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Junior Worlds

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Flo has both Junior and Cadets worlds...

 

*que whining about bad flo is*

 

In this case I might be on the whiners side. As of a week ago it would have been a totally free livestream (maybe on YouTube) and archived on the UWW site. Flo is essentially competing against nobody to buy the rights and hoard the content behind a paywall. 

 

I'm not sure if the practice of shipping matches over to the USA Wrestling YouTube Channel is over or not. Since the Olympic Qualifier last December there has been very little content available. No Juniors from Vegas, Olympic Last Chance Qualifier, UWW World Team Trials, Beat The Streets. The common denominator seems to be the performances of athletes such as Mark Hall and Daton Fix. 

 

I enjoy Flo but it is hard to build a sport behind a paywall. They have done really well creating Facebook content but have pretty much a zero presence on YouTube. They do a good job of creating content for the existing fanbase of wrestling but in today's market YouTube is an essential part of growth for pretty much anything you want to try to sell to new fans.

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you're all over the place. you start with one point and when refuted, move on to another.

 

the latest - Dhesi pronounced incorrectly - was because he was literally entered in the tournament as 'Phesi'. and it was one of the first times he had ever wrestled in america. not all our guys knew him. so i'll save you the suspense - if you think we're going to pronounce every name right at an international tournament, we're not. and it has nothing to do with bias, but rather, familiarity. hell, i still slip up with 'Brascetta' and 'Assad'.

 

and as far as 'pressured or alienated' i have no idea what you mean. who is applying pressure to canadians to sign up for flo pro? 

 

lol.

 

it's not a big thing. you either want to watch your wrestlers live at 2 international tournaments for $20 or you don't. but i promise you there's no anti-canadian bias. that's just silly.

 

if we had the rights in Russia, or Italy, or Poland or Iran would their fans say the same thing?

 

and why didn't you complain during pan ams?

 

A couple things:

 

1) You haven't really refuted anything. You've said people pay or they don't. Well, yeah.

 

2) I know plenty of people who do the research before the tournament to ensure the info is correct. In the case of the Phesi incident, the worst line was actually "Oh yeah, I've heard of this kid," while not knowing what his actual name was. Based on the number of US coaches who contacted me after the tournament (not knowing he was already committed to Oregon), no one other than Jim knew who he was.

 

3) I'm not saying the bias is anti-Canadian, I'm saying it's pro-American, leading to lacklustre research and execution on the webcasts as the overall US market concerns itself largely with the US wrestlers. It makes sense from the standpoint of that market.

 

4) I would have no problem if every country had to pay, as it is then on equal footing. I'd actually prefer it. Is the International stream going to be the exact same as the North American stream in every way? If so, I'm paying for a product that millions get for free with no added benefit. If you handed out 50000 free diet cokes, but charged me $5 because I lived nearby, I'd probably settle for water. What is essentially happening is you are saying that the Canadian money is good enough to take but the market isn't big enough to focus on in any other way.

 

5) To be honest, I'm pretty sure I watched pan-ams on Livestream.

 

The heart of the matter is it doesn't make sense to ONLY include Canada under the paywall. Either include Mexico and the Islands to make it a truly North American regional contract or charge everyone. As paying customers (which I am), people can then suggest ways to make your product more valuable to new markets.

Edited by 49northwrestling

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In this case I might be on the whiners side. As of a week ago it would have been a totally free livestream (maybe on YouTube) and archived on the UWW site. Flo is essentially competing against nobody to buy the rights and hoard the content behind a paywall. 

 

I'm not sure if the practice of shipping matches over to the USA Wrestling YouTube Channel is over or not. Since the Olympic Qualifier last December there has been very little content available. No Juniors from Vegas, Olympic Last Chance Qualifier, UWW World Team Trials, Beat The Streets. The common denominator seems to be the performances of athletes such as Mark Hall and Daton Fix. 

 

I enjoy Flo but it is hard to build a sport behind a paywall. They have done really well creating Facebook content but have pretty much a zero presence on YouTube. They do a good job of creating content for the existing fanbase of wrestling but in today's market YouTube is an essential part of growth for pretty much anything you want to try to sell to new fans.

The sign of a successful sport is that people are willing to pay money to see the events.  Flo streaming and making people pay for junior worlds is a good thing because it shows that there is value in the sport of wrestling.  Also, having an American media company line the pockets of UWW is good in other ways because they will build influence.  

 

Think about this hypothetical scenario:  10 years from now Flo is one of the main sources of income of UWW (behind the IOC).  They say to UWW:  We like paying you millions of dollars for your content, but our subscribers don't like the corruption among the officiating.  Do something about it or we will stop paying you.  

 

With that said, I was a huge fan of how they used to post matches online a week or two after the event was over for non subscribers (i.e. middle, high school wrestlers) to watch, enjoy, and learn from.  It's important to have avenues to keep the sport growing among the younger wrestlers.  That doesn't seem to be happening anymore (maybe it will for these UWW world tournaments), where now most content is staying behind the wall indefinitely.  It's their decision, since they pay for the content/put int he capital to stream.  Maybe once they have a steadier subscriber base, and get the last holdouts to pay, they will probably be more willing to go back to their roots in that regard.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I hate it when HBO hordes all the good TV shows and hides them behind a paywall. tough to build a fan base that enjoys dragons and swords and naked women without putting it all on youtube for free.

Here's my beef, it ain't with Flo they are just trying to pay off Willie's gambling debt (never bet against David Taylor at the Spanish Grand Prix!). My beef is with the masses of wrestling fans here in the US who have no idea how to wield the forces of technology in their favor. Christ, how difficult is it to look up how to spoof an IP address? Most people who piss and moan about the cost of HBO have figured out alternative means to view Game of Thrones without the price of an HBOGo/Now account. For those who are complaining about the cost of FloPro, please just figure out a different means to view the matches, I am sure there are work arounds... just put your thinking caps on.

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A couple things:

 

1) You haven't really refuted anything. You've said people pay or they don't. Well, yeah.

 

2) I know plenty of people who do the research before the tournament to ensure the info is correct. In the case of the Phesi incident, the worst line was actually "Oh yeah, I've heard of this kid," while not knowing what his actual name was. Based on the number of US coaches who contacted me after the tournament (not knowing he was already committed to Oregon), no one other than Jim knew who he was.

 

3) I'm not saying the bias is anti-Canadian, I'm saying it's pro-American, leading to lacklustre research and execution on the webcasts as the overall US market concerns itself largely with the US wrestlers. It makes sense from the standpoint of that market.

 

4) I would have no problem if every country had to pay, as it is then on equal footing. I'd actually prefer it. Is the International stream going to be the exact same as the North American stream in every way? If so, I'm paying for a product that millions get for free with no added benefit. If you handed out 50000 free diet cokes, but charged me $5 because I lived nearby, I'd probably settle for water. What is essentially happening is you are saying that the Canadian money is good enough to take but the market isn't big enough to focus on in any other way.

 

5) To be honest, I'm pretty sure I watched pan-ams on Livestream.

 

The heart of the matter is it doesn't make sense to ONLY include Canada under the paywall. Either include Mexico and the Islands to make it a truly North American regional contract or charge everyone. As paying customers (which I am), people can then suggest ways to make your product more valuable to new markets.

 

2. eye roll. i told you what happened. I very much knew of Dhesi. i had a long talk w/ kevin roberts about him 4 months before that tournament. he was listed as Phesi in the registration system so that's what i went with on air. citing one instance of a wrong consonant is nit-picky and stupid.

 

3. eye roll. lackluster? seriously. name one outlet that does it better and more comprehensively.

 

5) no. you didn't. unless you skirted the system. we had usa/canadian rights for both pan ams.

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2. eye roll. i told you what happened. I very much knew of Dhesi. i had a long talk w/ kevin roberts about him 4 months before that tournament. he was listed as Phesi in the registration system so that's what i went with on air. citing one instance of a wrong consonant is nit-picky and stupid.

 

3. eye roll. lackluster? seriously. name one outlet that does it better and more comprehensively.

 

5) no. you didn't. unless you skirted the system. we had usa/canadian rights for both pan ams.

 

3. I think his lackluster comment is from a Canadian point-of-view. If 49North was from the US I would consider it a troll comment and move on, but that ain't the case. As I previously mentioned there is merit in 49North's complaints. Whether Flo takes that seriously is up to you all.

 

5. 49North probably skirted the system.... It ain't too difficult, luckily for Flo a very large segment of wrestling fans in the US have grandma level computer skills.

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Thank you. Guess we didn't do too great today.

all 4 guys won matches. 2 made it to the semis and will be wrestling for bronze (Hancock & Lamont). I think all 4 guys will end up in the top 10 of the final results. I'd call that pretty good. It's not like the USA has been a greco powerhouse lately. 

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all 4 guys won matches. 2 made it to the semis and will be wrestling for bronze (Hancock & Lamont). I think all 4 guys will end up in the top 10 of the final results. I'd call that pretty good. It's not like the USA has been a greco powerhouse lately. 

 

What's the deal with no forced parterre? Is that only applied in the senior level?

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2. eye roll. i told you what happened. I very much knew of Dhesi. i had a long talk w/ kevin roberts about him 4 months before that tournament. he was listed as Phesi in the registration system so that's what i went with on air. citing one instance of a wrong consonant is nit-picky and stupid.

 

3. eye roll. lackluster? seriously. name one outlet that does it better and more comprehensively.

 

5) no. you didn't. unless you skirted the system. we had usa/canadian rights for both pan ams.

 

I can name a non-Flo American that does commentary at events and goes to almost obscene levels, often weeks in advance, to ensure he knows all the individuals and a bit about their story. Flo is starting to up their international Free/Greco coverage, so perhaps that will also improve. I'm not saying it's horrible all the time, but I have put Flo commentary on mute before and I know others who have as well.

 

Believe it or not, Flo isn't the first site I go to for all my wrestling news. In fact, I often go to Wrestling Canada Lutte and it's staff to get info relevant to my market. And in this case, WCL had NO IDEA (which I confirmed last night) that streaming of Pan Ams and Worlds was through a PPV service on Flo. Neither Flo or UWW thought to include them in the process or even let them know. So in the case of Pan Ams, I was likely linked to Livestream and when it said "Content Not Available In Your Region," I probably said "That's odd, here let me click this box by the address bar" and it magically worked.

 

As I've mentioned numerous times, I pay for Flo Pro and I, for the most part, enjoy it. However, I live in a place that couldn't care less about folkstyle, outside of a handful of people, so much of the added benefit of the system doesn't hold the same value as it would to an American viewer. I don't really care if you formulate my suggestions into anything meaningful or not, that's your choice, but as you expand out of the US, you will face these challenges. Flo seems to have a decent relationship with USA Wrestling, so creating similar relationships with the other paying federations would be a good start. Like I said, WCL had no knowledge that worlds was PPV in Canada, thus didn't report that info to its members. Seems like marketing that fact would have helped Flo.

Edited by 49northwrestling

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