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They didn't come out of nowhere like Bolt this year and dominate. His only close matches all year were to Varner and Snyder and he was doing back flips after the matches were over. Had all the stamina in the world! He was gassed near the end of the 1st period in Rio. That is classic when you get off the juice and try to compete at the same level. Listen I don't know but dang it looked like it from being in this sport for over 30 years and seeing it before. I am not saying all Russians but Bolt stood out big time. And I do not have any love for him the way he stood over Varner and fist pumped in his face in the Yarigan finals. Sorry in my opinion I think he was a cheater  and he got what he deserved. Props to Gatsalov who obviously was declining and injured near the end of the year-he could have gotten on the juice for one last run but did not. He teched Gatsalov with ease and comes to Rio and can not stay on his cycles because of the new testing and gets whooped by a 2nd tier, maybe lower 1st tier guy and can not even walk after the match?   

Edited by PRyan2012

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They didn't come out of nowhere like Bolt this year and dominate. His only close matches all year were to Varner and Snyder and he was doing back flips after the matches were over. Had all the stamina in the world! He was gassed near the end of the 1st period in Rio. That is classic when you get off the juice and try to compete at the same level. Listen I don't know but dang it looked like it from being in this sport for over 30 years and seeing it before. I am not saying all Russians but Bolt stood out big time. And I do not have any love for him the way he stood over Varner and fist pumped in his face in the Yarigan finals. Sorry in my opinion I think he was a cheater you got what he deserved. Props to Gatsalov who obviously was declining and injured near the end of the year-he could have gotten on the juice for one last run but did not. He teched Gatsalov with ease and comes to Rio and can not stay on his cycles because of the new testing and gets whooped by a 2nd tier, maybe lower 1st tier guy and can not even walk after the match?   

I think the counterargument is that if BOlt quit doing the juice, and you think he is and the others are, why would Ramonov and Sabdulaev keep doing it?  Still, its hard not to think he was doing SOMETHING to get him past Gad and Gatsolov.  I wish Gatsalov would have been there. His rivalry with Guzamov and for Kyle to dethrone an even greater great than Guz, who is still GREAT. 

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So if you go with the juicing theory, how do you explain Ramonov and Sadulaev who looked great? I mean are they more naturally physically gifted to start and therefore less impacted by going off the juice? Were they never on the juice?

Sadulaev is still a young buck he still has the capacity to be naturally strong and with great conditioning. We all know how age impacts our physical attributes. Isn't bolt around 30 years old. Not saying every older athlete who does well is on roids, everyone is built differently. How old is romanov? That's a pretty flawed counterargument.

 

We think he could've been juicing.

 

How about his teammates then are they juicing since they did well?

 

It doesn't work like that man.

 

Its not like we're pulling this out of thin air. He physically looked different and performed at a much lower level than we are used to seeing.

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Let me clarify again my argument is my opinion based on experience with wrestlers and weight lifters on and off PEDs over my 30 years in this sport. Bolt was a classic older guy that was top 3-5 in Russia for years like Saidov before him. They wanted to get to the next level and were really good. Well it

worked for Saidov we know for sure as he moved from 5th in the country to taking out Gatsalov then gets busted. The new testing in Rio made it impossible almost to hide from what I hear. I don't know for

sure and maybe it was the flu like some have said. They should have sent Gatsalov in my opinion-classy

guy!

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Let me clarify again my argument is my opinion based on experience with wrestlers and weight lifters on and off PEDs over my 30 years in this sport. Bolt was a classic older guy that was top 3-5 in Russia for years like Saidov before him. They wanted to get to the next level and were really good. Well it

worked for Saidov we know for sure as he moved from 5th in the country to taking out Gatsalov then gets busted. The new testing in Rio made it impossible almost to hide from what I hear. I don't know for

sure and maybe it was the flu like some have said. They should have sent Gatsalov in my opinion-classy

guy!

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Trust me if you were from the middle east you would know how people from Azerbaijan are. Super racist even though 80% of their wrestlers are from Russia, Iran, Eastern Europe. And that is just the start of it I don't want to say too much. Regardless the punishment of removing them is nothing to them. 

 

You should probably lay off the crack pipe. It is already turning your brains into mush

 

But please don't stop there. Tell us more about super racists Azeris. I love listening to random ramblings of persian douchebags on the internet :)

Edited by Karelin

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They didn't come out of nowhere like Bolt this year and dominate. His only close matches all year were to Varner and Snyder and he was doing back flips after the matches were over. Had all the stamina in the world! He was gassed near the end of the 1st period in Rio. That is classic when you get off the juice and try to compete at the same level. Listen I don't know but dang it looked like it from being in this sport for over 30 years and seeing it before. I am not saying all Russians but Bolt stood out big time. And I do not have any love for him the way he stood over Varner and fist pumped in his face in the Yarigan finals. Sorry in my opinion I think he was a cheater  and he got what he deserved. Props to Gatsalov who obviously was declining and injured near the end of the year-he could have gotten on the juice for one last run but did not. He teched Gatsalov with ease and comes to Rio and can not stay on his cycles because of the new testing and gets whooped by a 2nd tier, maybe lower 1st tier guy and can not even walk after the match?   

 

 

The biggest drop off I saw was Boltukaev and Burroughs.    

 

It wouldn't surprise me if PED's was the culprit.  I heard Bolt was poisoned and Burroughs had a bad day.    Who knows what the truth is?

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ya bolt was poisoned, JB lost cause people know his technique already....

Geduev beating Burroughs is completely reasonable. They are very evenly matched.

 

Burroughs next match was not simply the other guy being a better wrestler. Something was up. It could've been mental for sure after that loss, but JB should beat that guy 10/10

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Geduev beating Burroughs is completely reasonable. They are very evenly matched.

 

Burroughs next match was not simply the other guy being a better wrestler. Something was up. It could've been mental for sure after that loss, but JB should beat that guy 10/10

 

Yeah, JB already beat Abdurakhmanov a few months before.

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The biggest drop off I saw was Boltukaev and Burroughs.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if PED's was the culprit. I heard Bolt was poisoned and Burroughs had a bad day. Who knows what the truth is?

With that much money and his legacy on the line, do you think Burroughs could have been using PED's leading up to the Olympics?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Up till this thread I had never heard anyone breathe a word about JB and PEDs, I think it's appalling to start talking that way. JB has been wrestling at 74kg his whole international career and except for his leap to stardom out of college didn't exhibit any especially notably upticks in size or strength. His ability to win seemed to come from those factors which are least related to what PEDs can do for you. He had tremendous speed and timing and unbelievable technique. I think it's insane to think that he went off PEDs for this Olympics and that's why he lost a close match to Geduev. How about Geduev is really good, JB was never that much ahead of him and that's that?

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Up till this thread I had never heard anyone breathe a word about JB and PEDs, I think it's appalling to start talking that way. JB has been wrestling at 74kg his whole international career and except for his leap to stardom out of college didn't exhibit any especially notably upticks in size or strength. His ability to win seemed to come from those factors which are least related to what PEDs can do for you. He had tremendous speed and timing and unbelievable technique. I think it's insane to think that he went off PEDs for this Olympics and that's why he lost a close match to Geduev. How about Geduev is really good, JB was never that much ahead of him and that's that?

I have no clue whether JB has used PEDs but I think you have no clue what PEDs can do.

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I have no clue whether JB has used PEDs but I think you have no clue what PEDs can do.

I generally agree with you but you don't get quicker (from a reaction time perspective) with PEDs, which I consider one of JB's key physical edges. JB's power, strength, and conditioning can all be enhanced very substantially through exogenous chemicals, though, no doubt about that whatsoever.

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Well, until such time there is a credible report or information, or JB tests positive for PED's, I am of the opinion that he, or any of our guys are using, or ever had used PED's. I think with the advances made in the testing, would make it very unwise. I also don't look at any of our guys, ( on our National team ), and for a moment consider that they are cheaters. Yes I know someone will jump up and say well what about this guy, and that guy, say what you want, but my opinion is still the same.

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All of our wrestlers get randomly tested on a regular basis.  JB talked about it in an interview w/ CP & Willie on Flo not to long before the Olympics.  He spoke about how the testing guys will show up w/ no notice and you have to be available to give a urine sample. He told a story of how one time he was locked out of his apartment when the testing guy came so he ended up in a Panera Bread bathroom stall w/ the guy watching him give the urine sample.  PED use can definitely be controlled with the right system of checks in place if those running the system are intent on catching any cheaters.

Edited by lu1979

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With that much money and his legacy on the line, do you think Burroughs could have been using PED's leading up to the Olympics?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

One might argue, he did not use PED's at the Olympics, because as you state,  there was that much money on the line.  And that argument may include, we see how he performs when clean.    

 

I wouldn't make the argument, but certainly there's one to be made, if someone wanted to take that position.    I think the really remarkable thing about Burroughs, is how following a devastating knee injury in college, he comes right back BETTER than ever.   Like if he never had the injury.  He develops the best double leg in the world, and it's not even close, and he does this post injury.    

 

If Burroughs was going to be accused of PED's, that time frame would be when one would probably do it.    Another poster mentioned, we didn't see much increase in size, strength or speed, during his international career.   And that's true.   We saw it immediately following his knee injury back in college, and then he simply maintained it.   Until Last month.   Then it all seemed to go away.    Right when all the money was on the line, and none of us (not me at least) believe he would have risked getting popped, by using PED's.   

 

Was he on PED's leading up to Rio?   I don't know.   

 

I do believe we saw a clean JB in Rio.   I have no suspicion at all that he was dirty.  His performance just did not appear   enhanced, that's all I have to go on.   Just my opinion, but that's only formulated from the side lines.    I have no special  insight.   

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