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I think part of the "problem" has been Minnesota wrestlers have done well at the strong Big10 which gives them seeds at NCAA's possibly higher than they deserve. CP Schlatter is a good example of a guy that won a few Big10 championships but didn't follow it up at NCAAs. Beats the season #1 Poeta at Big10's then falls to him in the quarters. Talk about a crappy seed for Poeta, but it worked out for him.

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saying that Brands is now wrestling a Brands team and not the leftovers from VT or Zalesky is kind of misleading. Brands recruited the guys that went to and then followed him back from Virginia Tech. They weren't guys that Z brought in.

 

You could say that last seasons team was an All Brands team.

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I think part of the "problem" has been Minnesota wrestlers have done well at the strong Big10 which gives them seeds at NCAA's possibly higher than they deserve. CP Schlatter is a good example of a guy that won a few Big10 championships but didn't follow it up at NCAAs. Beats the season #1 Poeta at Big10's then falls to him in the quarters. Talk about a crappy seed for Poeta, but it worked out for him.

Minnesota's a pretty boring team - I don't even know why Headshuck bothers to support them...

 

b1bc0042133da472a99e2aec0305b5c7.jpg

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Minnesota was decimated with injuries in 2008. Hard to take anything from that tournament.

 

 

If a guy is seeded 2nd and falls to 5th or 6th... I just can't automatically call that a choke. Many of the weight classes have been so deep the past few years. Injuries, a lucky break here or there, or a bad call seem to decide many of these brackets. If we wrestled the National tournament again the following weekend would we end up with the same placements? In some cases yes, but in most cases no.

 

I also feel like it is very hard to run the table at some of these weights. If two Big Ten wrestlers meet 3-4 times in a season. Wrestler A defeats wrester B at National Duals, Big Ten Duals, and at Big Tens in close matches. Wrestler A then enters NCAAs as the # 1 seed, and loses an overtime match in the semis to wrestler B. Wrestler B goes on to win the title. Wrestler A has a hard time mentally dealing with the loss from the night before, loses some close matches, and falls to 5th the next day. Is this a choke? Did he under perform? Is that a sign of a coach that did not have his team ready? Unfortunately we tend to label wrestler A's season as a failure. When in reality most of us can only dream about a season like that.

 

Should be an exciting season. Lots of teams in the hunt.

 

I have to agree 7 AA s should take it. Iowa has a ton of upside. I would not count them out.

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saying that Brands is now wrestling a Brands team and not the leftovers from VT or Zalesky is kind of misleading. Brands recruited the guys that went to and then followed him back from Virginia Tech. They weren't guys that Z brought in.

 

You could say that last seasons team was an All Brands team.

 

-------

 

And I'm sure Wire can't wait for 2 years to pass, to see how Cael does with a true "Cael" team.

 

;-)

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Guest Hammerlock3
saying that Brands is now wrestling a Brands team and not the leftovers from VT or Zalesky is kind of misleading. Brands recruited the guys that went to and then followed him back from Virginia Tech. They weren't guys that Z brought in.

 

You could say that last seasons team was an All Brands team.

 

 

no you cant, not even close, remember Ryan morningstAR? the guy who won the ncaa tourney for iowa two years ago? or Dan Dennis? These are Z (/hartung guys)(gulp). Phil Keddy? Erekson (the other guy who won the NCAA tourney for Iowa)

 

I don't give any credence to the Z's guys/two recruiting class argument against brands, its BS, but don't just make stuff up

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder they won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, at least by their standards, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, rarely beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten. They will not win a team title for at least a few years, and it may get progressively worse for 1-3 years, then an even further slide.

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

 

---------------

 

wow... impressive diatribe for your first post, donnie. Perhaps you've posted here before?

 

You state Moore "never beat a ranked opponent." You are wrong. Moore did beat 2 ranked opponents last year - Sentes of CMU and Fisk of Lehigh.

 

Most of Moore's losses last year were to ranked opponents and they were close. Those included D2 runnerup Garcia, and ranked D1 opponents Bell, Fanthorpe (twice - one loss by dec, one in SV), Hochstrasser (lost in SV) and two quality opponents in Tyler Clark (OT loss) and Hutter.

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saying that Brands is now wrestling a Brands team and not the leftovers from VT or Zalesky is kind of misleading. Brands recruited the guys that went to and then followed him back from Virginia Tech. They weren't guys that Z brought in.

 

You could say that last seasons team was an All Brands team.

 

 

no you cant, not even close, remember Ryan morningstAR? the guy who won the ncaa tourney for iowa two years ago? or Dan Dennis? These are Z (/hartung guys)(gulp). Phil Keddy? Erekson (the other guy who won the NCAA tourney for Iowa)

 

I don't give any credence to the Z's guys/two recruiting class argument against brands, its BS, but don't just make stuff up

 

 

brycemus .... What I was trying to say was a "Total 100%" Brand's team. From conception, recruiting, signing, RS'ing etc .. to finish. Totally his and his Staff's effort, and organization. I'm not going to rehash the whole thing with you.

 

Cael is in a similar situation... as he has leftovers as well. Got 'rid of one to ASU .... And has a few years to go, to be 100% Cael's team. He actively recruited/supported one (1) wrestler from the ISU team ... His younger brother. And Cael had one (I think) recruit switch to PSU on his own volition.

 

As a side note: I understand your reading skills are a bit compromised ... In that post, I "suggested" that he's got a bunch of studs, that might do very well.

 

"Actually, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this group of wrestlers do. This is 100% Brand's team now. No VT members, just pure Tom Brand's recruits. Kinda like Coach Z. went through. Not knocking Brand's in any way. I'm just anxious to see how the guys do. It's a young bunch, and if indeed they are in or around the top 5 at the NCAA's, that would be a very impressive performance.... With good things to come in the next year. They are "reloading" IMO."

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

 

Unsuccessful-Troll-Is-Unsuccessful-499x416.jpg

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

 

Unsuccessful-Troll-Is-Unsuccessful-499x416.jpg

 

 

You think that's trolling? I think this one might actually be coming from a concerned Iowa fan. It's got more of a cold, hard reality tone to it. I could be wrong.

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

Weak? I would not call a team that is ranked at every single weight weak. They are weaker than the last three years, but they are also a lot younger. Ballweg may not AA & Carew is now out for the year, but the rest are really legitimate threats to AA. The thing is with MN, Iowa, OK St., & the other best teams in the nation is that they improve throughout the year. Guys who were ranked 20th at the beginning of the season are magically ranked 10th prior to nationals.

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

Weak? I would not call a team that is ranked at every single weight weak. They are weaker than the last three years, but they are also a lot younger. Ballweg may not AA & Carew is now out for the year, but the rest are really legitimate threats to AA. The thing is with MN, Iowa, OK St., & the other best teams in the nation is that they improve throughout the year. Guys who were ranked 20th at the beginning of the season are magically ranked 10th prior to nationals.

Some people might remember who Matt McDonough is. I mean, he was only a Freshman National Champion. He started the year barely ranked in the top 20 last year. Give these young kids a chance to develop and they might surprise people.

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The fact is that Brands inherited a stellar group of wrestlers from Zalesky, including Falck, Dennis, Tsirtsis, Morningstar, Luedke, Perry, Keddy, Beatty, Fields and Erickson. Add to this the fact that he was able to "double-dip" with Borschel, Slaton, LeClere and Metcalf and it is no wonder thay won 3 straight. Some say it was his coaching that "improved " Zalesky's wrestlers, but people do improve with time, and the fact that older, better wrestlers graduate ahead of them. Slaton had one good year, LeClere was a dud and Borschel AA'd only twice. Without Zalesky's recruits, Iowa would have won zero NCAA team titles. This appears to be a weak team this year for Iowa, with only McDonough highly ranked, and huge holes at 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and 285. Early season results are so-so. I believe Brands will become VERY frustrated this year. At 133, the highly regarded Nate Moore has been thrown twice already, and I think was something like 12-7 last year, never beating a ranked wrestler. I do not like or dislike their program, but they are in for rough times, and I do not believe they have the "upside potential" that some think they do. They are not at the national duals because Brands knows they would be badly beaten.

Complete FAIL! Your post is not based on any fact except for what you have made yourself believe. The FACTS are that Iowa did receive the advantage of having basically 2 recruiting classes, but what you fail to acknowledge is that they still had to spread the scholarship money around when they had them, most of those guys were "IOWA" guys and would have either come to Iowa anyways out of high school or Brands would have recruited somebody to beat them if he was at Iowa the whole time, and im not sure what you think huge holes are, but last i checked Iowa has guys ranked at almost all the weights you state are huge holes.

You have already been called out on the Moore comments, so you have no credibility here. And, thanks for letting us all know why Brands is not going to National Duals, we were all wondering and it seems that you have spoke to him and we now have a concrete answer.

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I am neither a Hawk fan nor a Hawk hater. Sorry I was partially wrong on Moore, but he is not the super wrestler many think he is. Add up the NCAA points of Zalesky's wrestlers and you will see Iowa would have won no NCAA team titles without them. They will do poorly this year, and Brands stated publicly they will not be at the duals. I know many Hawk fans that tell me privately they are more than a little concerned this year. We will see who is right as the year progresses.

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I am neither a Hawk fan nor a Hawk hater. Sorry I was partially wrong on Moore, but he is not the super wrestler many think he is. Add up the NCAA points of Zalesky's wrestlers and you will see Iowa would have won no NCAA team titles without them. They will do poorly this year, and Brands stated publicly they will not be at the duals. I know many Hawk fans that tell me privately they are more than a little concerned this year. We will see who is right as the year progresses.

 

You fail to factor in the scholarship money that would have been freed up without Zalesky's wrestlers. Brands has proven that he can recuit with the best of them and the lineup would have been filled with other top quality wrestlers.

 

As far as the holes in the lineup that you referenced, why don't we get real here. If a team like Mizzu, Ill, or Northwestern had Iowa's current lineup and the #1 recruiting waiting in the wings people would be lauding how they will be the next big thing.

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I am neither a Hawk fan nor a Hawk hater. Sorry I was partially wrong on Moore, but he is not the super wrestler many think he is. Add up the NCAA points of Zalesky's wrestlers and you will see Iowa would have won no NCAA team titles without them. They will do poorly this year, and Brands stated publicly they will not be at the duals. I know many Hawk fans that tell me privately they are more than a little concerned this year. We will see who is right as the year progresses.
\

 

Define poorly?

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The thing everyone seems to forget about when they talk about "Zalesky's wrestlers" on those teams is that Brands is the one who developed them and actually got something out of them. Remember when Morningstar was considered the weak link in Iowa's lineup? I remember one Kentucky Mudflap post that said something to the effect of Morningstar being so weak a strong fart could knock him over (dont remember exactly how the great Flap worded it, but it was along those lines). After a couple years with Brands, Morningstar became a 2x AA and played a huge role in a couple national titles. Did anyone know who Chad Beatty or Dan Erekson were before Brands? He bulked them up to 197 and HVY and turned them into pretty good wrestlers. So to say he inherited Z's wrestlers is a little misleading, I would say he took what he had and developed them into something. Also, lets be fair, he recruited Metcalf, Borschel, Slaton, etc; its not like they were John Smith or Cael Sanderson's recruits and he stole them to Iowa. They were his wrestlers for 5 seasons.

 

It has been said before, but before you count out this years Iowa team, all you need to do is look at McDonough from last year. Barely on anyones radar to start the year, and look how that turned out. Look at kids you had barely heard of like Dennis and Marion, look at the wrestlers I mentioned above. Brands can develop wrestlers, period. Just because we arent as familiar with most names in this years lineup or because they havent proven themselves yet doesnt mean they wont have a good or even great season. McDonough hadnt proven anything by Nov 26th last year either.

 

All that being said, I dont know if I would pick Iowa to win it all this year, or the Big 10, or even have a podium finish, but I wouldnt be shocked if it happened either.

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"It has been said before, but before you count out this years Iowa team, all you need to do is look at McDonough from last year. Barely on anyones radar to start the year, and look how that turned out."

If you guys recall .... McBono was not on the radar nor ranked, until he dropped to 125# ... He had been projected at 133# in the pre-season. Even the Iowa faithful were surprised the kid dropped , and not only made it, he held the weight very, very well the whole season, The kid is the POSTER CHILD for how to cut down, and stay down.I'm surprised he's still down there this year. The kid is a stud, when it comes to weight management.

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