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There are a million things about this match that seem to represent a new mindset we need to adopt as a wrestling family/ nation.  I'm gonna really flesh out what I am talking about after Sunday.  

 

In this match, all Jordan had was his usual techniques, but with a seeming lack to set it up or get into better positioning.  One thing is that we, the USA, are way to reliant on shooting and singles and doubles, often with no set-up.  That really showed in Burroughs match.  He usually only uses timing to get a guy off balance, or as a set-up.  

 

Frankly, the Russian could have won by much more, as he was in on Jordan constantly, had Burroughs up in the air a few times, etc.   Remember when Schultz started beating Monday towards the end of his life.  Monday began to slow down and Schultz adapted to him, and kept moving his technique forward. I think he would have given Satiev fits in that Olympics, but alas.  Anyway, Jordan needs to readapt to what people are doing against him.  

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There were circumstances in the match that didn't go Jordan's way. Primarily, the inability to stop the cut on top of his head from bleeding and the ref's constant involvement in the match ( which thought it was above the norm for a ref). Both of these lead to breaks that I think ultimately led to a net negative for Jordan. Although Jordan looked more gassed than usual I think Geduev ultimately benefited more from the breaks than Jordan.  WITH THAT BEING SAID, these are circumstances that ALL WRESTLERS have to anticipate and I don't view them as egregious occurrences at all, but simply part of the sport. And  no matter how much we improve wrestling there will always be unfortunate circumstances that a wrestler may have to deal with. These circumstances, largely stemming from human error, are apart of our sport ,whether we like it or not.  Geduev wrestled the exact match he needed to wrestler, so hats off to him. Jordan will rebound and take bronze, which is STILL an amazing accomplishment and something we should be proud of. 

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LJB, that's always been the case, and JB always found a way. John Smith often wrested from space too, and he did OK.

 

Let's not hyper-analyze what is plain as day. JB, for whatever reason, did not wrestle wel. Specifically, he did not take enough shots and showed up in suboptimal shape. Not a good outing for the champ, and it's that simple. Call it an excuse if you like, but it's the truth.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Yea billy I see their point of view and I like me some folkstyle as well but other than trading in tilts for gutwrenches freestyle is pretty much the same. Geduev just showed us that you can scramble in free. I think you made some good points with missing out on sponsorships and other opportunities. If we don't addapt we die.

 

A moot point but isn't the flight from Russia closer to Vegas than rio?

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LJB, that's always been the case, and JB always found a way. John Smith often wrested from space too, and he did OK.

 

Let's not hyper-analyze what is plain as day. JB, for whatever reason, did not wrestle wel. Specifically, he did not take enough shots and showed up in suboptimal shape. Not a good outing for the champ, and it's that simple. Call it an excuse if you like, but it's the truth.

i am not sure if he didn't wrestle well or if his opponents knew exactly what they needed to do against him... maybe he has lost some speed of his youth... didn't look like it so far this year... 

 

let's not act is if he hadn't been in close matches before... or that gedeuv hasn't pushed him before... he lost against a better prepared wrestler today... no shame in that

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That's always been the case, and JB always found a way. John Smith often wrested from space too, and he did OK.

 

Let's not hyper-analyze what is plain as day. JB, for whatever reason, did not wrestle wel. Specifically, he did not take enough shots and showed up in suboptimal shape. Not a good outing for the champ, and it's that simple. Call it an excuse if you like, but it's the truth.

Two years in a row, against two different Russians?

 

 No overanalysis needed.  That cost Burroughs 250,000 dollars too, at least.  I love Burroughs, I really do, but the Russians have his number now, and he needs to adapt...or change his name to "All I See Is Bronze.

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Will Burroughs bounce back and get the medal?

 

I hope so.  Of our remaining guys, only Snyder really has a chance.  And the Russian has already beaten him.  Built like a bigger version of Geduev.  Hopefully they're on opposite sides of the bracket.

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LJB, that's always been the case, and JB always found a way. John Smith often wrested from space too, and he did OK.

 

Let's not hyper-analyze what is plain as day. JB, for whatever reason, did not wrestle wel. Specifically, he did not take enough shots and showed up in suboptimal shape. Not a good outing for the champ, and it's that simple. Call it an excuse if you like, but it's the truth.

Smith lost to Reinoso two years in a row, including the '92 Olympics. Under the current format, he doesn't get Gold, he even meddle.  Smith had a killer single, but his leg lace may have been his best asset.  Anyway, keep in mind Smith is our Gold Standard, but may only be roughly 20th best or worse all-time worldwide in Freestyle.  If Mary Lou could look up to Nadia from Romania, then why shouldn't our guys look more up to Belaglozov, Fadzaev, Medved, Yarygin, etc?  

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Two years in a row, against two different Russians?

 

 No overanalysis needed.  That cost Burroughs 250,000 dollars too, at least.  I love Burroughs, I really do, but the Russians have his number now, and he needs to adapt...or change his name to "All I See Is Bronze.

 

What are you talking about? Burroughs beat Geduev last year at Worlds and got gold. 

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What relevance does looking up to other guys have to what I said?

 

I simply said JB doesn't need a wholesale overhaul or major adjustment to his arsenal. He's got plenty. He just needs to show up every time and wrestle he way he can. He didn't today.

 

It's funny how everyone had JB as a lock just days ago and now that he lost, he doesn't have enough to keep winning.

 

Maybe he needs to change his style after all, but today was not enough evidence of that at least to me.

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What relevance does looking up to other guys have to what I said?

 

I simply said JB doesn't need a wholesale overhaul or major adjustment to his arsenal. He's got plenty. He just needs to show up every time and wrestle he way he can. He didn't today.

 

It's funny how everyone had JB as a lock just days ago and now that he lost, he doesn't have enough to keep winning.

 

Maybe he needs to change his style after all, but today was not enough evidence of that at least to me.

I haven't said to change his style.  He can wrestle in space using the same style, but needs a few more set-ups perhaps.  Something to show a different look when someone is so on him.  

If I sound harsh on Burroughs, it is only if he wants to be considered one of the all-time greats.  A few years ago, we were all wondering if Jordan could beat Satiev and some of the really really all-time greats.  He needs some adjustments to get back to that level is all. 

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Busted knee or not, so what? A two-time Russian World champ beat him. It's not like some scrub snakes him out of nowhere. Tsargush is a bad mofo and got JB that day. No shame in that.

Agreed.  that was some of my point.  

Edited by Fishhook

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I can definitely agree that more work in tie-up situations will help JB. But that was the case even when he was being talked about as an all-time world great. I am just loathe to use it as the reason for his loss. JB beat the same guy last year with the exact same skill set. The guy made some tactical adjustments and showed up today, while JB did not.

 

B. Saitiev could've benefitted from an outside shot.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Cletus, after a tough day for USA Wrestling, it's always nice to come here and hear your thoughts.

 

Thank you. 

 

What did you think of Daniel Dennis? 

 

 

I didn't want to be a downer and talk about Dennis prior to the match, but I think we all have seen what Iowa is capable of on the big stage.    They have figured out the domestic guys and routinely push guys through but when they get there, they get exposed, terribly.   My hat is off to Brent and all he did, given what he was working with.   No comment further on him.   I just love that guy.  But Ramos?    Ramos?   Has he landed yet from the abusing laid to him by the Cuban?    And Dennis?   Man oh man.      

 

Big Brent and Ramos fan here, so you're bot ever going to hear me disparage them, but if we're being honest here, Iowa has really stunk up the international mat, on the very biggest stage.   What did I think about Dennis?   I'm only surprised it went as long as it did.    I'd like to see the Cornell kid out there getting some wins fr Team USA.   Perhaps next year.     

 

Now Iowa looks to be getting the kid Lee who is very good international style, up to 110 pounds.   Lets hope he doesn't also perform like the usual suspects out of Iowa City, if he makes it to the biggest stage.    

 

Shiraz, you';re one of the sensible ones on this board.   Few and far between.   I'm going to log out for a while.   Not a good day today.     

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How Iowa is relevant to a thread titled "74 kg discussion" is beyond me, but I am 100% sure Iowa had nothing to do with JB getting his ass handed to him today.

i know that Oklohoma and Nebraska have good wrestler at the 74, Iowa - Isaiah Martinez??? he's good, won rematch this year 

 

IMar_Illinois_NCAA_Champ.jpg

Edited by Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin

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How Iowa is relevant to a thread titled "74 kg discussion" is beyond me, but I am 100% sure Iowa had nothing to do with JB getting his ass handed to him today.

 

No I lay all the blame on Kevin Jackson and the stellar job he has been doing at Iowa State..... Scratch that Tom Minkel's departure from MSU obviously got into JB's head.

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I know Burroughs has indicated he will compete until 2020 in the past, but we need to hope he doesn't leave his shoes on the mat today.  

I would be absolutely shocked if the Champ went out that way. 

We might see him start coaching earlier to support his family, but I can't believe he'd hang it up on such a low note. 

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