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Congratulations to Helen!


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#21 Coach_J

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:11 AM

Wow. Utter irresponsibility on so many parts.


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#22 sgallan

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:41 AM

Wow. Utter irresponsibility on so many parts.

Agree.
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#23 sgallan

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:51 AM

What I found...

https://olympics.nbc...concussion/amp/

This was the article I was talking about. As much as I enjoy her wrestling, and would like to see her win more medals, she needs to stop, and family should step in and try to convince her. Adults don't recover even a little bit. Junior Seau was a beloved local. His first attempt at suicide was driving off a cliff in Carlsbad, .ca.. They called it an unknown reason of a crash. I mentioned to somebody, having heard of issues, it sounded like a suicide attempt. Not all that long after a gun did it. He was a prisoner of a damaged brain and couldn't take it anymore. Absolutely the nicest guy and a supporter of his community.

#24 nom

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:34 AM

Just reading what the article say, it makes me angry. Her rushing back just seems totally irresponsible — and the people around her seem irresponsible as well.

I have limited info and I am no doctor ... but it seems she needs better people around her rather than those that let her push into wrestling so quickly during that series in India and now.

It seems to be a horrible example to set for others and young folks. An over abundance of caution should be used.

Again, just know what I read in the article. Would welcome other perspectives and facts.

Sad and angry .... does USA wrestling have any say? Suppose if doctor says she is good to go ... they don’t. Curious to hear what her doctor is saying.

Scary.

#25 2td3nf

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 05:04 AM

Yeah, that article was scary. I remember sgallan bringing this up a while ago but didn't think Helen's condition was that bad.

Hope Helen is ok.

#26 Alwayswrestling

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 05:34 AM

Wonder if this was about $$$$ in wrestling over in India. Definitely not a smart healthy move for her. JMO

#27 sgallan

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:02 AM

Just reading what the article say, it makes me angry. Her rushing back just seems totally irresponsible — and the people around her seem irresponsible as well.

I have limited info and I am no doctor ... but it seems she needs better people around her rather than those that let her push into wrestling so quickly during that series in India and now.

It seems to be a horrible example to set for others and young folks. An over abundance of caution should be used.

Again, just know what I read in the article. Would welcome other perspectives and facts.

Sad and angry .... does USA wrestling have any say? Suppose if doctor says she is good to go ... they don’t. Curious to hear what her doctor is saying.

Scary.

When it comes to the brain, and concussions, the doctors don't know as much as you would hope they do. The extreme light sensitivity is a really bad sign. As is needing to avoid outside stimuli. That it took 4 months to clear is also a really bad sign. Doctors don't have a good handle on this. Doctors gave up on my kid. Her functions came back little by little over time. The loss of some IQ, and the personality changes are permanent. The military and its doctors seem to have the best grasp on on various Traumatic Brain Injuries, which is what a concussion is. It is filtering down to the medical community at large but neurologists as a group, especially at the better medical centers, are fairly arrogant, and don't take to new information they didn't come up with themselves

#28 Coach_J

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:52 AM

I remember my son winning his first two bouts at Fargo and then being on the wrong end of a nasty suplex in round three.  He hit the mat, got up, and walked into the circle on the adjoining mat ready to go.  Having sustained several severe concussions in the day, I knew what the long-term consequences might be.  Coaches wanted him to keep going but there has to be a point where logic and common sense prevail so I pulled him--no medal is worth the long-term side effects.  JMHO


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#29 sgallan

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:49 AM

I remember my son winning his first two bouts at Fargo and then being on the wrong end of a nasty suplex in round three. He hit the mat, got up, and walked into the circle on the adjoining mat ready to go. Having sustained several severe concussions in the day, I knew what the long-term consequences might be. Coaches wanted him to keep going but there has to be a point where logic and common sense prevail so I pulled him--no medal is worth the long-term side effects. JMHO

Obviously the right call. These things can get out of control quickly. Hate to say it but strategy wrestling Helen is heavy hands on the head. Snaps and so on.
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#30 nom

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:36 AM

Sgallan, your post unsettles me. Hate to think someone would do that. Then it makes me think .... well ... kind of a ****ty situation for the opponent. Go for it full bore to win and risk causing brain damage to your opponent or don’t go for it and accommodate her because you don’t want to cause brain damage — and perhaps lose.

Just not a good situation for either competitor.

We need a good journalist to dig into this. Shine a light on the situation overall for the sport and these situations in particular. Weigh the different perspectives and pros/cons. Provide insight into the power or lack thereof related to the sport’s regulatory body. Would be very interesting read.
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#31 sgallan

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 12:02 PM

Sgallan, your post unsettles me. Hate to think someone would do that. Then it makes me think .... well ... kind of a ****ty situation for the opponent. Go for it full bore to win and risk causing brain damage to your opponent or don’t go for it and accommodate her because you don’t want to cause brain damage — and perhaps lose.

Just not a good situation for either competitor.

We need a good journalist to dig into this. Shine a light on the situation overall for the sport and these situations in particular. Weigh the different perspectives and pros/cons. Provide insight into the power or lack thereof related to the sport’s regulatory body. Would be very interesting read.

Worse is head/ hands, and being heavy, is fundamental technique in any event.

#32 pamela

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 12:44 PM

This is heartbreaking. 😞

#33 Ogalthorpe Haywood

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:59 PM

Hate to think someone would do that. Then it makes me think .... well ... kind of a ****ty situation for the opponent. Go for it full bore to win and risk causing brain damage to your opponent or don’t go for it and accommodate her because you don’t want to cause brain damage — and perhaps lose.
Just not a good situation for either competitor.[/quote]

The opponent should always go full bore, it is not his or her responsibility. Each wrestler assumes his or her own risk when stepping on the mat.

#34 nom

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 12:49 AM

Haywood - I get your post from the perspective of a robot. But if you have an ounce of compassion and you walk onto the mat with a wrestler you know is at high risk of a life altering brain injury, you are going to care and stress about it .... and if that person experiences the injury .... you are going to blame them and also feel like crap.

Read the Schalles interview posted on here. He was even more insulated —- sounds like just a freak accident to the opponent’s neck via a move the opponent hit — but Schalles suffered anyway. He isn’t a robot.

#35 Ogalthorpe Haywood

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:49 PM

Haywood - I get your post from the perspective of a robot. But if you have an ounce of compassion and you walk onto the mat with a wrestler you know is at high risk of a life altering brain injury, you are going to care and stress about it .... and if that person experiences the injury .... you are going to blame them and also feel like crap.
Read the Schalles interview posted on here. He was even more insulated —- sounds like just a freak accident to the opponent’s neck via a move the opponent hit — but Schalles suffered anyway. He isn’t a robot.


And how would that person feel if they held back and lost a close match? I would imagine that would also haunt them as well. Helen will make her choice, if she steps on the mat her opponents should consider her healthy and bring there full arsenal to give themselves every opportunity to win. And I am not a robot just a competitor.

#36 Coach_J

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 12:45 AM

I'll probably mangle this, but I remember a story of one of the Petersons having to wrestle an opponent who had suffered a knee injury and he was conflicted over attacking the damaged leg.  I can't remember if it was Gable or Rick Saunders or someone else who told him to the effect, "If you only attack his good leg, you make the poor guy hop around and balance on a bad leg."  Please, one of our history wizards, give us the full, accurate story.  Basically, you're screwed no matter what you do if you try to accommodate an opponent's injury.


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#37 sgallan

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 12:47 AM

I'll probably mangle this, but I remember a story of one of the Petersons having to wrestle an opponent who had suffered a knee injury and he was conflicted over attacking the damaged leg. I can't remember if it was Gable or Rick Saunders or someone else who told him to the effect, "If you only attack his good leg, you make the poor guy hop around and balance on a bad leg." Please, one of our history wizards, give us the full, accurate story. Basically, you're screwed no matter what you do if you try to accommodate an opponent's injury.

Both Smith and Cejudo attacked blown knees with zero mercy.

Edited by sgallan, 06 June 2018 - 12:48 AM.


#38 CA_Wrestler

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:03 AM

Both Smith and Cejudo attacked blown knees with zero mercy.

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Edited by CA_Wrestler, 06 June 2018 - 02:03 AM.


#39 TheRealOne9050

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 03:42 AM

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#40 mspart

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 04:20 AM

Yes this is a real decision time for Helen and whoever advises her.  With that in mind, it would be well for USAW to do what has been suggested here and gather all the concussion evidence so that wrestlers will have all the details.  I'm afraid it won't help.  These people are still young and indestructible, in their own minds.  But it would be out there.  Perhaps USAW could also have a concussion doctor from the military (as sgallan mentions) so that they get the proper diagnosis and long term probabilities. 

 

mspart






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