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WildTurkey44

Iowa/Msu Throwing puches?

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DSJ and Evans weren't simply retaliating. DSJ threw a left hook, and Watts one upped him. Evans tried the old "shove him onto his back after the whistle blows," so Wohlfert hit an extra double. Evans kept wrestling when the whistle blew; Wohlfert followed suit.

 

Oddly DSJ and Evans are two of my favorite wrestlers, but acting like they were innocent/took the second "shot" each time is just fan loyalty. It's okay though, any team's fans would make the same comments if it were their guys (including my own).

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DSJ and Evans weren't simply retaliating. DSJ threw a left hook, and Watts one upped him. Evans tried the old "shove him onto his back after the whistle blows," so Wohlfert hit an extra double. Evans kept wrestling when the whistle blew; Wohlfert followed suit.

 

Oddly DSJ and Evans are two of my favorite wrestlers, but acting like they were innocent/took the second "shot" each time is just fan loyalty. It's okay though, any team's fans would make the same comments if it were their guys (including my own).

 

 

And when Wohlfer threw two punches at Evans? Totally cool?

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DSJ and Evans weren't simply retaliating. DSJ threw a left hook, and Watts one upped him. Evans tried the old "shove him onto his back after the whistle blows," so Wohlfert hit an extra double. Evans kept wrestling when the whistle blew; Wohlfert followed suit.

 

Oddly DSJ and Evans are two of my favorite wrestlers, but acting like they were innocent/took the second "shot" each time is just fan loyalty. It's okay though, any team's fans would make the same comments if it were their guys (including my own).

 

 

And when Wohlfer threw two punches at Evans? Totally cool?

 

 

Are you talking about the haymaker collar tie?

 

Edit: At what point/period in the match? I'll re-watch it again, but nothing got me too excited about either guy at 174 the first time.

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DSJ and Evans weren't simply retaliating. DSJ threw a left hook, and Watts one upped him. Evans tried the old "shove him onto his back after the whistle blows," so Wohlfert hit an extra double. Evans kept wrestling when the whistle blew; Wohlfert followed suit.

 

Oddly DSJ and Evans are two of my favorite wrestlers, but acting like they were innocent/took the second "shot" each time is just fan loyalty. It's okay though, any team's fans would make the same comments if it were their guys (including my own).

 

 

And when Wohlfer threw two punches at Evans? Totally cool?

 

 

Are you talking about the haymaker collar tie?

 

Edit: At what point/period in the match? I'll re-watch it again, but nothing got me too excited about either guy at 174 the first time.

 

 

http://www.btn.com/video/?select=oCSv_ObE6e93

 

You can watch at 43 seconds of the video I just posted. This was before the....late takedown attempt.

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Yeah watch it again, he threw a hard shot to the side of Evan's head from his knees (again out of bounds).

If the timing of the video is correct, it happens before the Evans shove and then the late/out of bounds Takedown from MSU. Which I believe is also before Evans clawed his face.

No question it was dirty, and he should have been DQd on the spot imo, Evans should not have retaliated though either. I can just imagine what Brands was doing after the punch!

 

Earlier, in the 165lb match DSJ appeared to strike first, but I can only view the little highlight video now so I will watch again on Wednesday and see what happened before that if anything.

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And when Wohlfer threw two punches at Evans? Totally cool?

 

 

Are you talking about the haymaker collar tie?

 

Edit: At what point/period in the match? I'll re-watch it again, but nothing got me too excited about either guy at 174 the first time.

 

 

http://www.btn.com/video/?select=oCSv_ObE6e93

 

You can watch at 43 seconds of the video I just posted. This was before the....late takedown attempt.

 

Perhaps I had a worse view originally or justified that one in the context of the match. Yeah that was bad. Can't complain about the late double-leg, but once you know you're in danger of getting jacked in the face I guess it changes the mentality.

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Wow leshismore. You're even more of a nancy than previously thought. You can say what you want. I have plenty of character. And you are hilarious as well. Good luck in li'fe. You're gonna need it sister.

There you go again tough guy. Wow, now you are calling me a "girl".... whew, not sure I could deal with such a deep put down. Gee, what play ground did you come up with that one (that'l showem JimBob, I will call him a sissygirl.)

And dback 5... you obviously are showing that you "are" a character... that doesn't mean that you "have character." There is a big difference. Sorry I had to explain that to you... I know it is complicated.

 

And didn't I see you booing Dake last year in St. Louis after his winning his 3rd title?

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Not sure why everyone is pissed. This was the most entertaining match I have seen this year.

 

 

I blew off recording this match when I set things up for the week. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would have to go back and schedule it for recording.

 

dback, making friends as usual I see. You need to realize that name calling just doesn't articulate well past the 2nd grade.

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I didn't see the full match(s) but was anyone penalized match points for unsportsmanlike conduct or uneccessary roughness for all this stuff?

 

 

Reminds me of this match from a few years ago (start watching around 2:30):

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/238207-kent-state-vs-purdue-2011-gohiocasts/video/422297-197-lbs-war-dustin-kilgore-ksu-vs-logan-brown-purdue

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After seeing the video again,

what DSJ did totally instigated the incident.

 

I never caught that the 1st time.

 

I love DSJ too and think he literally gets no credit because he has had a backseat to DT and last year to injury/Kyle Dake.

If you can't see the left jab to the chin, you are blind.

It doesn't warrant the MSU kid going bananas though.

 

Evans wore the shots to the head like a champ and then raked the kid's face off.

The head shots served no purpose, so they were scumbag too, but Evan's response was on par.

If you believe in eye for an eye than you can justify it, literally.

 

I have no agenda toward Iowa, love the Hawks but a spade is a spade.

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Wow leshismore. You're even more of a nancy than previously thought. You can say what you want. I have plenty of character. And you are hilarious as well. Good luck in li'fe. You're gonna need it sister.

There you go again tough guy. Wow, now you are calling me a "girl".... whew, not sure I could deal with such a deep put down. Gee, what play ground did you come up with that one (that'l showem JimBob, I will call him a sissygirl.)

And dback 5... you obviously are showing that you "are" a character... that doesn't mean that you "have character." There is a big difference. Sorry I had to explain that to you... I know it is complicated.

 

And didn't I see you booing Dake last year in St. Louis after his winning his 3rd title?

No, Dake is one of my favorite wrestlers. Unfortunate he beat DSJ, but he is outstanding.

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I haven't seen the Iowa/MSU match but I was watching the Iowa/Michigan dual on TV yesterday and DSJ definitely had the best punch of the night in that dual (unless there was a better one in the last 3 weights as I couldn't watch the whole dual).

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Not sure why everyone is pissed. This was the most entertaining match I have seen this year.

 

 

I blew off recording this match when I set things up for the week. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would have to go back and schedule it for recording.

 

dback, making friends as usual I see. You need to realize that name calling just doesn't articulate well past the 2nd grade.

The thing is, I could care less what most of the jokers think of me on here. If you cant deal with it, well then thats your deal

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-------

The ref is raising his right arm? Hurricane, the ref's hand stays below his waist in all your pictures. Fanning his fingers maybe?

 

You say Watts releases StJ's arm. That's your interpretation. From your images, it could just as credibly be said St J is releasing Watt's right forearm after frame 2. Then Watts proceeds to grab StJ's arm.

 

In summary, your video capture shows is two guys going out of bounds with their hands still on each other. Watt's right hand remains on StJ's left forearm and elbow, while Watt's left arm is on StJ's right shoulder.

 

One thing your video capture apparently missed, was StJ's mouth piece falling onto the mat while the shoving was going on, likely due to Watts shoving StJ's head. St J is shoving too, but imo, nothing too serious by either guy. There is no "left hook" as you call it. A mild face shove at worst. A left hook is a punch. StJ threw no punch.

 

What your video capture also left out is 3 closed fist swings by Watts at St J's head, including a left jab to the face. St J shows remarkable restraint, and does nothing except back away, pick up his mouthpiece and does not swing back.

 

Following that, you see 2 MSU coaches running out to try to calm the clearly out of control Watts down.

 

For anyone interested, watch the video before judging.

 

I realize that some, like Wire, don't need to. They are able to discern the Iowa is always guilty, no matter what the facts are. But for others, watch the close of the first period, and make up your own mind.

So many strawmen and so little time, Rossel! :P

 

Notwithstanding your usual Pavlovian responses to anything you feel slights the Hawks, my post was

a reasonable one based on the currently available evidence. If someone presents a more plausible explanation for why Watts suddenly started throwing punches, then I'll certainly listen with an open mind. And the same goes for any other evidence that may surface via the media, the full video, etc.

 

However, as of now, I'll stand by my original conclusion that DSJ instigated the incident. And you may note that, in general, it matters little to me how his actions are characterized (e.g., left-hook, bitch-slap, face-shoving, OOB slapping, etc.). The bottom line is, whatever description is used for DSJ's behavior, it was his acts that precipitated the fisticuffs.

 

Having said the above, that in no way excuses Watts' behavior. Even though the incident may never have occurred absent DSJ's initial shot at him, Watt's reaction was so extreme that it could be deemed the greater transgression. (That's assuming, of course, that some entity such as the NCAA were to require that both wrestlers be reprimanded.)

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If this stuff doesn't happen in the match with MSU...there would be no reason to talk about MSU.

 

I think we all know anything the Iowa does is going to get scrutinized to the nth degree. Who cares. Regardless of what wrestling does...it won't win the casual fans. The rules aren't built for that...and they will never be changed.

 

Who ever said that people want to see the physical activity hit the nail on the head. It's the reason that Iowa is the only team that can pull in the fans to a dual that they do. All the other teams can stick with drawing 2,000+ (if that). Meanwhile, Iowa can draw 9,000 for Ohio St. on a Friday night. Illinois and Minnesota had 1,800 'packed' in a womens basketball arena. It was a fun dual to watch with more upsets than anyone would have guessed...but where are the people?

 

The date also got changed on the Iowa/MN dual to a saturday. It is conference wrestling weekend in Iowa...attendance will lack for the dual because of it.

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That was my post a long ways back. And that's the point I was making. Iowa is obviously the most popular wrestling team of all time. No other school is even close. They are part of not only the top 25 dual attendance records but top 43. Coincidence? Um, no. Like it or not the so called thug Iowa team puts butts in the stands because of their so called style. Sometimes if you bite the hand that feeds you too many times it will bite back. "Write that down"

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If this stuff doesn't happen in the match with MSU...there would be no reason to talk about MSU.

 

I think we all know anything the Iowa does is going to get scrutinized to the nth degree. Who cares. Regardless of what wrestling does...it won't win the casual fans. The rules aren't built for that...and they will never be changed.

 

Who ever said that people want to see the physical activity hit the nail on the head. It's the reason that Iowa is the only team that can pull in the fans to a dual that they do. All the other teams can stick with drawing 2,000+ (if that). Meanwhile, Iowa can draw 9,000 for Ohio St. on a Friday night. Illinois and Minnesota had 1,800 'packed' in a womens basketball arena. It was a fun dual to watch with more upsets than anyone would have guessed...but where are the people?

 

The date also got changed on the Iowa/MN dual to a saturday. It is conference wrestling weekend in Iowa...attendance will lack for the dual because of it.

 

Penn State sells out home duals. It's not 9,000 but there are certain meets that can draw that. All that without pushing guys into the stands and other extras you ask? Yep, it's called winning and that's exactly how Iowa fills the stands too. You are overlapping the two but they are not in anyway related. You can win without being dirty. Every school has the occasional incidents, it's rare to see a school embrace them. Let Iowa have losing seasons and continue to just go a little too far and their attendance will drop off like the basketball attendance did.

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All good points. BTW, does the attendance at Iowa stay generally the same year after year?

 

I don't know the exact figures, but I can usually find a ticket fairly easily. I don't ever recall it being overly empty if that's what you are asking.

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Iowa has pretty steady attendance year over year. And I agree it's because the last 50 years they have been the most dominant program of any sport in the last half century for their attendance but even at away duals you can look up the figures. There's a reason why out of town crowds would come watch them. It's because they wanted to see that Iowa style. That's just the facts.

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It's difficult to compare programs because PSU hasn't had that kind of success. They do travel well in wrestling as well as other sports in regards to fans. They sold around 6,000 seats in Utah last season if my bad memory serves correctly. It's really irrelevant, as they are not coming to watch Iowa wrestle after the whistle and out of bounds. They are there to watch the best wrestlers in the country go at it, and in the case of away matches many would love a historic upset.

In this case I don't lay any more blame on Iowa as I do MSU, in fact 174lb MSU wrestler landed the worst shot of what I have seen so far.

It's the fans here pretending that the IA wrestlers were innocent bystanders in the dual. I completely understand the tendency to get defensive because IA does take crap for no reason often. This is just not the case this time.

 

Edit:

Just a side note, but my son wrestled in 6th grade this year and he caught the usual jaunting because he is a PSU fan. what was interesting though was that when he asked his friends who their favorite wrestlers were, Taylor and Ruth were right there with McD and DSJ. One kid even said "don't tell my dad he will kill me"

Also irrelevant, but the "Iowa style" as you call it was winning, don't mistake it for the other BS.

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The Iowa style was winning but winning with a punishing style that was always moving forward and if a little occasional push happened so be it. That's what people came and come to see. Like it or not that's the case. Of course fans come with winning. That's a given. But you don't see okie state pack it in like the hawks and you don't even see state penn pack it in like the hawks. Given tho that they only seat 9 k and carver seats around 15k so it's a bit unfair in that regards.

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You keep implying that the fans are there to watch the extra little push. I can't speak for you and you can't speak for me. I go there to watch them wrestle, not a fan at all of the shoves.

"If" Penn State, winners of the last two national titles and favorites for the next two, has success beyond that you will see their numbers begin to surpass that of Iowa.

Wrestling is every bit as popular there, and populations will drive up demand and attendance. The exact reason Cael took that job.

I have no problem with the violence.... put it in the rule book, make it legal. Until then it's illegal and they should start enforcing it.

In this instance Iowa and MSU at the very least should have lost a team point. Sorry that you can't see it but Iowa was just as guilty.

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I'm not implying that is why people are going I'm saying if it happens big deal. I have no issue with it at all. Heat of the moment things happen. The human race is not mindless politically correct robots that always play by the rules and always show impeccable sportsmanship either like what everyone wants. Won't ever be either ever as long as there is sport and competition where the score matters.

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