEN ADD "I would prefer they ascend their own lives."  That's the whole point.  It's not your life.  It is also isn't your right to tell someone else how to live theirs.  Certainly there is free speech, but you are entitled to your wrong opinion, and be ready to be categorically wrong.  We are the only country in a RUSH, a rush to graduate high school, a rush to graduate college, a rush to start your career.  It doesn't matter.  It's not up for a discussion, because the facts prove you wrong.  In the same way that you may dislike an athlete graduating at 19, guess what?  The numbers are in his favor that he will be a more productive college student (graduation rate among males, 18 vs. 19) and athlete.  That, sir, make your comment ignorant at best.  

 

And it sure is a good thing you are not a coach of any sort.  There is a such thing as a TEAM, and its why NCAA athletes graduate at a higher rate and have more success than their peers after graduation.  Sacrifice and humility.  Doing what is best for the team, despite your own thoughts on the subject.  You know, the things us old-timers say these millennials lack?

 

To be fair I doubt Hall made this decision as it was likely mandated from the Penn State staff. He probably would love to get out there and compete rather than sitting for a season. Very few care about the team aspect of wrestling outside of Coaches and a small handful of fans so I would be willing to bet Hall is going to be very geared up to get on the mat once his time comes as sitting and watching is incredibly boring. Probably especially so for such a talent like him who could definitely go out and compete right away. This move here was no doubt done to set up team titles by the coaching staff which ultimately sets this young mans life back a year. 

 

 

To be fair, you don't know what you're talking about.  "Very few care about the team"  - Jesus.  First, that's a ridiculous thing to say, as it spits in the eye of what athletics is all about.  Second, you are, again, categorically, wrong about what most wrestlers want to do when they arrive on campus.  Third, you have no facts, no statistics or even anecdotal evidence to provide that would make your claims true.

 

A far MAJORITY of wrestlers who arrive on campus want to redshirt.  And do you want to know why?  You are correct, that it very usually has little to do with the team.  Most of them can't get a takedown for the first semester.  Most of them realize there is another level when they enter collegiate wrestling.  And being that they CAN take a redshirt, and the rules allow them a free year to improve and better prepare them for 4 years of competition, they WANT to take it.  I'm not sure how many high-level wrestlers you have been around, but the redshirt year is an honorable thing.  Wrestlers want to be the best, and, in general, have a very patient way of dealing with this concept.  If you can't get a takedown in your room, why would you want to wrestle a waste a year.  As has been previously mentioned, there is no going pro in wrestling.  Very few will be able to compete post-collegiate.  Having as much success as you can with the four years available is very important.

 

and what do you mean it sets his life back a year?  Holy hell.  You act like the life expectancy is 32!  Graduating college as an athlete is nothing more than a leg up.  Period.  Feel free to ask a recruiter near you.  The kid who graduates with a masters at 29, is he setting his life back a year?  I mean, he could just jump into the work-force at 17, complete his online degree and have experience right?  

 

The point you seem to be forgetting is every NCAA athlete is a living embodiment of a Constitutional right - the right to the pursuit of happiness.  That is a RIGHT.  You are wrong both statistically and morally.  Please do us all a favor and keep your wrong opinions to yourself. 

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To be fair I doubt Hall made this decision as it was likely mandated from the Penn State staff.  

 

I think this was completely Hall's decision.  My understanding is that he is going to spend his time gaining international experience as a member of the Junior World team, while he is still eligible for that level.  I don't think he's going to be sitting around, "bored". 

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In terms of age the NCAA has decided that 29 is the maximum age at which an athlete will be eligible to participate in DI or DII. 

 

Not sure where you came up with this rule.

Tennis has some rules concerning deferring matriculation past the age of 20.

In general, there are rules limiting deferring matriculation more than 1 year after graduating HS with exceptions given for Olympic training scenarios.

Then there are the exceptions to 4 years in 5. The main ones that would matter here are missionary and military service after having started school.

Normally missions are about 2 years but military (or foreign) service could be any length.

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No actually it is not. 100 year old grandmas graduate from college.

 

Thanks for the brilliant point that 100 year old grandmas graduate from college once in a blue moon, ergo, college athletes cannot all be categorized into an age group.

 

The quite obvious point I was making is that the vast majority of college athletes compete in an age group of 18-22, so anyone who competes with kids from normal (i.e. majority) age range at, say, 25+ has a distinct physical advantage that is abnormal. I never said it was illegal or underhanded. I just have an opinion that it provides the guys willing to delay their graduation substantially with an unfair advantage.

 

Again, these comments are not specifically aimed at Hall. Actually, I think Hall is one of the very few talented enough to legitimately be able to prioritize wrestling over academics and make a reasonable career decision, so if anything, he is an exception to my more general comments.

 

I just don't like a system that allows for this type of thing to happen so systematically, and it's one of the reasons I don't like redshirts.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Not sure where you came up with this rule.

Tennis has some rules concerning deferring matriculation past the age of 20.

In general, there are rules limiting deferring matriculation more than 1 year after graduating HS with exceptions given for Olympic training scenarios.

Then there are the exceptions to 4 years in 5. The main ones that would matter here are missionary and military service after having started school.

Normally missions are about 2 years but military (or foreign) service could be any length.

 

 

I'm 100% certain that an individual can enlist in the military, serve 6 years, and still wrestle in college until the age of 29. It has been done before and has produced at least 1 NCAA finalist.  

 

 

I am going to amend this. I am 100% certain it used to be this way. If they changed the rules in the recent past it is something of which I'm unaware.  

Edited by Zebra

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This is a false statement, especially since you seem to be applying it to athletes.

 

Oh it is, is it... and you are basing this on your vast experiences in/around college wrestling after competing at a D1 school for four years yourself, yes?

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I'm 100% certain that an individual can enlist in the military, serve 6 years, and still wrestle in college until the age of 29. It has been done before and has produced at least 1 NCAA finalist.  

 

 

I am going to amend this. I am 100% certain it used to be this way. If they changed the rules in the recent past it is something of which I'm unaware.  

 

I'm not aware of there ever being a maximum age limit. Larock Benford was 31 at NCAAs in 1992.

 

Tim Frisby played ball for S Carolina at the age of 39 in 2004

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Nearly daily is better than daily, no?

Except I don't post everyday which only shows your powers of observation are extremely low, therefore any prediction or pronouncement you make is necessarily called into question, e.i you're not even as smart as an idiot savant. 

 

 

Again it's extremely easy for me to turn these around so I have no idea why you continue. I'm done with this portion of the thread as you are completely boring me. It's just no fun picking on a hapless nerd. 

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