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Can Burroughs be Unseated in the US?

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I'd add a third possibility: He wasn't wrestling for a medal, he was wrestling for a larger place in history -- and that big-picture pressure took him out of the moment just enough to contribute to the first loss. That's based on his interview after the second match.

More than than... He was wrestling for $525,000 (Op Gold & LTD fund), plus all of the mainstream (non-wrestling) endorsements that would have been coming. That is what I believe he meant by saying that he failed his family.

 

 

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Edited by lu_alum

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I think I agree with Wrestling Nerd, NewYorkWrestler and Old Glory, about what may have caused JB to have a less than stellar performance at Rio. Which got me to thinking, what if JB got so distracted by all these commitments, and appearances, that he just lost focus on his training and the intensity needed to stay on top of the mountain. If so, I hope the brain trust of USA Wrestling shields our current crop of stars from being blinded by the bright lights and perhaps losing their way.

As far as JB is concerned, I wrote this in another thread somewhere but I'll say it again, I believe JB will take a little bit of time and do some reflecting, and depending on that outcome, this will determine the course of his actions. If JB decides that he still wants it, and has enough fire in him to propel him back to the top, I think he will succeed. As much as I like the other stars at 74 Kg. I just think JB has to much going for him at the moment, ( even with his performance in Rio ), to be toppled this upcoming year.

We may learn some more here in the next few months, most likely by a Twitter statement issued by JB or some other type of statement issued by USA Wrestling, or Flo, or some of the other wrestling media. Or we may simple see JB entering into some of these international tourneys like Yarygin and others, and based on that we should be able to get a sense of what the future holds for JB.

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More than than... He was wrestling for $525,000 (Op Gold & LTD fund), plus all of the mainstream (non-wrestling) endorsements that would have been coming. That is what I believe he meant by saying that he failed his family.

Not to mention he likely felt bad that he didn't even have anything to show for the time he spent training and away from them competing over the last cycle.

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I stumbled upon this video today, but had completely forgotten it took place: 

 

I think it was just a matter of Russia having so much tape on JB by now that they figured out how to slow him down. I also think that Abdurhamanov took advantage of a JB that was just mentally out of it. Bekzod is no joke, obviously, which allowed him to beat JB when he was most vulnerable. It happens, but it's not the end of the world.

 

As to JB being bumped off the team in national competition, I just can't see it happening in the near future. I like Dake giving him a run, but as many others have mentioned here, those injuries are going to make coming back that much more difficult for him when he finally does return.

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Does that Geduev look much softer than the Olympic version or am I imagining things?

 

I'd have to guess yes, in that Geduev declared before his finals match that he is moving up to 86 kilos from now on. The cut down to 74 probably wasn't as bad for him back in 2011.

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Not to mention he likely felt bad that he didn't even have anything to show for the time he spent training and away from them competing over the last cycle.

 

Well he did win 2 world titles worth 50k each and he had a bunch of endorsements.  So it wasn't all for naught.  

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will be intersting to see who takes over 74 for russia. Tsabolov? gazimagomedov? gadhzimagomedov? sanakoev? sidakov? Kasumov? does tsargush get hungry again? 

 

Russia's depth never fails to blow my mind.  I just want to see 1 world championship in my life where we suspend the single country rep system.

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I don't think JB failed because he was scouted more efficiently. It's more likely he just had a bad day, like someone else suggested. I noticed he wasn't wrestling like he usually does. More than once he had the perfect chance to hit his reshot, but opted not to. On a different occasion, Geduev would have ended in the stands.

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I have to agree with him just wrestling poorly and Geduev hitting on all cylinders while being jacked as hell.

 

And is it just me or did JB seem tired almost right away? He was sweating profusely, breathing heavily through his mouth, and taking a lot longer to bounce up and go to the middle of the mat.

 

Dake is the one with the best shot here to unseat JB with D-ringer in second (unless Taylor also comes back down but I doubt that).

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until Dake starts wrestling some international competition and winning some matches and showing us that he's healthy, no one should be banking on Dake. Not to mention getting back down to 74. Has Dake come out publicly and stated he's going back down to 74 after seeing JB's weaknesses? 

 

That head butt and gash to his head clearly threw Jordan off his game vs Geduev.

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After Jordan won the 2015 World's in Vegas, even he himself said that he was the oldest of the 2015 MFS champs, and that it's a young man's game now.

 

Have no idea what the JB camp has in mind, but if JB still competes, great, he's one of my favorite wrestlers. (And seriously, I made sure I was able to watch all 3 days of Olympic MFS, and of all the matches, J'den and Kyle included, I couldn't sit down for the JB-Geduev match, even before it started.)..........then the Bekzod match..........looked liked JB was done.

 

Probably not gonna happen, and just keyboarding here, but would love to see JB enter the Yarygin. IMO, it would be the ultimate litmus test whether he's done or not.    (I know, gonna catch some heat for this one too..........   : D )

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Who knows whether JB's done or not, but it's ridiculous to think that his losses signify much of anything. He lost to Geduev who we all knew was going to be a tough match either which way you cut it. He then suffered his worst international defeat ever, which signified next to nothing about his physical gifts. And JB isn't the first returning world champ to lose and not place. Satiev did it in 2000. Mark Schultz didn't place in the 1986 worlds after winning in 1984 and 1985. He went on to win in worlds again in 1987. 

 

If you want ta scenario, o make a case for JB being done, it's that he's twenty-eight now and will be thirty-two in 2020 and that's a long time to continue wrestling and put off developing a coaching career or any other kind of career, especially with a wife and two kids. You can't rule out that he rules out 2020 and as a consequence hangs it up now in order to get on with his life. But that said one would think that he wouldn't just hang it up like that. Rather you'd imagine he takes a year off to think about it - many wrestlers skip a year of competition - and then comes back and loses and then quits.  

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On the merits yes, but US wrestling is too invested in JB's success. He is their golden boy, and he has been protected and coddled. I have always seen JB as a classic frontrunner. He is also a guy who bends the rules to win. (Go look up his match with Jordan Leen). It got exposed in this Olympics. Losing to Geduev was one thing. But should we then overlook how badly he crumbled in losing his next match? Any other athlete would be called out for giving up. Not JB. Something didn't go his way and he imploded, the poster child of US wrestling crapping out, and he is still somehow a hero.

 

Look I saw Dake go through the challenge tournament and the absurd physical disadvantage it creates not seen in any other sport, then outwrestle and beat JB in their first match and he still got screwed. Then to top it off JB did his vintage Leen match whistle jump. It was so ridiculous that Dake went off on an adventure wrestling at 86 against guys like Cox that outweigh him by 20-25 pounds and probable got reinjured because of it. Not that JB has ever had the integrity to call out the process that shielded him. That was never in his DNA as a competitor. The only consolation is that the Russians were paying attention and had a roadmap to dethroning him.     

Edited by straggler

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On the merits yes, but US wrestling is too invested in JB's success. He is their golden boy, and he has been protected and coddled. I have always seen JB as a classic frontrunner. He is also a guy who bends the rules to win. (Go look up his match with Jordan Leen). It got exposed in this Olympics. Losing to Geduev was one thing. But should we then overlook how badly he crumbled in losing his next match? Any other athlete would be called out for giving up. Not JB. Something didn't go his way and he imploded, the poster child of US wrestling crapping out, and he is still somehow a hero.

 

Look I saw Dake go through the challenge tournament and the absurd physical disadvantage it creates not seen in any other sport, then outwrestle and beat JB in their first match and he still got screwed. Then to top it off JB did his vintage Leen match whistle jump. It was so ridiculous that Dake went off on an adventure wrestling at 86 against guys like Cox that outweigh him by 20-25 pounds and probable got reinjured because of it. Not that JB has ever had the integrity to call out the process that shielded him. That was never in his DNA as a competitor. The only consolation is that the Russians were paying attention and had a roadmap to dethroning him.     

What top international tournaments has Dake competed in with high placements, and when were they?  

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On the merits yes, but US wrestling is too invested in JB's success. He is their golden boy, and he has been protected and coddled. I have always seen JB as a classic frontrunner. He is also a guy who bends the rules to win. (Go look up his match with Jordan Leen). It got exposed in this Olympics. Losing to Geduev was one thing. But should we then overlook how badly he crumbled in losing his next match? Any other athlete would be called out for giving up. Not JB. Something didn't go his way and he imploded, the poster child of US wrestling crapping out, and he is still somehow a hero.

 

Look I saw Dake go through the challenge tournament and the absurd physical disadvantage it creates not seen in any other sport, then outwrestle and beat JB in their first match and he still got screwed. Then to top it off JB did his vintage Leen match whistle jump. It was so ridiculous that Dake went off on an adventure wrestling at 86 against guys like Cox that outweigh him by 20-25 pounds and probable got reinjured because of it. Not that JB has ever had the integrity to call out the process that shielded him. That was never in his DNA as a competitor. The only consolation is that the Russians were paying attention and had a roadmap to dethroning him.     

Is this post a joke?  The guy was 12something and 2, all time at the senior level, going into the Olympics.  Is that correct?  He's won, what, 3-4 world titles?  Are you insane?

 

You clearly have some strange, undoubtedly irrational ax to grind with the guy.  Your post is one of the stranger posts I've seen on here, and that is saying something.

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Ah, great, Straggler is back, doing his best to make everyone dislike Kyle Dake with his terrible posts. So nice to have him back. 

First of all I do not hate JB. It is not personal. But I do not have to like him as an athlete. And I certainly do not have to like the absurd US qulaification system. So for you to dislike an athlete because of something posted by a stranger on a message board is very silly.

 

So tell me where I am wrong. JB lost 11-1. I get he was disappointed, but he quit. Period. He suffer adversity and lacked the character to suck it up and medal for the team. I'm not villfying him, but I also do not have to give him a pass for it, especally not when he is the poster child for the whole sport in the US. He lost a close match and then gave up and went home. Call it what you want.

 

Nor do I hold JB responsible for the US qualification system. But he has gone so far as to defend it on the merits, which is incredibly self-serving and something no athlete with any competitive integrity would do.

 

And did I mischaracterize the Leen match? Or shooting before the whistle in the second Dake match?

 

So I'm not a fan. JB will survive.  

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